Should we Continue to Prosecute Nazi War Criminals?

[TheWalkingGhost]

That happened on both sides, try harder.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

History is written by the victor.

[Nazi Flower Power]

If you participated in the forced labor program and were not purposely starving prisoners to death, you are a Nazi war criminal who never committed genocide or homicide.

I am curious though, is a bystander who sees injustice done just a bystander?

Depends on the exact situation.

I wasn't talking about bystanders, though. I meant people that shipped prisoners to Germany for forced labor, factory owners or guards from places that used forced labor (the ones that were feeding their workers, but not purposely sheltering anyone for humanitarian reasons), and administrative personnel who worked in the forced labor program.

[Transhuman Proteus]

I don't see anything irrational in putting some of the worst criminals in history on trial.

With all other problems that are getting worse and won't go away, what is rational about hunting down and trying a few remaining old people?

I'm pretty sure most societies are capable of multi-tasking.

There are a lot of people in the world. I'm sure a few can work on the war criminals while the rest of us do the more important stuff.

Or we can leave Hitlers butler alone and focus 100% on things like cancer. The Emerald Legion is right, the actual ones have been dealt with.

Is anyone advocating going after Hitler's butler, as opposed to individuals who, you know, were complicit in what happened and willing engaged in this sort of behaviour?

Besides which: the kind of people involved in this - lawyers, investigators etc wouldn't be working on curing cancer even if they weren't hunting Nazi war criminals. Because, well, lawyers and historians aren't of much help in medical research.

I guess I might be saying - quality, not quantity, is important in any field of expertise. There is more than sufficient expertise in both cancer research, and war crime prosecution, that one isn't failing because the other exists. No society can go "100% of people will now research cancer and build roads, these are the important things".

Nobody's suggesting we go after Hitler's butler. We're suggesting we go after people who gassed children and shot surrendering soldiers in the head.

Hitlers butler is pretty much all that is left..

Actually I'm pretty sure most people who could be classifed as his butler are dead. I think, if I remember an article right, there may still be a velet out there.

And apparently they aren't all that's left, if a case can be successfully built against other individuals. Courts don't to hear trials just for fun, there has to be sufficient evidence for them to believe there is a case to be heard.

[Mike the Progressive]

Like how every villager in Dachau somehow didn't smell the stench.

I'm not even kidding, they actually said this as the Americans liberated it.

*Liberated? I think you mean bombed

My grandfather was there and rest assured, he saw it as liberation.

[Neutraligon]

Two wrongs don't make a right.

History is written by the victor.

Not when you have the animus

The victor also needs to deal with the wrongs they have committed.

[Wisconsin9]

Like how every villager in Dachau somehow didn't smell the stench.

I'm not even kidding, they actually said this as the Americans liberated it.

*Liberated? I think you mean bombed

I suspect he was referring to the camp.

[Wisconsin9]

Two wrongs don't make a right.

History is written by the victor.

If you're going to start saying that the Holocaust is a lie then I'm going to start pretending I'm punching you in the face.

[Roski]

*Liberated? I think you mean bombed

I suspect he was referring to the camp.

At the time, liberated = bombed

[Nazi Flower Power]

Would you be OK with Greater Nepal's idea to let them come forward and apologize in exchange for having their sentence automatically commuted?

Honestly I think it depends on the crime committed, and the degree to which they were involved. If Himmler came forward (just an example), I would have some serious issues with it automatically being commuted. For others who were possibly just bystanders, or who did not necessarily actively try to harm people, I think I would be much more open to that. I think I would prefer something like house arrest, rather then it being commuted, depending on the circumstances. Although, I also don't like the idea of if the person gets away with it for long enough, then they should not have to face the consequences of their actions.

If Himmler was still on the loose, I'd make an exception for him too. I just think it's a good system to wrap up loose ends and put the issue to rest now that the worst offenders have already been prosecuted or died. It's not something that would have been a good idea in 1945.

[Len Hyet]

Hold on, lemmie check the Satute of Limitations on genocide.

There isn't one?

Ah well, time to bring out the pitchforks and torches.

[Wisconsin9]

I suspect he was referring to the camp.

At the time, liberated = bombed

The camps weren't bombed. It was viewed as a waste of munitions, fuel, planes, and pilots.

[Mike the Progressive]

I am curious though, is a bystander who sees injustice done just a bystander?

Like how every villager in Dachau somehow didn't smell the stench.

I'm not even kidding, they actually said this as the Americans liberated it.

The argument that Germans didn't know what was happening is not only false but a pitiful attempt to not take blame. Maybe they didn't see what was happening, but they knew something was going on. Hitler spoke frequently of the Jews, the slavs and other "undesirables" as a disease, a sickness, a plague. You don't deport a disease. You don't kick out a sickness or a plague. You exterminate it. You burn it. Germans didn't want to know what was going on, they just wanted to look the other way and pretend it wasn't happening.

[TheWalkingGhost]

History is written by the victor.

If you're going to start saying that the Holocaust is a lie then I'm going to start pretending I'm punching you in the face.

How far did you have to reach to get that?

Spare me the ebadass routine.

[Wisconsin9]

If you're going to start saying that the Holocaust is a lie then I'm going to start pretending I'm punching you in the face.

How far did you have to reach to get that?

Spare me the ebadass routine.

Then I fail to see the point of your "written by the victor" comment. I was agreeing that the Allies did terrible things and should have been punished for them.

As for the ITG thing, there's a reason I said pretending.

[United Marxist Nations]

point?

-Soviet War Heros were arrested by the Kremlin, because Joseph Stalin was a fucking Maniac.-

1) Totally irrelevant.
2) Mostly false, because they were used extensively for propaganda (e.g. Pavlov's house, Panfilov's 28 Guardsmen, etc.)

[Neutraligon]

Like how every villager in Dachau somehow didn't smell the stench.

I'm not even kidding, they actually said this as the Americans liberated it.

The argument that Germans didn't know what was happening is not only false but a pitiful attempt to not take blame. Maybe they didn't see what was happening, but they knew something was going on. Hitler spoke frequently of the Jews, the slavs and other "undesirables" as a disease, a sickness, a plague. You don't deport a disease. You don't kick out a sickness or a plague. You exterminate it. You burn it. Germans didn't want to know what was going on, they just wanted to look the other way and pretend it wasn't happening.

Truth be told, I see most Germans who were above a certain age at the time as complicit for this very reason. They knew, they might not have taken part, but they knew, and ignored it. If I walk by a murder happening, and ignore it, I am complicit due to the fact that I ignored it.

[Roski]

-Soviet War Heros were arrested by the Kremlin, because Joseph Stalin was a fucking Maniac.-

1) Totally irrelevant.
2) Mostly false, because they were used extensively for propaganda (e.g. Pavlov's house, Panfilov's 28 Guardsmen, etc.)

And then died not a decade later.

Its ok, my point was made.

[Neutraligon]

1) Totally irrelevant.
2) Mostly false, because they were used extensively for propaganda (e.g. Pavlov's house, Panfilov's 28 Guardsmen, etc.)

And then died not a decade later.

Its ok, my point was made.

Since I have no idea what your point was, not really.

[United Marxist Nations]

1) Totally irrelevant.
2) Mostly false, because they were used extensively for propaganda (e.g. Pavlov's house, Panfilov's 28 Guardsmen, etc.)

And then died not a decade later.

Its ok, my point was made.

Uh, many Soviet war heroes (e.g. Pavlov) lived well into their later years; most that didn't were that way because they were war-heroes who, you know, died in the war (Panfilov's 28 Guardsmen are in this category).

[Roski]

And then died not a decade later.

Its ok, my point was made.

Uh, many Soviet war heroes (e.g. Pavlov) lived well into their later years; most that didn't were that way because they were war-heroes who, you know, died in the war (Panfilov's 28 Guardsmen are in this category).

Well, that last sentence is irrelevant

[United Marxist Nations]

Uh, many Soviet war heroes (e.g. Pavlov) lived well into their later years; most that didn't were that way because they were war-heroes who, you know, died in the war (Panfilov's 28 Guardsmen are in this category).

Well, that last sentence is irrelevant

Mentioning the topic in the first place was.

[Roski]

Well, that last sentence is irrelevant

Mentioning the topic in the first place was.

It was a response to a thing "Well both sides did it."

So no, its on topic.

[Mike the Progressive]

The argument that Germans didn't know what was happening is not only false but a pitiful attempt to not take blame. Maybe they didn't see what was happening, but they knew something was going on. Hitler spoke frequently of the Jews, the slavs and other "undesirables" as a disease, a sickness, a plague. You don't deport a disease. You don't kick out a sickness or a plague. You exterminate it. You burn it. Germans didn't want to know what was going on, they just wanted to look the other way and pretend it wasn't happening.

Truth be told, I see most Germans who were above a certain age at the time as complicit for this very reason. They knew, they might not have taken part, but they knew, and ignored it. If I walk by a murder happening, and ignore it, I am complicit due to the fact that I ignored it.

The sort of scary thing is it's not unique to Germany or Germans. With the right circumstances, it could happen anywhere.

[United Marxist Nations]

Mentioning the topic in the first place was.

It was a response to a thing "Well both sides did it."

So no, its on topic.

How is bringing up a false statement about the USSR executing its own war heroes relevant to a discussion about both sides in the war shooting surrendered enemy?

[Meepcraftia]

I think that the following phrase describes the topic of this discussion:

Blanket Hate