Are Africans entitled to live in Europe?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I don't think entitlement would be a good word. Nobody is really "entitled" to anything. Now, that they have the right to immigrate? Yes, they do.

The OP is openly saying that he believes that Afrikan's are entitled to live in Europe

And that's where I disagree with the OP; in that they don't have any entitlements. Yes, Europeans fucked up their country in some aspects, but it doesn't mean they are entitled to anything other than the appropriate reparations.

Being entitled to immigrate is an entirely different concept I don't agree with; they have the RIGHT to move, but they are not ENTITLED to.

[Gujiristan]

Would you please explain how something that occurred hundreds of years ago is relevant to the supposed 'entitlement' that the OP is suggesting ? Afrika hasn't made use of their resources and it is their own god damn fault. So by your logic, it is perfectly acceptable to say that Babylon was destroyed by "The West " when they were thousands of years apart and had little interaction ? My Question is look at the technology that Europe and the Middle East developed independently from Afrika and the Natives in America. Does it look like a hugely 'rich' culture where it openly advocates the stoning of woman , rape , murder ?

Islam is where some African cultures got the idea of stoning women.
Your point still stands though.

[Imperial City-States]

The OP is openly saying that he believes that Afrikan's are entitled to live in Europe

They are.

Anyone's entitled to live wherever the hell they please.

No one is entitled to anything. You have to work for the things you want. If he means "Should they be allowed to immigrate to Europe if they so choose to work for it ? " Then yes I would agree however this entitlement B.S needs to stop.

And you can flip the coin and say that firearms are beneficial because they make hunting much easier and you can say that cell phones are detrimental because they allow for easier communication between terrorist cells within Afrika.

Every cloud has a coal lining.

How about the arbitrary colonial borders?

That is a major point that I'm glad you pointed out. I disagree with how the British, French, Germans Ect. divided up the Continent into slabs ( look at India and the Hindu's vs Muslims. ) While I do believe that Afrika (as a whole ) was better off in colonial rule as they actually had trade going on and had an industrial base. However I am not going to deny that there were many issues present within it such as the Colonial borders that you mentioned.

[Agritum]

They are.

Anyone's entitled to live wherever the hell they please.

No one is entitled to anything. You have to work for the things you want. If he means "Should they be allowed to immigrate to Europe if they so choose to work for it ? " Then yes I would agree however this entitlement B.S needs to stop.

Every cloud has a coal lining.

How about the arbitrary colonial borders?

That is a major point that I'm glad you pointed out. I disagree with how the British, French, Germans Ect. divided up the Continent into slabs ( look at India and the Hindu's vs Muslims. ) While I do believe that Afrika (as a whole ) was better off in colonial rule as they actually had trade going on and had an industrial base. However I am not going to deny that there were many issues present within it such as the Colonial borders that you mentioned.

....there is still trade going on in Africa, and I believe that there are some countries with an industrial base.

[Flau Byeregenie]

They are.

Anyone's entitled to live wherever the hell they please.

No one is entitled to anything.

Incorrect.

You have to work for the things you want.

Incorrect.

You have yet to make a single correct statement in this thread. It's amazing.

[The Holy Calradian Empire]

... I'm not sure what your point is.



I didn't say they were being accepted. I said they existed. Homosexuality has always existed in the world.

It existed, but it was not that common. Pure homosexuals (not bisexuals) have never been a majority in any major society.

Semantics. Common to me means that they're present all over the world. Gender politics and conceptions of gender are always integral in most world cultures. And frankly, considering the psychology of homophobia, we might not know just how many homosexuals there really are in the world.

A little borderline flaming, but really both sides have some point. Yes, Africa is worse off in some respects, but they're better off in other respects. For example, mobile phones have been beneficial to Africa. At the same time, guns haven't been beneficial to Africa, as tribal differences progressed from spear-fights to gun battles.

And you can flip the coin and say that firearms are beneficial because they make hunting much easier and you can say that cell phones are detrimental because they allow for easier communication between terrorist cells within Afrika.

Wow... That's a great argument for keeping Europeans the fuck out of Africa.

Compared to what?

l would keep in mind, that the Bantu tribes, when migrating southwards hundreds of years ago, left a path of destruction in their travels. It is ignorant to claim that only white people caused massive violence and genocide on that continent. To say it was a cultural wonderland of any kind is, at best, an exaggeration.

I'll submit to that and admit I exaggerated, but I would really like for Imperial City-States to stop fucking downplaying the atrocities committed against Africans by Europeans like a Dave Chapelle caricature of Nazis... And to stop saying moronic things in general, now that I look the thread over again.

[Imperial City-States]

No one is entitled to anything.

Incorrect.

You have to work for the things you want.

Incorrect.

You have yet to make a single correct statement in this thread. It's amazing.

Oh really so you advocate getting everything for free without having to work for anything ? No one is entitled to anything , sure they may have the right too but no one is ever entitled. Your being ignorant if you aren't choosing to see the truth involving it.

[Connori Pilgrims]

So... Yeah... Guys... Why are you trying to go by what the OP is saying?

I mean... For Fuck's Sake.

I'd guess its to stay within topic.

But since the topic from the beginning was designed entirely for the purpose of trolling...

[Imperial City-States]

No one is entitled to anything. You have to work for the things you want. If he means "Should they be allowed to immigrate to Europe if they so choose to work for it ? " Then yes I would agree however this entitlement B.S needs to stop.







That is a major point that I'm glad you pointed out. I disagree with how the British, French, Germans Ect. divided up the Continent into slabs ( look at India and the Hindu's vs Muslims. ) While I do believe that Afrika (as a whole ) was better off in colonial rule as they actually had trade going on and had an industrial base. However I am not going to deny that there were many issues present within it such as the Colonial borders that you mentioned.

....there is still trade going on in Africa, and I believe that there are some countries with an industrial base.

Yes some still exist however it is no where near what it was under European occupation

[Aberwich]

No one is entitled to anything. You have to work for the things you want. If he means "Should they be allowed to immigrate to Europe if they so choose to work for it ? " Then yes I would agree however this entitlement B.S needs to stop.







That is a major point that I'm glad you pointed out. I disagree with how the British, French, Germans Ect. divided up the Continent into slabs ( look at India and the Hindu's vs Muslims. ) While I do believe that Afrika (as a whole ) was better off in colonial rule as they actually had trade going on and had an industrial base. However I am not going to deny that there were many issues present within it such as the Colonial borders that you mentioned.

....there is still trade going on in Africa, and I believe that there are some countries with an industrial base.

The situation in some African..... "nations".. has improved markedly since the end of the cold war, as funding for various insurgent groups dried up.

As for industrial bases though... the only nation that easily comes to mind in sub Saharan Africa as an industrial nation, is South Africa. But for a long time that nation was ruled by an Afrikaner elite, which brought many skills and attitudes from Europe. Whether African nations can (given current geopolitical trends), or even should be industrial, will be a major question. There may be some movement in that direction as the supply of cheap labor in east Asia slowly dries up, and corporations look elsewhere.

[Agritum]

....there is still trade going on in Africa, and I believe that there are some countries with an industrial base.

Yes some still exist however it is no where near what it was under European occupation

And you base this claim on...?

[Gujiristan]

....there is still trade going on in Africa, and I believe that there are some countries with an industrial base.

North Africa in particular.

Oh, and China is Africa's (as a whole) biggest trade partner. Chinese expatriates are building up the infrastructure in Africa that Europeans never managed on a large scale.

[Imperial City-States]

It existed, but it was not that common. Pure homosexuals (not bisexuals) have never been a majority in any major society.

Semantics. Common to me means that they're present all over the world. Gender politics and conceptions of gender are always integral in most world cultures. And frankly, considering the psychology of homophobia, we might not know just how many homosexuals there really are in the world.

And you can flip the coin and say that firearms are beneficial because they make hunting much easier and you can say that cell phones are detrimental because they allow for easier communication between terrorist cells within Afrika.

Wow... That's a great argument for keeping Europeans the fuck out of Africa.

l would keep in mind, that the Bantu tribes, when migrating southwards hundreds of years ago, left a path of destruction in their travels. It is ignorant to claim that only white people caused massive violence and genocide on that continent. To say it was a cultural wonderland of any kind is, at best, an exaggeration.

I'll submit to that and admit I exaggerated, but I would really like for Imperial City-States to stop fucking downplaying the atrocities committed against Africans by Europeans like a Dave Chapelle caricature of Nazis.

And yet more atrocities have been committed by Afrikans to other Afrikans then any Europeans and yet you are not bitching and complaining about that are you ? You can't deny that Afrika was both Economically and politically more stable under colonial rule then it is now , if you do your just being ignorant. I am not saying by any stretch of the imagination that it was right in what happened however I am saying that the country was better off

[Connori Pilgrims]

No one is entitled to anything.

Incorrect.

You have to work for the things you want.

Incorrect.

You have yet to make a single correct statement in this thread. It's amazing.

No authority means you have no say on who is incorrect or correct.

You have also yet to answer my earlier query. Are you a goddamn European? Because if you are, then I dare, no demand you right now to sell your possessions and give it away to Africans. Or better yet, give your land to an African immigrant family immediately. They are after all as you say, entitled to it.

If you aren't a European, then the same point stands. You love Africans so much, give away your property to them.

[Gujiristan]

And yet more atrocities have been committed by Afrikans to other Afrikans then any Europeans and yet you are not bitching and complaining about that are you ? You can't deny that Afrika was both Economically and politically more stable under colonial rule then it is now , if you do your just being ignorant. I am not saying by any stretch of the imagination that it was right in what happened however I am saying that the country was better off

You're 'ignorant' in terms of claiming Africa was more economically stable. Individual colonies had stable economic ties with their home countries but very little between each other, North African nations excluded. I read somewhere about something exported from a colony to Britain, then exported to France, and then exported from France back to a colony neighbouring the original producer.

[Imperial City-States]

Yes some still exist however it is no where near what it was under European occupation

And you base this claim on...?

Simple History , Look at every Afrikan nation when it was under a Colonial power and look at it in the present. The only exception is going to be in Northern Afrika that I closer to the Middle East.

[Agritum]

....there is still trade going on in Africa, and I believe that there are some countries with an industrial base.

North Africa in particular.

Oh, and China is Africa's (as a whole) biggest trade partner. Chinese expatriates are building up the infrastructure in Africa that Europeans never managed on a large scale.

Angola made quite a dime exporting oil to the world, and if that isn't trade....

[Aberwich]

Snip.

Wow... That's a great argument for keeping Europeans the fuck out of Africa.

l would keep in mind, that the Bantu tribes, when migrating southwards hundreds of years ago, left a path of destruction in their travels. It is ignorant to claim that only white people caused massive violence and genocide on that continent. To say it was a cultural wonderland of any kind is, at best, an exaggeration.

I'll submit to that and admit I exaggerated, but I would really like for Imperial City-States to stop fucking downplaying the atrocities committed against Africans by Europeans like a Dave Chapelle caricature of Nazis... And to stop saying moronic things in general, now that I look the thread over again.

No doubt white people committed atrocities in Africa. But at the end of the day, at least (western) Europeans and many Americans try to own up. Westerners would generally not tolerate the ultra nationalism in western nations, that often exists in Africa, Asia, and to a more limited extent, Eastern Europe.

[Agritum]

And you base this claim on...?

Simple History , Look at every Afrikan nation when it was under a Colonial power and look at it in the present. The only exception is going to be in Northern Afrika that I closer to the Middle East.

So you are making a blanket statement of gigantic proportions and shifting the burden of proof on me.

Nice.

[Imperial City-States]

And yet more atrocities have been committed by Afrikans to other Afrikans then any Europeans and yet you are not bitching and complaining about that are you ? You can't deny that Afrika was both Economically and politically more stable under colonial rule then it is now , if you do your just being ignorant. I am not saying by any stretch of the imagination that it was right in what happened however I am saying that the country was better off

You're 'ignorant' in terms of claiming Africa was more economically stable. Individual colonies had stable economic ties with their home countries but very little between each other, North African nations excluded. I read somewhere about something exported from a colony to Britain, then exported to France, and then exported from France back to a colony neighbouring the original producer.

But is that not a form of stability ? More so then what is present in Modern Day Afrika.

[Parhe]

....there is still trade going on in Africa, and I believe that there are some countries with an industrial base.

North Africa in particular.

Oh, and China is Africa's (as a whole) biggest trade partner. Chinese expatriates are building up the infrastructure in Africa that Europeans never managed on a large scale.

To be fair China's population today is three to four times larger than Europe's in 1900(as well as a untied single nation compared to multiple rivals in Europe) and advances in technology across the world has made easier travel and communication over long distances.

Though many African people still seem caution about the China's aid. Possibly in part because of Africa's history during the age of imperialism and possibly the threat China is seen as in Southeast Asia.

[The Holy Calradian Empire]

Semantics. Common to me means that they're present all over the world. Gender politics and conceptions of gender are always integral in most world cultures. And frankly, considering the psychology of homophobia, we might not know just how many homosexuals there really are in the world.



Wow... That's a great argument for keeping Europeans the fuck out of Africa.



I'll submit to that and admit I exaggerated, but I would really like for Imperial City-States to stop fucking downplaying the atrocities committed against Africans by Europeans like a Dave Chapelle caricature of Nazis.

And yet more atrocities have been committed by Afrikans to other Afrikans then any Europeans and yet you are not bitching and complaining about that are you ? You can't deny that Afrika was both Economically and politically more stable under colonial rule then it is now , if you do your just being ignorant. I am not saying by any stretch of the imagination that it was right in what happened however I am saying that the country was better off

You know, if you keep saying stupid things, I really should just not encourage your participation in this thread.

Incorrect.


Incorrect.

You have yet to make a single correct statement in this thread. It's amazing.

No authority means you have no say on who is incorrect or correct.

You have also yet to answer my earlier query. Are you a goddamn European? Because if you are, then I dare, no demand you right now to sell your possessions and give it away to Africans. Or better yet, give your land to an African immigrant family immediately. They are after all as you say, entitled to it.

If you aren't a European, then the same point stands. You love Africans so much, give away your property to them.

... If you're a European, you should give your money to them.

Though, frankly, that would be mostly pointless, which, again, could we just ignore what the OP said and focus on the real issues? What the suffering African nations need are enough political stability to stand up to the multinationals that screw them over on paying for the raw resources.

[Imperial City-States]

Simple History , Look at every Afrikan nation when it was under a Colonial power and look at it in the present. The only exception is going to be in Northern Afrika that I closer to the Middle East.

So you are making a blanket statement of gigantic proportions and shifting the burden of proof on me.

Nice.

Are you or are you not Denying that Afrika was more stable under Colonial rule then it is now. Simple Question

[Gujiristan]

So you are making a blanket statement of gigantic proportions and shifting the burden of proof on me.

Nice.

Are you or are you not Denying that Afrika was more stable under Colonial rule then it is now. Simple Question

The reason they are unstable is because of the arbitrary colonial borders...Tutsis and Hutus come to mind?

[Imperial City-States]

And yet more atrocities have been committed by Afrikans to other Afrikans then any Europeans and yet you are not bitching and complaining about that are you ? You can't deny that Afrika was both Economically and politically more stable under colonial rule then it is now , if you do your just being ignorant. I am not saying by any stretch of the imagination that it was right in what happened however I am saying that the country was better off

You know, if you keep saying stupid things, I really should just not encourage your participation in this thread.

No authority means you have no say on who is incorrect or correct.

You have also yet to answer my earlier query. Are you a goddamn European? Because if you are, then I dare, no demand you right now to sell your possessions and give it away to Africans. Or better yet, give your land to an African immigrant family immediately. They are after all as you say, entitled to it.

If you aren't a European, then the same point stands. You love Africans so much, give away your property to them.

... If you're a European, you should give your money to them.

Though, frankly, that would be mostly pointless, which, again, could we just ignore what the OP said and focus on the real issues? What the suffering African nations need are enough political stability to stand up to the multinationals that screw them over on paying for the raw resources.

So your denying that Afrika was more stable under Colonial rule then it currently ? Is that really what your doing. The Afrikan nations are suffering because of their own ignorance in running their nation combine with general uneducated populations. If your not willing to take steps forward to prevent it I have no sympathy for people who are exploited.