Islamic Jihad launches Rocket Barrage

[Divair]

Not at all. I argue that the Jews did need a homeland. You don't need to have a social science degree to understand that the Jews in Medieval, Renaissance, Reformation, and Enlightenment-era Europe didn't assimilate for a reason; which is of course, Anti-Semitism. So how would their outlook, after centuries of persecution, change, and they would willingly assimilate into the European cultures in which they've lived parallel to for centuries? They wouldn't have assimilated. Giving them their own homeland was inevitable, in my opinion, because of their unique cultural identity and heritage.

Outside of Germany, they assimilated fine. In post-war Europe, which was very sympathetic to the Jews because of the discovery of the Holocaust, they would've been treated with empathetic caution and respect.

Besides, they were there first, weren't they?

Doesn't matter who was where first thousands of years ago.

[Transoxthraxia]

Not at all. I argue that the Jews did need a homeland. You don't need to have a social science degree to understand that the Jews in Medieval, Renaissance, Reformation, and Enlightenment-era Europe didn't assimilate for a reason; which is of course, Anti-Semitism. So how would their outlook, after centuries of persecution, change, and they would willingly assimilate into the European cultures in which they've lived parallel to for centuries? They wouldn't have assimilated. Giving them their own homeland was inevitable, in my opinion, because of their unique cultural identity and heritage.

Outside of Germany, they assimilated fine. In post-war Europe, which was very sympathetic to the Jews because of the discovery of the Holocaust, they would've been treated with empathetic caution and respect.

Besides, they were there first, weren't they?

Doesn't matter who was where first thousands of years ago.

And why does it not matter?

[Divair]

He's publicly called for Israel to revert back to the borders it had when it was first created. Which would reduce Israel to an 8 mile strip of land. Try and defend that. Oh, wait, you can't.

The 67 borders w/ adjustments aren't the "borders it had when it was first created". It can be defended very easily when your enemy is no longer pissed at you for refusing to recognize their sovereignty.

So, yeah, I don't find it hard to believe that he would.

Calling for peace = terrorist funding? What are you, 12? That is one of the largest leaps in logic I've seen on this forum.

[Divair]

Outside of Germany, they assimilated fine. In post-war Europe, which was very sympathetic to the Jews because of the discovery of the Holocaust, they would've been treated with empathetic caution and respect.


Doesn't matter who was where first thousands of years ago.

And why does it not matter?

Because everyone's fucking dead. They're gone. Long, long gone. If you want to start rearranging the entire planet based on who lived where a few thousand years ago, you better start dismantling every state on the planet.

[Jumalariik]

No problem with Jews or Israel, but this would all be easier if Israel would give Palestine some slack, something that they've not been doing. It might help too, to remove some theocratic laws too.

[Transoxthraxia]

And why does it not matter?

Because everyone's fucking dead. They're gone. Long, long gone. If you want to start rearranging the entire planet based on who lived where a few thousand years ago, you better start dismantling every state on the planet.

You could say that about the Muslims who first conquered the land then. And then the Crusaders, the Turks, etcetera. The thing is, Israel has been put on this planet, defended itself in three major wars fought against every neighbouring country, etcetera. If that isn't a birthright, I don't know what is.

[Rutannia]

The issue here is that the Jihad-ists have started something in Gaza so the innocent Palestinians will have to suffer with it, and with Israel not giving a dam about international law they'll do anything

[Eastfield Lodge]

Because everyone's fucking dead. They're gone. Long, long gone. If you want to start rearranging the entire planet based on who lived where a few thousand years ago, you better start dismantling every state on the planet.

You could say that about the Muslims who first conquered the land then. And then the Crusaders, the Turks, etcetera. The thing is, Israel has been put on this planet, defended itself in three major wars fought against every neighbouring country, etcetera. If that isn't a birthright, I don't know what is.

You may as well give the Americas back to the Natives then.

[Divair]

Because everyone's fucking dead. They're gone. Long, long gone. If you want to start rearranging the entire planet based on who lived where a few thousand years ago, you better start dismantling every state on the planet.

You could say that about the Muslims who first conquered the land then. And then the Crusaders, the Turks, etcetera. The thing is, Israel has been put on this planet, defended itself in three major wars fought against every neighbouring country, etcetera. If that isn't a birthright, I don't know what is.

It's not a birthright. It's a nation born out of conquest. Now millions of people have been born there and dismantling the state is out of the question. Its origin was not justified, but we can't wind back the clock now. What we can do is ensure that foreign intervention, which continually causes problems, is stopped. Though honestly, I'd settle for these asinine discussions on NSG ending.

[Transoxthraxia]

You could say that about the Muslims who first conquered the land then. And then the Crusaders, the Turks, etcetera. The thing is, Israel has been put on this planet, defended itself in three major wars fought against every neighbouring country, etcetera. If that isn't a birthright, I don't know what is.

You may as well give the Americas back to the Natives then.

If there were enough of them there, I would be in support of that. Hell, I never condoned what the English and the French and the Spanish did. I did mention before that colonialism was awful?

[Viritica]

He's publicly called for Israel to revert back to the borders it had when it was first created. Which would reduce Israel to an 8 mile strip of land. Try and defend that. Oh, wait, you can't.

The 67 borders w/ adjustments aren't the "borders it had when it was first created". It can be defended very easily when your enemy is no longer pissed at you for refusing to recognize their sovereignty.

So, yeah, I don't find it hard to believe that he would.

Calling for peace = terrorist funding? What are you, 12? That is one of the largest leaps in logic I've seen on this forum.

These are the borders Obama would have Israel revert back to.

Also, the Arabs don't want peace. They want Israel dead. They've made this clear, like, a million times.

[Divair]

(Image)

These are the borders Obama would have Israel revert back to.

Those are the 47 borders, not the 67 borders (w/ adjustments, because everyone knows we'll have to negotiate on the finer details)

Also, the Arabs don't want peace. They want Israel dead. They've made this clear, like, a million times.

Wrong. Hamas wants Israel dead. Similarly, there are groups in Israel that want all the Arabs dead. Extremism is the core of the problem, and the vast majority of NSG doesn't fucking get this because they're just as bad as the extremists that cause the problem in the first place.

[Eastfield Lodge]

You may as well give the Americas back to the Natives then.

If there were enough of them there, I would be in support of that. Hell, I never condoned what the English and the French and the Spanish did. I did mention before that colonialism was awful?

I know, I was just exemplifying Divair's point.
Not to mention that it would mean everybody would have a claim to Africa...

OT, I'm not really clued up as to the current state of affair in that region politics wise, but Hamas can only survive so long by doing this, they'll fall sooner of later and then we can start working towards peace.

[The Jonathanian States]

(Image)

These are the borders Obama would have Israel revert back to.

Those are the 47 borders, not the 67 borders (w/ adjustments, because everyone knows we'll have to negotiate on the finer details)

Also, the Arabs don't want peace. They want Israel dead. They've made this clear, like, a million times.

Wrong. Hamas wants Israel dead. Similarly, there are groups in Israel that want all the Arabs dead. Extremism is the core of the problem, and the vast majority of NSG doesn't fucking get this because they're just as bad as the extremists that cause the problem in the first place.

Fully Agreed.

[Gauthier]

Because Isreal are absolutely infallible, of course.

Well yeah.
They keep it real all the time, so one would be remiss in not trusting in them.

They were perfectly justified shooting at the Liberty amirite?

[Viritica]

(Image)

These are the borders Obama would have Israel revert back to.

Those are the 47 borders, not the 67 borders (w/ adjustments, because everyone knows we'll have to negotiate on the finer details)

Also, the Arabs don't want peace. They want Israel dead. They've made this clear, like, a million times.

Wrong. Hamas wants Israel dead. Similarly, there are groups in Israel that want all the Arabs dead. Extremism is the core of the problem, and the vast majority of NSG doesn't fucking get this because they're just as bad as the extremists that cause the problem in the first place.

I see nothing wrong with the current borders Israel has. It makes it easier for the Israelis to defend themselves. Both the West Bank and the Gaza Strip were lost by the aggressor nations when Israel was attacked. Too bad. They need to stop bitching.

And I suppose all the wars Israel has fought when the Arabs tried to destroy it were all caused by Hamas?

[Transoxthraxia]

Those are the 47 borders, not the 67 borders (w/ adjustments, because everyone knows we'll have to negotiate on the finer details)


Wrong. Hamas wants Israel dead. Similarly, there are groups in Israel that want all the Arabs dead. Extremism is the core of the problem, and the vast majority of NSG doesn't fucking get this because they're just as bad as the extremists that cause the problem in the first place.

I see nothing wrong with the current borders Israel has. It makes it easier for the Israelis to defend themselves. Both the West Bank and the Gaza Strip were lost by the aggressor nations when Israel was attacked. Too bad. They need to stop bitching.

And I suppose all the wars Israel has fought when the Arabs tried to destroy it were all caused by Hamas?

Basically agreeing, for both points.

[Volnotova]

The Islamists will never win this war they picked with Israel, Israel is a nation built on survival, and it will endure. The Jihadists will fail, and Israel will emerge into a new Golden Age.

Like that is in the interest of anyone.

The big people at least, most of them.

[Divair]

I see nothing wrong with the current borders Israel has. It makes it easier for the Israelis to defend themselves. Both the West Bank and the Gaza Strip were lost by the aggressor nations when Israel was attacked. Too bad. They need to stop bitching.

We don't need to defend ourselves if we don't oppress and mass murder the Palestinians. Terrorism isn't some phenomena. People hate others for a reason. Remove the reason and the hatred disappears.

And I suppose all the wars Israel has fought when the Arabs tried to destroy it were all caused by Hamas?

The recent ones? Yes, almost exclusively Hamas. Both Egypt and Jordan have been friendly with Israel since the mid 70's. Fatah is open to negotiation and peace deals. It's Hamas that's the problem nowadays. And the religious factions in Israel. And foreigners who don't have a fucking clue what the situation on the ground is.

[Transoxthraxia]

Well yeah.
They keep it real all the time, so one would be remiss in not trusting in them.

They were perfectly justified shooting at the Liberty amirite?

Was that the ship that was spying on them?

[Costa Fierro]

The Islamists will never win this war they picked with Israel, Israel is a nation built on survival, and it will endure. The Jihadists will fail, and Israel will emerge into a new Golden Age.

I'm not even sure winning is the goal. The militants in Gaza are being chocked from all sides, they may feel the need to lash out so as to preserve their own legitimacy in the face of plummeting living standards. It will probably work.

Briefly. Then the people will just simply go back to bitching about the government in private because doing so in public can get them arrested.

[Agritum]

The Islamists will never win this war they picked with Israel, Israel is a nation built on survival, and it will endure. The Jihadists will fail, and Israel will emerge into a new Golden Age.

Like that is in the interest of anyone.

The big people at least, most of them.

Well, I once read a book where this Israeli guy called David or something like that killed a giant with a rock.

So I guess that big people dislike Israel due to that.

[Divair]

They were perfectly justified shooting at the Liberty amirite?

Was that the ship that was spying on them?

No. It was a research ship in international waters. The IDF mistook it for an Egyptian ship and attacked it, killing 34 and injuring 171.

[Imperial Nilfgaard]

The issue here is that the Jihad-ists have started something in Gaza so the innocent Palestinians will have to suffer with it, and with Israel not giving a dam about international law they'll do anything

International Law? Thats a good joke. There is no such thing. There was temporary stability due to the unipolar nature of the post-Cold War World. However that order is eroding as the world becomes increasingly MultiPolar (which is far less internationally stable than unipolar or even bipolar). At the end of the day the only thing that matters is who has more guns. A piece of paper on it's own is useless.

Israel understands this, even if Obama refuses to.

[Avenio]

Because everyone's fucking dead. They're gone. Long, long gone. If you want to start rearranging the entire planet based on who lived where a few thousand years ago, you better start dismantling every state on the planet.

You could say that about the Muslims who first conquered the land then. And then the Crusaders, the Turks, etcetera. The thing is, Israel has been put on this planet, defended itself in three major wars fought against every neighbouring country, etcetera. If that isn't a birthright, I don't know what is.

And why should the current inhabitants of Palestine, whose parents were toddlers during the establishment of Israel, pay for that 'birthright'?