What if Lucifer is the good guy and God is the bad one?

[Seperates]

So is that standard at crotch level?

I'd describe it as dingleberry-level, but more or less yeah.

I figured as much.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

All I see here is Argument from Ridicule attempts. My post completely decimated a tenant of this thread, I shall continue to do that soon.

Pray tell, what is a 'tenant of this thread'?

Apparently we pay rent for posting here, in this thread.

Unless he meant ''tenet'', but since he was riding such a high horse and patting himself on the shoulder, didn't spell-check. *shrug*

[Great Kleomentia]

Well that woman needs to go to the fucking Doctor.

As do Christians who believe God comitted his atrocities out of love. Indeed.

Nah, look it all makes sense:

[Frials]

One of the main reasons for my antitheism rests in the thread title.

[Aaron Saltzer]

"Humanity didn't just disobey, they did the worst thing ever: they sinned. And god, being too pure to look on sin, had to banish and punish them for this disobedience. Therefore, God's actions are justified, and will be rectified when Jesus returns and condemns Satan to Gehenna.[/quote]

Where's Gehenna?

[Goeiehoopland]

Where's Gehenna?

Let me wikipedia that for you.

[Draica]

As do Christians who believe God comitted his atrocities out of love. Indeed.

Nah, look it all makes sense:

Appeal to ridicule.

A perfect example is the story of the rich man and Lazarus. Both died, and the rich man went to hell while Lazarus went to paradise (Luke 16). Of course, the rich man was aware that his sins were only committed during his lifetime. But, interestingly, he never says, “How did I end up here?” That question is never asked in hell. He does not say, “Did I really deserve this? Don't you think this is a little extreme? A little over the top?” He only asks that someone go to his brothers who are still alive and warn them against his fate.

So, people know about their rebellion, they know why they're there. How do you expect God to tolerate it when you reject him, spit in his face, mock him and do not ask for his forgiveness? If he was always such a loving, epitome of peace God with no limits to his tolerance then I'd be scared!

[Frials]

Nah, look it all makes sense:

(Image)

Appeal to ridicule.

A perfect example is the story of the rich man and Lazarus. Both died, and the rich man went to hell while Lazarus went to paradise (Luke 16). Of course, the rich man was aware that his sins were only committed during his lifetime. But, interestingly, he never says, “How did I end up here?” That question is never asked in hell. He does not say, “Did I really deserve this? Don't you think this is a little extreme? A little over the top?” He only asks that someone go to his brothers who are still alive and warn them against his fate.

So, people know about their rebellion, they know why they're there. How do you expect God to tolerate it when you reject him, spit in his face, mock him and do not ask for his forgiveness? If he was always such a loving, epitome of peace God with no limits to his tolerance then I'd be scared!

Why? If God actually tolerated you for who you are, turned Hell from an eternal punishment to a temporary one, like a purgatory, and weighted his decision on who to and not to let into Heaven automatically due to their deeds, what is there to be scared about? Sadly, that isn't the case in Christianity or Islam.

[Neutraligon]

Appeal to ridicule.

A perfect example is the story of the rich man and Lazarus. Both died, and the rich man went to hell while Lazarus went to paradise (Luke 16). Of course, the rich man was aware that his sins were only committed during his lifetime. But, interestingly, he never says, “How did I end up here?” That question is never asked in hell. He does not say, “Did I really deserve this? Don't you think this is a little extreme? A little over the top?” He only asks that someone go to his brothers who are still alive and warn them against his fate.

So, people know about their rebellion, they know why they're there. How do you expect God to tolerate it when you reject him, spit in his face, mock him and do not ask for his forgiveness? If he was always such a loving, epitome of peace God with no limits to his tolerance then I'd be scared!

Why? If God actually tolerated you for who you are, turned Hell from an eternal punishment to a temporary one, like a purgatory, and weighted his decision on who to and not to let into Heaven automatically due to their deeds, what is there to be scared about? Sadly, that isn't the case in Christianity or Islam.

I have heard some Jews claim that the reason one suffers in the afterlife is that one's own actions cause pain or pleasure.As people are inherently good, and sins are limited, the pain ends and then one only feels pleasure.

[Alaizia]

Isn't that what the Cathars believed? In my opinion, if I believed in God, and was a christian, I would choose gnosticism and Catharism in extension. It just seems a more fascinating and interesting faith to hold.

The short answer is yes.

The slightly less short answer is that we don't know exactly what the Cathars believed (we only have the - actually pretty good - records left by their adversaries), but standard thinking is that they are related to the Balkan Bogomil sect, who are themselves thought to be based off of the Paulicians who had been forced out of Armenia some time earlier. The Paulicians were a Gnostic bunch, who are also sometimes cited as the origin of Manicheanism. So yeah, they probably believed that.

That's true about not having a complete idea of the Cathars' beliefs. Also, you are most likely true about their origins.

The funny thing about Cathars, is that while they were the most succesful heresy of the early Middle Ages and gave a structure with their teachings which Luther stepped upon, they were easily confused with other heresies who had almost nothing in common with them (for instance, Apostolics and Dolcinians, Arians etc) because to the inquisitor's, or rather to the Catholics', point of view they were all the same.

In my point of view, they were something like western Buddhists.

Which puts me in thoughts....

[Alaizia]

I was considering trying to post a meaningful contribution to this thread, but seeing as it's mostly devolved to a flame war (as ought to be expected in any online theological 'debate'), I'll just post whom I suspect is behind the original post:
(Image)

Oh good! Now my photos are on the internet. Great.....

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

I think there is a central, unresolved question in theology, specifically the theodical question of if there is a omnibenevolent God, why does Justin Bieber exist?

[The Flutterlands]

How about you all read John Milton's Paradise Lost? That's the perfect answer to this thread question.

Edit: Or at least a good poem, for this topic, that is.

[Alaizia]

I think there is a central, unresolved question in theology, specifically the theodical question of if there is a omnibenevolent God, why does Justin Bieber exist?

Hush! You know we shouldn't call his name. Pure evil.

[Alaizia]

How about you all read John Milton's Paradise Lost? That's the perfect answer to this thread question.

Edit: Or at least a good poem, for this topic, that is.

I think most people in this thread have read it.

[The Flutterlands]

How about you all read John Milton's Paradise Lost? That's the perfect answer to this thread question.

Edit: Or at least a good poem, for this topic, that is.

I think most people in this thread have read it.

Just saying.

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

I think there is a central, unresolved question in theology, specifically the theodical question of if there is a omnibenevolent God, why does Justin Bieber exist?

Hush! You know we shouldn't call his name. Pure evil.

According to Plantigina, He Who Must Not Be Named, being a natural, rather than a moral, evil, is the result of fallen angels exercising their free will, which is too far fetched, and depends on more magic than most people can handle.

[Free Tristania]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGR4SFOimlk

Al Pacino was right.

[Great Kleomentia]

Nah, look it all makes sense:

Appeal to ridicule.

A perfect example is the story of the rich man and Lazarus. Both died, and the rich man went to hell while Lazarus went to paradise (Luke 16). Of course, the rich man was aware that his sins were only committed during his lifetime. But, interestingly, he never says, “How did I end up here?” That question is never asked in hell. He does not say, “Did I really deserve this? Don't you think this is a little extreme? A little over the top?” He only asks that someone go to his brothers who are still alive and warn them against his fate.

So, people know about their rebellion, they know why they're there. How do you expect God to tolerate it when you reject him, spit in his face, mock him and do not ask for his forgiveness? If he was always such a loving, epitome of peace God with no limits to his tolerance then I'd be scared!

I get what you're saying. He's like a parent, and a parent punishes he's children so they would learn from their mistakes. But eternity in hell isnt going to do much if one spends a eternity in it. One can not use the wisdom they learned in hell if they spend all of eternity in it. It's like God is just saying "I love you, but you will suffer forever because of it."

[Benuty]

Appeal to ridicule.

A perfect example is the story of the rich man and Lazarus. Both died, and the rich man went to hell while Lazarus went to paradise (Luke 16). Of course, the rich man was aware that his sins were only committed during his lifetime. But, interestingly, he never says, “How did I end up here?” That question is never asked in hell. He does not say, “Did I really deserve this? Don't you think this is a little extreme? A little over the top?” He only asks that someone go to his brothers who are still alive and warn them against his fate.

So, people know about their rebellion, they know why they're there. How do you expect God to tolerate it when you reject him, spit in his face, mock him and do not ask for his forgiveness? If he was always such a loving, epitome of peace God with no limits to his tolerance then I'd be scared!

I get what you're saying. He's like a parent, and a parent punishes he's children so they would learn from their mistakes. But eternity in hell isnt going to do much if one spends a eternity in it. One can not use the wisdom they learned in hell if they spend all of eternity in it. It's like God is just saying "I love you, but you will suffer forever because of it."

http://www.bibleed.com/bibleteachings/o ... dgrave.asp

Given that hell is the grave you technically already are dead .

[Galloism]

Ok I really don't have an answer to that. It's also really late and I'm tired.

... but really in every one of those other examples it was divine intervention.

If God could make sky-food that feeds 3 and a half million people, I'm sure he could create a talking snake.

Lailah Tov my friend, if you do end up going to sleep.

Ok, I thought about this. As far as I am aware, there is only one other biblically recorded event of a talking animal. It was Balaam's donkey - a regular Mr. Ed.

(Yes, I'm aware Mr. Ed was a horse, of course.)

In Jewish tradition, is the donkey the one that was speaking, or was the donkey actually simply a mouthpiece?

[Galloism]

So, wait, in the Jewish faith, God is a backstabbing murderous psychopath?

If you could somehow give him Asperger's, he could post on NSG.

What do you mean here?

NSG has a bad habit. I was making fun of it.

[Frials]

Appeal to ridicule.

A perfect example is the story of the rich man and Lazarus. Both died, and the rich man went to hell while Lazarus went to paradise (Luke 16). Of course, the rich man was aware that his sins were only committed during his lifetime. But, interestingly, he never says, “How did I end up here?” That question is never asked in hell. He does not say, “Did I really deserve this? Don't you think this is a little extreme? A little over the top?” He only asks that someone go to his brothers who are still alive and warn them against his fate.

So, people know about their rebellion, they know why they're there. How do you expect God to tolerate it when you reject him, spit in his face, mock him and do not ask for his forgiveness? If he was always such a loving, epitome of peace God with no limits to his tolerance then I'd be scared!

I get what you're saying. He's like a parent, and a parent punishes he's children so they would learn from their mistakes. But eternity in hell isnt going to do much if one spends a eternity in it. One can not use the wisdom they learned in hell if they spend all of eternity in it. It's like God is just saying "I love you, but you will suffer forever because of it."

A parent who punishes his or her children by burning them alive so that they fell the pain for as long as possible should be executed or jailed, depending on the circumstances.

[Benuty]

I get what you're saying. He's like a parent, and a parent punishes he's children so they would learn from their mistakes. But eternity in hell isnt going to do much if one spends a eternity in it. One can not use the wisdom they learned in hell if they spend all of eternity in it. It's like God is just saying "I love you, but you will suffer forever because of it."

A parent who punishes his or her children by burning them alive so that they fell the pain for as long as possible should be executed or jailed, depending on the circumstances.

Appeal to tradition, considering the Hell of eternal fire is neither biblical or for that matter doctrinal it doesn't matter.

[Galloism]

I get what you're saying. He's like a parent, and a parent punishes he's children so they would learn from their mistakes. But eternity in hell isnt going to do much if one spends a eternity in it. One can not use the wisdom they learned in hell if they spend all of eternity in it. It's like God is just saying "I love you, but you will suffer forever because of it."

A parent who punishes his or her children by burning them alive so that they fell the pain for as long as possible should be executed or jailed, depending on the circumstances.

Or, more likely, placed in an institution for mental health.