Are Africans entitled to live in Europe?

[Agritum]

Uh.

What do you think is ultimately responsible for all of those conditions, exactly?

And yes, that includes climate.

Like I said, the people who don't want to think...

Ebil white peoples controls teh weather>? Wow, I am so glad I joined the Nazi Party! Who knew we would have such awesome power!

You're straw-manning a bit, Flower. I didn't see Flau mentioning white people anywhere in his post.

[Parhe]

With some exceptions (and realizing I live in America, so this is an abstract, externally imposed view), I would say no.

Multicultural societies are usually not very stable. Not to mention there is a major gulf between all the European societies, and many African societies. For instance, in many parts of sub Saharan Africa, homosexuality is still met with extreme disdain.

Yeah, no. Christianity and Islam kind of destroyed the rich homosexual culture of Africa.

The homophobia in Uganda can wholly be attributed to, ironically enough, American televangelists and visiting Protestants. Homosexuality has been common in Africa for a very long time, as it has in all parts of the world.

How does that matter? Both were initially brought into Africa from the Middle East. Plus in Europe and the Americas, which has historically been Christian, homosexuality is being more accepted. It isn't like Christianity spread throughout Europe and the Americas entirely peacefully.

[The Holy Calradian Empire]

Go read a fucking book.

Africa was comparatively a goddamn cultural wonderland before the Europeans arrived.

Culture doesn't make you an Empire now does it ? The op is referring to the modern era. If your idea of "culture " is mutilation and rape of women then yes you're right. But wait we can't forget the countless thousands who are killed because of tribal differences. Sure a real rich culture you got there.

I don't fucking care what the OP is talking about.

You can't just fucking ignore what Africa was like before the Europeans and arrived and then say they're fucking better off.

That would be very fucking stupid of anyone to do.

[Gujiristan]

Most of the time it was due to lack of resources, competing empires, or famine.

Afrika is rich in resources for those who choose to pursue them. It's their own damn fault for not using the resources they have. The fact that the governments ( at least in the region of Southern Afrika ) take away business's from White owners who run the business's well and effectively and give them to unqualified blacks who don't know a damn about it let alone have an education.

1. Africa, not Afrika. You've been reading 'Afrikaans' too much...
2. Not all of Africa is -that- rich in resources. Mozamblank, not even labeled?
Also it's not their fault that they aren't using some of the resources they have. You do realize that resource extraction requires money? Nigeria has the funds from petroleum to subsidize uranium mines in the north. As for blacks who can't run them properly, it's you imperialists that have to blame for the lack of education in the first place. It's like Stalin taking the grain from Ukrainian peasants and then blaming foreign governments for trying to tarnish the image of the Soviet Union by telling Ukrainian peasants to starve themselves.

[Aberwich]

With some exceptions (and realizing I live in America, so this is an abstract, externally imposed view), I would say no.

Multicultural societies are usually not very stable. Not to mention there is a major gulf between all the European societies, and many African societies. For instance, in many parts of sub Saharan Africa, homosexuality is still met with extreme disdain.

Yeah, no. Christianity and Islam kind of destroyed the rich homosexual culture of Africa.

The homophobia in Uganda can wholly be attributed to, ironically enough, American televangelists and visiting Protestants. Homosexuality has been common in Africa for a very long time, as it has in all parts of the world.

It's not just Uganda either, I remember seeing footage a few years ago of Robert Mugabe giving a press conference denouncing homosexuality as a white colonialist plot. Granted he is an unpopular, likely increasingly senile dictator, but those views are allowed to stand none the less.

Also, homosexuality is not very accepted in the Arab world, where Islam originated from. It was also not tolerated in many of the pagan cultures of pre Christian Europe. Also, for a long time in China (longer than in the west) homosexuality was on the list of mental disorders.

It is a bit deceiving to say it has always been accepted everywhere.

[Parhe]

Culture doesn't make you an Empire now does it ? The op is referring to the modern era. If your idea of "culture " is mutilation and rape of women then yes you're right. But wait we can't forget the countless thousands who are killed because of tribal differences. Sure a real rich culture you got there.

I don't fucking care what the OP is talking about.

You can't just fucking ignore what Africa was like before the Europeans and arrived and then say they're fucking better off.

That would be very fucking stupid of anyone to do.

By what standards are we talking about anyway? Anything objective?

[Nazi Flower Power]

The OP is referring to modern history ( back to the 1700's + in my book ) is where the primary exploitation of Afrika occurred. And if you will how exactly did these 'Empires' Fall ? When you look at modern history Afrika was better off under colonialism , after it left it descended into an utter hellhole with idiots killing each other over religion ,race and tribes.

Go read a fucking book.

Africa was comparatively a goddamn cultural wonderland before the Europeans arrived.

Compared to what?

[Spartan Philidelphia]

Culture doesn't make you an Empire now does it ? The op is referring to the modern era. If your idea of "culture " is mutilation and rape of women then yes you're right. But wait we can't forget the countless thousands who are killed because of tribal differences. Sure a real rich culture you got there.

I don't fucking care what the OP is talking about.

You can't just fucking ignore what Africa was like before the Europeans and arrived and then say they're fucking better off.

That would be very fucking stupid of anyone to do.

King Leopold II of Belgium and the Congo Free State.

[The Holy Calradian Empire]

Yeah, no. Christianity and Islam kind of destroyed the rich homosexual culture of Africa.

The homophobia in Uganda can wholly be attributed to, ironically enough, American televangelists and visiting Protestants. Homosexuality has been common in Africa for a very long time, as it has in all parts of the world.

How does that matter? Both were initially brought into Africa from the Middle East. Plus in Europe and the Americas, which has historically been Christian, homosexuality is being more accepted. It isn't like Christianity spread throughout Europe and the Americas entirely peacefully.

... I'm not sure what your point is.

Yeah, no. Christianity and Islam kind of destroyed the rich homosexual culture of Africa.

The homophobia in Uganda can wholly be attributed to, ironically enough, American televangelists and visiting Protestants. Homosexuality has been common in Africa for a very long time, as it has in all parts of the world.

It's not just Uganda either, I remember seeing footage a few years ago of Robert Mugabe giving a press conference denouncing homosexuality as a white colonialist plot. Granted he is an unpopular, likely increasingly senile dictator, but those views are allowed to stand none the less.

Also, homosexuality is not very accepted in the Arab world, where Islam originated from. It was also not tolerated in many of the pagan cultures of pre Christian Europe. Also, for a long time in China (longer than in the west) homosexuality was on the list of mental disorders.

It is a bit deceiving to say it has always been accepted everywhere.

I didn't say they were being accepted. I said they existed. Homosexuality has always existed in the world.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Yeah, no. Christianity and Islam kind of destroyed the rich homosexual culture of Africa.

The homophobia in Uganda can wholly be attributed to, ironically enough, American televangelists and visiting Protestants. Homosexuality has been common in Africa for a very long time, as it has in all parts of the world.

How does that matter? Both were initially brought into Africa from the Middle East. Plus in Europe and the Americas, which has historically been Christian, homosexuality is being more accepted. It isn't like Christianity spread throughout Europe and the Americas entirely peacefully.

The Americas were not remotely Christian until 500 years back.

Pre-Columbian America was polytheist until the Europeans came and "Christianized" the continent, so even by that much Christianity is a fairly new thing in the Americas and much older in Europe since the Roman Empire, but Europe and the Americans have only been Christian for much less than the Middle Eastern roots, which is 400 years even before Roman Catholicism approx.

[Imperial City-States]

Culture doesn't make you an Empire now does it ? The op is referring to the modern era. If your idea of "culture " is mutilation and rape of women then yes you're right. But wait we can't forget the countless thousands who are killed because of tribal differences. Sure a real rich culture you got there.

I don't fucking care what the OP is talking about.

You can't just fucking ignore what Africa was like before the Europeans and arrived and then say they're fucking better off.

Would you please explain how something that occurred hundreds of years ago is relevant to the supposed 'entitlement' that the OP is suggesting ? Afrika hasn't made use of their resources and it is their own god damn fault. So by your logic, it is perfectly acceptable to say that Babylon was destroyed by "The West " when they were thousands of years apart and had little interaction ? My Question is look at the technology that Europe and the Middle East developed independently from Afrika and the Natives in America. Does it look like a hugely 'rich' culture where it openly advocates the stoning of woman , rape , murder ?

[Aberwich]

Go read a fucking book.

Africa was comparatively a goddamn cultural wonderland before the Europeans arrived.

Compared to what?

l would keep in mind, that the Bantu tribes, when migrating southwards hundreds of years ago, left a path of destruction in their travels. It is ignorant to claim that only white people caused massive violence and genocide on that continent. To say it was a cultural wonderland of any kind is, at best, an exaggeration.

[Agritum]

I'd limit this thread only to people with a decent knowledge of African history and of the underlying issues of the continent, but then there wouldn't be anyone left here.

[Gujiristan]

Culture doesn't make you an Empire now does it ? The op is referring to the modern era. If your idea of "culture " is mutilation and rape of women then yes you're right. But wait we can't forget the countless thousands who are killed because of tribal differences. Sure a real rich culture you got there.

I don't fucking care what the OP is talking about.

You can't just fucking ignore what Africa was like before the Europeans and arrived and then say they're fucking better off.

That would be very fucking stupid of anyone to do.

A little borderline flaming, but really both sides have some point. Yes, Africa is worse off in some respects, but they're better off in other respects. For example, mobile phones have been beneficial to Africa. At the same time, guns haven't been beneficial to Africa, as tribal differences progressed from spear-fights to gun battles.

[Nazi Flower Power]

Ebil white peoples controls teh weather>? Wow, I am so glad I joined the Nazi Party! Who knew we would have such awesome power!

So you were the ones who stole my research!

I want a percentage of the profits out of it.

You should be proud that your research is being used for the good of the Reich! It is selfish to demand more!

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I don't fucking care what the OP is talking about.

You can't just fucking ignore what Africa was like before the Europeans and arrived and then say they're fucking better off.

Would you please explain how something that occurred hundreds of years ago is relevant to the supposed 'entitlement' that the OP is suggesting ? Afrika hasn't made use of their resources and it is their own god damn fault. So by your logic, it is perfectly acceptable to say that Babylon was destroyed by "The West " when they were thousands of years apart and had little interaction ? My Question is look at the technology that Europe and the Middle East developed independently from Afrika and the Natives in America. Does it look like a hugely 'rich' culture where it openly advocates the stoning of woman , rape , murder ?

I don't think entitlement would be a good word. Nobody is really "entitled" to anything. Now, that they have the right to immigrate? Yes, they do.

[Imperial City-States]

I don't fucking care what the OP is talking about.

You can't just fucking ignore what Africa was like before the Europeans and arrived and then say they're fucking better off.

That would be very fucking stupid of anyone to do.

A little borderline flaming, but really both sides have some point. Yes, Africa is worse off in some respects, but they're better off in other respects. For example, mobile phones have been beneficial to Africa. At the same time, guns haven't been beneficial to Africa, as tribal differences progressed from spear-fights to gun battles.

And you can flip the coin and say that firearms are beneficial because they make hunting much easier and you can say that cell phones are detrimental because they allow for easier communication between terrorist cells within Afrika.

[Nazi Flower Power]

Go read a fucking book.

Africa was comparatively a goddamn cultural wonderland before the Europeans arrived.

To say African peoples had their own distinct and independent cultures and polities is one thing (this is very much true). To call them anything like a "cultural wonderland" is quite another (depends on one's definition of culture and whether said culture is a good one).

^Very much this.

[Imperial City-States]

Would you please explain how something that occurred hundreds of years ago is relevant to the supposed 'entitlement' that the OP is suggesting ? Afrika hasn't made use of their resources and it is their own god damn fault. So by your logic, it is perfectly acceptable to say that Babylon was destroyed by "The West " when they were thousands of years apart and had little interaction ? My Question is look at the technology that Europe and the Middle East developed independently from Afrika and the Natives in America. Does it look like a hugely 'rich' culture where it openly advocates the stoning of woman , rape , murder ?

I don't think entitlement would be a good word. Nobody is really "entitled" to anything. Now, that they have the right to immigrate? Yes, they do.

The OP is openly saying that he believes that Afrikan's are entitled to live in Europe

[Aberwich]

How does that matter? Both were initially brought into Africa from the Middle East. Plus in Europe and the Americas, which has historically been Christian, homosexuality is being more accepted. It isn't like Christianity spread throughout Europe and the Americas entirely peacefully.

... I'm not sure what your point is.

It's not just Uganda either, I remember seeing footage a few years ago of Robert Mugabe giving a press conference denouncing homosexuality as a white colonialist plot. Granted he is an unpopular, likely increasingly senile dictator, but those views are allowed to stand none the less.

Also, homosexuality is not very accepted in the Arab world, where Islam originated from. It was also not tolerated in many of the pagan cultures of pre Christian Europe. Also, for a long time in China (longer than in the west) homosexuality was on the list of mental disorders.

It is a bit deceiving to say it has always been accepted everywhere.

I didn't say they were being accepted. I said they existed. Homosexuality has always existed in the world.

It existed, but it was not that common. Pure homosexuals (not bisexuals) have never been a majority in any major society.

[Gujiristan]

A little borderline flaming, but really both sides have some point. Yes, Africa is worse off in some respects, but they're better off in other respects. For example, mobile phones have been beneficial to Africa. At the same time, guns haven't been beneficial to Africa, as tribal differences progressed from spear-fights to gun battles.

And you can flip the coin and say that firearms are beneficial because they make hunting much easier and you can say that cell phones are detrimental because they allow for easier communication between terrorist cells within Afrika.

Every cloud has a coal lining.

How about the arbitrary colonial borders?

[Flau Byeregenie]

I don't think entitlement would be a good word. Nobody is really "entitled" to anything. Now, that they have the right to immigrate? Yes, they do.

The OP is openly saying that he believes that Afrikan's are entitled to live in Europe

They are.

Anyone's entitled to live wherever the hell they please.

[Parhe]

How does that matter? Both were initially brought into Africa from the Middle East. Plus in Europe and the Americas, which has historically been Christian, homosexuality is being more accepted. It isn't like Christianity spread throughout Europe and the Americas entirely peacefully.

The Americas were not remotely Christian until 500 years back.

Pre-Columbian America was polytheist until the Europeans came and "Christianized" the continent, so even by that much Christianity is a fairly new thing in the Americas and much older in Europe since the Roman Empire, but Europe and the Americans have only been Christian for much less than the Middle Eastern roots, which is 400 years even before Roman Catholicism approx.

Reason being I originally had Europe in the sentence than later on added the Americas. As for the Middle East I was implying that, since that is where Christianity first entered the African continent from. Sorry for the mishap.

I am saying, The Holy Calradian Empire, that you cannot entirely blame Christianity for the anti-homophobia present in parts of Africa since homosexualy has become more accepted in both areas that were Christian before Africa, such as parts of Europe and the Americas, and areas that became Christian later than Africa, such as South Korea, where they are about a third of the population today. Not to say the situation is perfect in South Korea but I remember a study a year or two ago saying South Korea is more open to homosexuals that African countries.

[Agritum]

I don't think entitlement would be a good word. Nobody is really "entitled" to anything. Now, that they have the right to immigrate? Yes, they do.

The OP is openly saying that he believes that Afrikan's are entitled to live in Europe

The OP is also a poorly disguised troll who's most likely having fun at people throwing fits over this thread, may I add.

[The Holy Calradian Empire]

So... Yeah... Guys... Why are you trying to go by what the OP is saying?

I mean... For Fuck's Sake.