What if Lucifer is the good guy and God is the bad one?

[Galloism]

So, wait, in the Jewish faith, God is a backstabbing murderous psychopath?

If you could somehow give him Asperger's, he could post on NSG.

Considering pyschopathy is something of a human corporeal affliction it would be hard to affect something that was incorporeal not to mention something above humanities level .

Actually I was merely pointing out that, if Menassa is being both accurate and truthful with us, the Jews have made out their god to be a monster.

Whether you find that apt or not is a call only you can make.

[Benuty]

Why would a loving god want to ''ring you down to size'' if he sees you happy?

Because his name is "Jealous"?
http://biblehub.com/exodus/34-14.htm

There is a problem when one attaches a clearly human action like that. It seems to de-emphasize the actual point of the message by distracting the reader.

[Menassa]

Oh, no, not at all.
Satan is seen as an angelic servant of God like Michael or Gabriel.

So, wait, in the Jewish faith, God is a backstabbing murderous psychopath?

If you could somehow give him Asperger's, he could post on NSG.

I wouldn't say that.
I believe the prophet Isaiah says it best.

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

[Menassa]

You're still not making any sense.

Try remedial then.
You know people aren't always going to feed you everything, right? Some people are deliberately obtuse for sake of stalling an "argument", and though i don't perceive this as an "argument" exactly, i kinda see this tactic taking place.
Review the material perhaps?

So your deliberately not helping me see your point?
Why should I try?

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

So, wait, in the Jewish faith, God is a backstabbing murderous psychopath?

If you could somehow give him Asperger's, he could post on NSG.

I wouldn't say that.
I believe the prophet Isaiah says it best.

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

God is amoral, then?

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Because his name is "Jealous"?
http://biblehub.com/exodus/34-14.htm

There is a problem when one attaches a clearly human action like that. It seems to de-emphasize the actual point of the message by distracting the reader.

Well, I think we can't help it. We always ascribe what we know to things. Hence why we ascribe traits that are intrinsically human to a deity. Mind you, I agree that deities aren't bound by our societal norms or morals. They exist outside nature (if they exist at all).

[Menassa]

I wouldn't say that.
I believe the prophet Isaiah says it best.

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

God is amoral, then?

No, I wouldn't say that... if a being creates all good, and creates all evil, are they evil?

[Galloism]

So, wait, in the Jewish faith, God is a backstabbing murderous psychopath?

If you could somehow give him Asperger's, he could post on NSG.

I wouldn't say that.
I believe the prophet Isaiah says it best.

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

So, yes: God has no moral high ground. Humans can and have been more righteous than him.

Interesting God figure, I suppose.

[Menassa]

I wouldn't say that.
I believe the prophet Isaiah says it best.

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

So, yes: God has no moral high ground. Humans can and have been more righteous than him.

Interesting God figure, I suppose.

God is the moral high ground.

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

It's to test your faith in him, and to remind you that, no matter how happy your life is, he will always, always be able to cut you down to size, and, if your life is shitty, he can always, always make it so much worse.

Sounds like a god that loves his creation to me. Yep.

More like a kid that likes to fry ants on the sidewalk. He doesn't fry them to death, though, just makes it so they have to hobble, suffering and burning until the agony consumes them.

The concept of Satan as an agent of God is incompatible with concept of a loving God.

HaSatan, if I remember correctly, simply means 'opposer', which can be used to describe a human opponent or the divine, angel opponent who wants to prove to God that, yes, no matter how faithful you are, you will break at some point.

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

God is amoral, then?

No, I wouldn't say that... if a being creates all good, and creates all evil, are they evil?

They are neither good nor evil, nor cares about good and evil, being the creator of both. Therefore, I think God can be safely said to be amoral.

[Galloism]

God is amoral, then?

No, I wouldn't say that... if a being creates all good, and creates all evil, are they evil?

Lets say I create (via in vitro) children in a fertility clinic for couples who can't conceive.

However, for every child I create, I pay someone to kill a hooker.

Good, or evil?

[Menassa]

No, I wouldn't say that... if a being creates all good, and creates all evil, are they evil?

They are neither good nor evil, nor cares about good and evil, being the creator of both. Therefore, I think God can be safely said to be amoral.

A-moral as in not moral is something you just said cannot be.

[Benuty]

No, I wouldn't say that... if a being creates all good, and creates all evil, are they evil?

They are neither good nor evil, nor cares about good and evil, being the creator of both. Therefore, I think God can be safely said to be amoral.

Or perhaps on the grounds of ethical.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

No, I wouldn't say that... if a being creates all good, and creates all evil, are they evil?

Lets say I create (via in vitro) children in a fertility clinic for couples who can't conceive.

However, for every child I create, I pay someone to kill a hooker.

Good, or evil?

That's... um... bizarre. It's what it is.

[Galloism]

So, yes: God has no moral high ground. Humans can and have been more righteous than him.

Interesting God figure, I suppose.

God is the moral high ground.

Hard to be the moral high ground as the creator of all evil and suffering.

[Benuty]

No, I wouldn't say that... if a being creates all good, and creates all evil, are they evil?

Lets say I create (via in vitro) children in a fertility clinic for couples who can't conceive.

However, for every child I create, I pay someone to kill a hooker.

Good, or evil?

What if that hooker was dying and consented?

[Menassa]

No, I wouldn't say that... if a being creates all good, and creates all evil, are they evil?

Lets say I create (via in vitro) children in a fertility clinic for couples who can't conceive.

However, for every child I create, I pay someone to kill a hooker.

Good, or evil?

I think that's an over-simplification of the concept that is God, God on many accounts tells us that he is good no?

I don't see how a God who controls evil makes that God evil.

Rather I would think a God who cannot control evil is the problem.

[Galloism]

Lets say I create (via in vitro) children in a fertility clinic for couples who can't conceive.

However, for every child I create, I pay someone to kill a hooker.

Good, or evil?

What if that hooker was dying and consented?

Then it would be a shitty comparison of good and evil actions, wouldn't it?

[Galloism]

Lets say I create (via in vitro) children in a fertility clinic for couples who can't conceive.

However, for every child I create, I pay someone to kill a hooker.

Good, or evil?

I think that's an over-simplification of the concept that is God, God on many accounts tells us that he is good no?

I don't see how a God who controls evil makes that God evil.

Rather I would think a God who cannot control evil is the problem.

It makes God guilty of conspiracy to commit every evil action he directed or empowered. Conspirators are generally considered guilty whether or not they themselves pulled the trigger.

You make your God out to be like the mafia don of New York, and call him good because he gives to the United Way.

[Galloism]

Lets say I create (via in vitro) children in a fertility clinic for couples who can't conceive.

However, for every child I create, I pay someone to kill a hooker.

Good, or evil?

That's... um... bizarre. It's what it is.

Just pointing out the massive disconnect here.

[Menassa]

I think that's an over-simplification of the concept that is God, God on many accounts tells us that he is good no?

I don't see how a God who controls evil makes that God evil.

Rather I would think a God who cannot control evil is the problem.

It makes God guilty of conspiracy to commit every evil action he directed or empowered. Conspirators are generally considered guilty whether or not they themselves pulled the trigger.

You make your God out to be like the mafia don of New York, and call him good because he gives to the United Way.

*shrug*

How you see my God is of no consequence to me my friend.

As a being who is Omnibenevolent I would think evil to be necessary... but that's a larger topic.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

That's... um... bizarre. It's what it is.

Just pointing out the massive disconnect here.

As I was asking a second ago, Satan had a choice. When he decided to oppose god, he did so wittingly. He chose to. Could he then have become a servant, even when his actions weren't god's fault?

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

They are neither good nor evil, nor cares about good and evil, being the creator of both. Therefore, I think God can be safely said to be amoral.

A-moral as in not moral is something you just said cannot be.

He doesn't really seem to care about what is right or wrong, objectively, being the creator and origin of both, so, being an amoral force, it naturally follows that we have an amoral world- that does away with the need of theodicy quite nicely. God simply doesn't care about what is good or bad, because being the origin of both, he cannot be either.

[Galloism]

It makes God guilty of conspiracy to commit every evil action he directed or empowered. Conspirators are generally considered guilty whether or not they themselves pulled the trigger.

You make your God out to be like the mafia don of New York, and call him good because he gives to the United Way.

*shrug*

How you see my God is of no consequence to me my friend.

As a being who is Omnibenevolent I would think evil to be necessary... but that's a larger topic.

See, I don't see God that way. You say you do. I'm merely summing up the logical conclusion to the arguments you made in this thread.

Satan as a rebellious enemy of God makes far more sense, is scripturaloy congruent, leaves God holding the moral high ground, and makes the prophecies regarding Satan's destruction make far more sense. A god that says, "good job doing my will, now I'm going to destroy you" makes no fucking sense unless he's backstabbing his faithful servant.

Undoubtedly, that's another evil act.

It's flat out impossible to believe a god is loving when he hires someone to trip you up just so he can punish you.