Does America need a bit of Socialism

[Cyyro]

We've gone over this before. Large chains like Walmart outcompete this small stores because they are able to lower their prices at will and drive out competition. For christ's sake, do you even remember what people were saying to you earlier in this thread?

For believers in the "free market" like them the poor do not exist and the only monopoly that can ever exist is the government. Capitalism is incapable of ever doing anything wrong.

The poor are only temporarily embarrased millionaires.

[Pilotto]

You guys should read The Wealth of Nations some time.

For believers in the "free market" like them the poor do not exist and the only monopoly that can ever exist is the government. Capitalism is incapable of ever doing anything wrong.

The poor are only temporarily embarrased millionaires.

Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.

[WRIF Army]

We've gone over this before. Large chains like Walmart outcompete this small stores because they are able to lower their prices at will and drive out competition. For christ's sake, do you even remember what people were saying to you earlier in this thread?

For believers in the "free market" like them the poor do not exist and the only monopoly that can ever exist is the government. Capitalism is incapable of ever doing anything wrong.

Capitalism isn't perfect because people aren't perfect. But it is a far sight better than a coercive govt monopoly that is virtually unaccountable that engages in backroom deals that benefit themselves at the expense of the very people they claim to represent.

[Divair]

You guys should read The Wealth of Nations some time.

Already did quite a long time ago.

[Threlizdun]

There are other means than physical force to force people to buy your product. For example walmart offers prices below what it costs to make which causes people to buy from walmart because it's so cheap (not because of the quality of the products) which in turn force all the small businesses to go bankrupt. Now that Walmart is the only supplier of those supplies left you have to buy from them. You honestly know nothing about economics and you have provided no evidence to back you up.

Your honestly bitching about lower prices ?!

Can you name a single private sector monopoly that lowered prices then raised them and got away with it ?

Do you understand that a company loses money lowering prices below costs ?

Do you realize that the moment they raise prices they incentive immediate competition, substitution goods, boycotts... that will further erode profits?

It won't happen, it hasn't happened, it shouldn't be used to justify a far greater monopoly that is govt.

Holding your fingers in your ears and screaming "Lalala!" does not make the reality of monopolies disappear. If you can't understand the reality of the economic situations we live in, then you are going to be severely hurt once you enter the real world.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Their leader has a nice hat. Has got to count for something.

I don't like it.

Too bad.

[European Socialist Republic]

For believers in the "free market" like them the poor do not exist and the only monopoly that can ever exist is the government. Capitalism is incapable of ever doing anything wrong.

Capitalism isn't perfect because people aren't perfect. But it is a far sight better than a coercive govt monopoly that is virtually unaccountable that engages in backroom deals that benefit themselves at the expense of the very people they claim to represent.

Which is not what socialism is. You're getting off-topic here.

[Napkiraly]

Or anywhere. Starvation is omnipresent in all nations of all political ideologies. Though I wouldn't be surprised if the Nordic countries came closest to eliminating it.

It's pretty easy to eliminate starvation in low population countries. Compared to high population countries at least.

You know a lot of African countries have low populations, right?

[Pilotto]

You guys should read The Wealth of Nations some time.

Already did quite a long time ago.

I take it you're not a fan.

[Divair]

I don't like it.

Too bad.

So sad.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Can you name a single private sector monopoly that lowered prices then raised them and got away with it ?

There were a lot back before anti-trust laws.

And you're making a lot of arguments about what Wal-Mart does for the consumer, but what does it do for the worker?

[Divair]

Already did quite a long time ago.

I take it you're not a fan.

Why not?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

There are other means than physical force to force people to buy your product. For example walmart offers prices below what it costs to make which causes people to buy from walmart because it's so cheap (not because of the quality of the products) which in turn force all the small businesses to go bankrupt. Now that Walmart is the only supplier of those supplies left you have to buy from them. You honestly know nothing about economics and you have provided no evidence to back you up.

Your honestly bitching about lower prices ?!

Can you name a single private sector monopoly that lowered prices then raised them and got away with it ?

Do you understand that a company loses money lowering prices below costs ?

Do you realize that the moment they raise prices they incentive immediate competition, substitution goods, boycotts... that will further erode profits?

It won't happen, it hasn't happened, it shouldn't be used to justify a far greater monopoly that is govt.

If there are no valid substitute goods, and you cannot boycott out of necessity as well as nobody to pick up the slack as immediate competition, you are left with no other recourse than to buy from them.

Also, Gallo's Wal-Mart is a perfect example of a local monopoly. A monopoly doesn't have to be national in order to be a monopoly.

[Riiser-Larsen]

Source.

EDIT: Divair, I'm about to put a virus on your computer that makes all internet transactions have a five second delay. Jesus.

I will post empirical evidence to show that the freer an economy, the more productive provided that private property protections are in place.

Have you ever considered that in a government where large amounts of welfare are provided people might not need to make enormous amounts of money? Besides, the majority of the economies that are listed on the lower ends occur in third-world dictatorships not in Europe where economies are controlled but still powerful.

In addition, I have no urge to respect a study which comes off of wordpress of all places.

[Cyyro]

It's pretty easy to eliminate starvation in low population countries. Compared to high population countries at least.

You know a lot of African countries have low populations, right?

Let me rephrase that. "It's pretty easy to eliminate starvation in low population 1st world countries." Compared to high population countries.

[Galloism]

There are other means than physical force to force people to buy your product. For example walmart offers prices below what it costs to make which causes people to buy from walmart because it's so cheap (not because of the quality of the products) which in turn force all the small businesses to go bankrupt. Now that Walmart is the only supplier of those supplies left you have to buy from them. You honestly know nothing about economics and you have provided no evidence to back you up.

Your honestly bitching about lower prices ?!

Can you name a single private sector monopoly that lowered prices then raised them and got away with it ?

Wal-mart.

Do you understand that a company loses money lowering prices below costs ?

Yes. Do you understand why that may be a preferable move in the short term in order to get long term gain?

Do you realize that the moment they raise prices they incentive immediate competition, substitution goods, boycotts... that will further erode profits?

Tell me how you will immediately compete with a brick and mortar store. They double their prices today. How will you immediately open a competing store tomorrow?

Keep in mind: you make $20,000 per year.

It won't happen, it hasn't happened, it shouldn't be used to justify a far greater monopoly that is govt.

Sure. Live in ignorance.

[WRIF Army]

Open your own store,

I don't have the $3-5 million it takes to open a store to compete with wal-mart.

boycott,

I'm sure the bus driver having no clothes would be an interesting anatomy lesson.

find substitution goods,

For clothes? Like what?

buy online,

Which costs substantially more due to shipping, along with the lack of guarantee they will fit.

move......

Your free market solution is kill a town? That's a valid solution?

Besides, a lot of us don't have the $2,000-$5,000 it takes to move.

there are myriad options that are far better than surrendering most of your freedoms to a behemoth federal govt monopoly to counter a non-coercive WalMart monopoly (if it really exists).

Btw, tell me where you live and I will give you dozens of competitors within a short drive.

Define short.

Sam Walton was discharged from the Army with hardly anything. He opened a small store in Arkansas, busted his ass and created an empire. Some day an upstart (maybe Amazon....) will do better than WalMart and run them out of business.

Competition is never ending in capitalist society and it is driven by consumer preferences in a free, peaceful and voluntary market.

Moreover, tell me where you live and I guarantee I can find dozens of alternatives to your WalMart boogeyman. And you don't need to buy a store, in a free market some entrepreneur will step in for you to challenge a monopoly that overcharges for goods and services -- it always happens unless govt provides protections for favored businesses that bribe politicians (that is what you should really be worried about, not free market monopolies)

[Cyyro]

You guys should read The Wealth of Nations some time.

The poor are only temporarily embarrased millionaires.

Are you... on our side now?

I've been on your side. Just ignore how it says "Left-leaning college state" That wasn't supposed to happen.

[Divair]

Sure. Live in ignorance.

Isn't this honestly what it comes down to, though? It's simply a lack of life experience. There's a reason free market fanboys are common on this forum, and that's because the vast majority of the forum is under 18. Most of them don't live on their own, don't pay bills, don't pay taxes, don't deal with lower class struggles.. How can they possible argue they understand the economy better than those who have decades of experience? That their ideology is better than that which most developed countries follow?

[Threlizdun]

For believers in the "free market" like them the poor do not exist and the only monopoly that can ever exist is the government. Capitalism is incapable of ever doing anything wrong.

Capitalism isn't perfect because people aren't perfect. But it is a far sight better than a coercive govt monopoly that is virtually unaccountable that engages in backroom deals that benefit themselves at the expense of the very people they claim to represent.

The government isn't unaccountable. We have a representative democratic republic, and while it is still coercive and not something I favor, we do have a measure of influence in it. The same cannot be said for an unrestricted capitalist market in which the the more unethically you act the more power you gain and the further out of public reach you become. You complain about something we actually have a degree of influence over and propose replacing it with something we have next to no influence over.

[Riiser-Larsen]

You know a lot of African countries have low populations, right?

Let me rephrase that. "It's pretty easy to eliminate starvation in low population 1st world countries." Compared to high population countries.

Yeah, although it relies a lot on automation and importing food. Luxembourg for example is not going to be able to feed itself if it boycotts all foreign food goods.

[Lydenburg]

Does America need a bit less strawmen?

[Benuty]

As a great woman once said "Most of America needs to take a breath, sit down, get a nice authentic book on government & ideology, and shut the fuck up until they know something".

[Nervium]

As a great woman once said "Most of America needs to take a breath, sit down, get a nice authentic book on government & ideology, and shut the fuck up until they know something".

Was that great woman Dorothy Day?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I don't have the $3-5 million it takes to open a store to compete with wal-mart.



I'm sure the bus driver having no clothes would be an interesting anatomy lesson.



For clothes? Like what?


Which costs substantially more due to shipping, along with the lack of guarantee they will fit.



Your free market solution is kill a town? That's a valid solution?

Besides, a lot of us don't have the $2,000-$5,000 it takes to move.


Define short.

Sam Walton was discharged from the Army with hardly anything. He opened a small store in Arkansas, busted his ass and created an empire. Some day an upstart (maybe Amazon....) will do better than WalMart and run them out of business.

Competition is never ending in capitalist society and it is driven by consumer preferences in a free, peaceful and voluntary market.

Moreover, tell me where you live and I guarantee I can find dozens of alternatives to your WalMart boogeyman. And you don't need to buy a store, in a free market some entrepreneur will step in for you to challenge a monopoly that overcharges for goods and services -- it always happens unless govt provides protections for favored businesses that bribe politicians (that is what you should really be worried about, not free market monopolies)

Even the best of Entrepreneurs would find competing with a store like fucking Wal-Mart too burdening because it is - again - far easier to kick out competition out of a market you own than carving a market in one you don't own any resources.

Basic rule of economics: all resources are limited by the inherent nature of scarcity.