Would you ever want to not feel?

[Sun Wukong]

There are people in the world like this.

They're cripplingly indecisive.

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

You can't? How?

People make discourses about how I will not be worthy of society's support and that my future is doomed and I can fap to that.

[Euloria]

How does that not make sense? When use logic alone, there are only two conclusions. The first is that life has no purpose, as there is no enjoyment, and thus everyone should. The second states life also has no purpose, therefore we must invent one that brings us enjoyment.

Using only logic gets us nowhere.

But logically, one needs to survive and reproduce. If this is fulfilling in and of itself, then logic has accomplished everything it needs.

It all depends on how you define fulfillment, and I'm of the belief that that's cultural, not inherent.

Except without feeling, it is not fulfilling. You do not feel the desire to do it, nor does pure logic lead you to the conclusion that reproduction and survival is necessary.

[Frisivisia]

From what I've cobbled together from personal experience with family members and myself with depression, the part that's life-destroying is just feeling shitty and apathetic all the time. I don't think I'd mind leaving that behind.

Shitty and apathetic is really general. I was too immature to really comprehend what the hell was happening. Much of it was confused with normal things of puberty, and having to adapt, and the general shittiness of having puppy love and extreme allergic rhinitis does to your humor.

I've had relatives with really severe depression, and they couldn't describe it beyond just feeling terrible all the time and that making them not care about anything else, and it just crushing and crushing.

[Gaelic Celtia]

Sometimes, especially in winter months. SAD and all.

[Shnercropolis]

You can't? How?

People make discourses about how I will not be worthy of society's support and that my future is doomed and I can fap to that.

Meh. So long as you fell satisfied, I suppose you're doing ok.

[Utceforp]

I admit that the purpose of life is inherently an emotional concept. However, I would not want to feel, because emotions would be a hindrance to achieving that goal. Letting old people live makes them more happy than killing them would make other people happy, so there's a net gain of happiness.

Except that happiness doesn't exist, because you cannot feel it. And there is the question, why is happiness desirable? If it is, whose takes priority, if anyone's does?

Nobody's happiness does. The "value" of a human being is incredibly hard to define, so except in certain circumstances (A young biologist would be worth more than an old musician) you have to assume that people are equal.

[Euloria]

How does that not make sense? When use logic alone, there are only two conclusions. The first is that life has no purpose, as there is no enjoyment, and thus everyone should. The second states life also has no purpose, therefore we must invent one that brings us enjoyment.

Using only logic gets us nowhere.

The second one works. Logic is the means, emotion is the end. Including emotion in the decisions that are part of the means to the end is what is a problem.

Without emotion though, there is no reason to reach? You do not feel the desire to reach it, nor will you feel the enjoyment at the end. Logic is needed in making decisions certainly, but it is ironically a leap in logic to claim that enjoyment is desirable.

[Basking Turtles]

Emotions are the end, but they cannot be the means. If you feel your way through life I doubt you'll be satisfied when you die. In any case, the goal of life is for everyone to be satisfied when they die. Why is your satisfaction more important?

If you have empathy, (part of) your purpose will be to help others.

I understand your idea of rational, logical machines being more efficient. But we are not built like that. We need motivation to function. Emotions motivate you every step of the way. They motivate you to get up in the morning, to get dressed, to get in the car, to turn the key and start driving, and so on.

If you feel nothing, you will wake up in the morning and think: I could get up. Or not. Whatever. So you don't get up, because not moving is easy. I have spent entire days in bed like this, until eventually I had to get up to pee. And I didn't even feel bad about wasting an entire day like that, because I felt nothing. See what I mean? If you don't feel, you don't get anything done.

[Euloria]

Except that happiness doesn't exist, because you cannot feel it. And there is the question, why is happiness desirable? If it is, whose takes priority, if anyone's does?

Nobody's happiness does. The "value" of a human being is incredibly hard to define, so except in certain circumstances (A young biologist would be worth more than an old musician) you have to assume that people are equal.

Except logically, no one has any value, as without a purpose there is no value to define.

[Utceforp]

The second one works. Logic is the means, emotion is the end. Including emotion in the decisions that are part of the means to the end is what is a problem.

Without emotion though, there is no reason to reach? You do not feel the desire to reach it, nor will you feel the enjoyment at the end. Logic is needed in making decisions certainly, but it is ironically a leap in logic to claim that enjoyment is desirable.

If enjoyment isn't desirable, why are you promoting emotions?

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

I've had relatives with really severe depression, and they couldn't describe it beyond just feeling terrible all the time and that making them not care about anything else, and it just crushing and crushing.

Emo as it might sound, I felt like a rhinoceros was sit on me and I passed out, then someone made a hole in the ground and to make the rhinoceros go away, also penetrated my trunk with a blade, and now I am slowly healing the broken bones and the wound.

[Euloria]

Without emotion though, there is no reason to reach? You do not feel the desire to reach it, nor will you feel the enjoyment at the end. Logic is needed in making decisions certainly, but it is ironically a leap in logic to claim that enjoyment is desirable.

If enjoyment isn't desirable, why are you promoting emotions?

Enjoyment is not desirable when you look at it from a purely logical standpoint.

[Frisivisia]

But logically, one needs to survive and reproduce. If this is fulfilling in and of itself, then logic has accomplished everything it needs.

It all depends on how you define fulfillment, and I'm of the belief that that's cultural, not inherent.

Except without feeling, it is not fulfilling. You do not feel the desire to do it, nor does pure logic lead you to the conclusion that reproduction and survival is necessary.

Bullshit. You can look at something and say, "I have done all I need to", thus being fulfilled, without feeling fulfilled, and I think it's really ridiculous that you're saying that logic alone cannot go with feelings because "feeling" is too generic of a term and can describe either a thought or an emotion.

Pure logic says "survive and reproduce", this is the basis of life.

Either way, logic is only a means, logic isn't a place you go to, it's a tool you use, and you're really doling out a pointless philosophical problem as you've defined it so thin that you can't help but be right. That's no good for thought and only stifles the discussion.

[Utceforp]

If enjoyment isn't desirable, why are you promoting emotions?

Enjoyment is not desirable when you look at it from a purely logical standpoint.

So you're saying that the only way to decide that emotions are valuable is from an emotional standpoint?

[The Joseon Dynasty]

Also i'm a sociopath.

omg me too. let's be friends!

[Frisivisia]

If enjoyment isn't desirable, why are you promoting emotions?

Enjoyment is not desirable when you look at it from a purely logical standpoint.

That's not really explained, is it?

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

Meh. So long as you fell satisfied, I suppose you're doing ok.

2012, 2013 and 2014 have been the best years of my life so far. I couldn't hate my body and my lack of will with my real life more, but I don't feel bad about myself not even a fraction of what it was.

I know this lifestyle isn't and can't be eternal but so can be said of life as a whole, amirite?

[Shnercropolis]

Enjoyment is not desirable when you look at it from a purely logical standpoint.

So you're saying that the only way to decide that emotions are valuable is from an emotional standpoint?

Well, assuming we're not wired to feel them at all, then yes. It would be a waste of bodily resources to make the proper hormones which would go unused.

[Euloria]

Bullshit. You can look at something and say, "I have done all I need to", thus being fulfilled, without feeling fulfilled, and I think it's really ridiculous that you're saying that logic alone cannot go with feelings because "feeling" is too generic of a term and can describe either a thought or an emotion.

Except that fulfillment, as we are both defining it, is a feeling. You can literally fulfill something, as in complete a task, but you do not feel fulfillment, as in the feeling that you achieved something you needed to, as you do not desire to achieve anything.

Pure logic says "survive and reproduce", this is the basis of life.

There is no reason to do that, on purely logical standpoint, as there is no purpose to continuing it. Were the Earth alive, it would not logically be necessary for it to keep having asteroids slam into it.

Either way, logic is only a means, logic isn't a place you go to, it's a tool you use, and you're really doling out a pointless philosophical problem as you've defined it so thin that you can't help but be right. That's no good for thought and only stifles the discussion.

I never said logic doesn't have its uses, its immensely important for day-to-day life along with the bigger questions. Emotions and logic are both massively important and neither should be eliminated.

[Euloria]

Enjoyment is not desirable when you look at it from a purely logical standpoint.

That's not really explained, is it?

Why would it be desirable? There is no reason to feel it.

[Euloria]

Enjoyment is not desirable when you look at it from a purely logical standpoint.

So you're saying that the only way to decide that emotions are valuable is from an emotional standpoint?

To a degree, yes.

[Shnercropolis]

Meh. So long as you fell satisfied, I suppose you're doing ok.

2012, 2013 and 2014 have been the best years of my life so far. I couldn't hate my body and my lack of will with my real life more, but I don't feel bad about myself not even a fraction of what it was.

I know this lifestyle isn't and can't be eternal but so can be said of life as a whole, amirite?

Yeh. Future me is totally going to cash in from my work, though.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I admit that the purpose of life is inherently an emotional concept. However, I would not want to feel, because emotions would be a hindrance to achieving that goal. Letting old people live makes them more happy than killing them would make other people happy, so there's a net gain of happiness.

Except that happiness doesn't exist, because you cannot feel it. And there is the question, why is happiness desirable? If it is, whose takes priority, if anyone's does?

You made the point more complicated than it already was.

The point me and Utce were discussing was why were emotions and character valuation important. Without emotions you cannot make the logical decisions accurately since you would believe that the most efficient choice to keep the species alive is what needs to happen (in this case murder all the old people and give the young people more resources).

What Utce has said, if I understand correctly, is that even while using logic one can apply emotional net gains and losses and hence his own argument admits that emotions need to be valued when making decisions.

Of course, he is also saying that having emotions is a hindrance to achieve our purpose in life, which I do not agree with since the satisfaction of achieving our purposes in life is also an emotion regardless of how much you sacrifice emotionally down the road.

[Katyuscha]

Tried it, once. Only made things worse, for me.

Plus, never being able to love sounds like a nightmarish fate.