Obama orders pentagon to prepare for afghan withdrawl

[The Broken Russian States]

Last time we did that, this happened

We're the ones who armed future terrorists in the first place, in order to get the Soviets out of Afghanistan.

And guess who wouldn't have been armed if Russia invaded?

Its Russia's fault

[Libertarian California]

We need to leave Afghanistan immediately.

[Libertarian California]

Last time we did that, this happened

funny thing is most if not all the terrorist's who struck the tower's weren't from Afghanistan. At least from my understanding a number of them were Saudi. Now if you want to argue that we needed to go into Afghanistan to get Bin Laden, you can try to argue that, However I can and will counter saying it could have been done cheaper by using special forces and the CIA instead of a giant army.

I'm pretty sure if under the right leadership and with the necessary resources, the CIA could have found bin Laden within two-three years of 9/11.

[Inquilabstan]

And guess who wouldn't have been armed if Russia invaded?

Its Russia's fault

I believe you mean to say that "if Russia hadn't invaded?"
And you do realize that Jimmy carter began arming the Mujaheddin BEFORE the soviet intervention, and that the Soviets repeatedly refused to intervene despite DRA requests for military assistance, well before Storm-333.

[The Broken Russian States]

And guess who wouldn't have been armed if Russia invaded?

Its Russia's fault

I believe you mean to say that "if Russia hadn't invaded?"
And you do realize that Jimmy carter began arming the Mujaheddin BEFORE the soviet intervention, and that the Soviets repeatedly refused to intervene despite DRA requests for military assistance, well before Storm-333.

That fuckwagon from Georgia was in on it too?

Shit.

Why was the only Georgian president SOOOO BADDDD

[Sun Wukong]

I believe you mean to say that "if Russia hadn't invaded?"
And you do realize that Jimmy carter began arming the Mujaheddin BEFORE the soviet intervention, and that the Soviets repeatedly refused to intervene despite DRA requests for military assistance, well before Storm-333.

That fuckwagon from Georgia was in on it too?

Shit.

Why was the only Georgian president SOOOO BADDDD

If it makes you feel better, Russia's most famous Georgian leader is not well liked either.

[Inquilabstan]

If it makes you feel better, Russia's most famous Georgian leader is not well liked either.

The Russians still like him. Weird, eh?

[Sun Wukong]

If it makes you feel better, Russia's most famous Georgian leader is not well liked either.

The Russians still like him. Weird, eh?

Russians are masochists.

They live in Russia, after all.

[Luziyca]

What the hell happened to that USA that loved to install military dictatorships in the place of regimes unfriendly to them especially in way more relevant situations like this is beyond me.

Pressure to curb its imperialism, probably.

Anyways, I bet that it will be a lie.

[Alawiite]

The Afghan President is not to be trusted for he is a villain to the Pashtun people. Only Allah could save Afghanistan at this point. The Americans and Al-Qeada started this they can't fix it. Which is why Iran should Annex Afghanistan to insure true peace in Afghanistan.

[Chronodosia]

The Afghan President is not to be trusted for he is a villain to the Pashtun people. Only Allah could save Afghanistan at this point. The Americans and Al-Qeada started this they can't fix it. Which is why Iran should Annex Afghanistan to insure true peace in Afghanistan.

I think all the Islamic Nations should just join up in a coalition and do what they do best, Be ahead of everyone else as the Islamic nations were the most progressive a long time ago. But the crusades killed it(For you people that like the pope you can see how much I frickin care about your opinion. NOn WHAT SO FRICKIN EVER.) Dam you Pope of the time you rat-b@$t@rd.

EDIT: the POPE of the time of the crusades!

[Connori Pilgrims]

The Afghan President is not to be trusted for he is a villain to the Pashtun people. Only Allah could save Afghanistan at this point. The Americans and Al-Qeada started this they can't fix it. Which is why Iran should Annex Afghanistan to insure true peace in Afghanistan.

I think all the Islamic Nations should just join up in a coalition and do what they do best, Be ahead of everyone else as the Islamic nations were the most progressive a long time ago. But the crusades killed it(For you people that like the pope you can see how much I frickin care about your opinion. NOn WHAT SO FRICKIN EVER.) Dam you Pope of the time you rat-b@$t@rd.

EDIT: the POPE of the time of the crusades!

HAHAHAHA... another one. He can't even name the popes (there were many in the time of the Crusades) he's supposed to be angry at. LOLOLOLOL.

Anyway, Islam's cultural retardation can be traced less to the Crusades and more to the Mongol invasions. While the Crusades from Second onward were miserable failures, the Siege and subsequent Sacking of Bagdhad by the Ilkhanate annihilated not only the Abbasid Caliphate (and Bagdhad's people and agriculture) but a great bulk of Islam's intellectual and cultural output. The successor Ottoman empire did little to repair the damage, to make things worse.

So yeah, want to blame someone for Islam's current backwardness and retardation, blame the Mongols.

[Farnhamia]

I think all the Islamic Nations should just join up in a coalition and do what they do best, Be ahead of everyone else as the Islamic nations were the most progressive a long time ago. But the crusades killed it(For you people that like the pope you can see how much I frickin care about your opinion. NOn WHAT SO FRICKIN EVER.) Dam you Pope of the time you rat-b@$t@rd.

EDIT: the POPE of the time of the crusades!

HAHAHAHA... another one. He can't even name the popes (there were many in the time of the Crusades) he's supposed to be angry at. LOLOLOLOL.

Anyway, Islam's cultural retardation can be traced less to the Crusades and more to the Mongol invasions. While the Crusades from Second onward were miserable failures, the Siege and subsequent Sacking of Bagdhad by the Ilkhanate annihilated not only the Abbasid Caliphate (and Bagdhad's people and agriculture) but a great bulk of Islam's intellectual and cultural output. The successor Ottoman empire did little to repair the damage, to make things worse.

So yeah, want to blame someone for Islam's current backwardness and retardation, blame the Mongols.

Not really. The continual assault of the Crusades did freeze the Muslim world into a defensive attitude towards the West. That meant that even after the Crusader states had been destroyed, the Muslims saw anything emanating from Western Europe with deep suspicion.

[Connori Pilgrims]

Not really. The continual assault of the Crusades did freeze the Muslim world into a defensive attitude towards the West. That meant that even after the Crusader states had been destroyed, the Muslims saw anything emanating from Western Europe with deep suspicion.

True, but if anything, the Crusades were really but the final kick that sent Islam into backwardness. You're right that from the Crusades on they have become more suspicious of Western Europe and became locked in the siege mentality; but this fostering of close-mindedness IMO exacerbated the knowledge & culture loss suffered from the Mongols. A loss that IMO if it didn't happen could have moderated Islamic attitudes, or at the very least allowed Islam to continue some kind of progress beyond what the Ottomans gave it instead of the total stagnation that happened.

[Republic of Coldwater]

Yey

We shouldn't have been in that place after 2004 anyway. Oh yeah, we could have killed Bin Laden during the battle of Tora Bora, but stupid NATO Stopped us from placing explosives around the mountain range, allowing Bin Laden to escape to Pakistan.

[New Chalcedon]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/obama-orders-pentagon-to-prepare-for-complete-withdrawal-from-afghanistan/2014/02/25/cfae2206-9e49-11e3-a050-dc3322a94fa7_story.html


What they won't tell you: It's only because the President of Afghanistan /refuses/ to sign the security agreement once more. Thus, we have no other option than to get out of afghanistan.

So, I'd say an accomplishment for the President of Afghanistan, not the current sitting President of the U.S.

Oh, shocker - it's not like US troops have been there for twice as long as they fought WWII or anything.

[Mike the Progressive]

The Afghan President is not to be trusted for he is a villain to the Pashtun people. Only Allah could save Afghanistan at this point. The Americans and Al-Qeada started this they can't fix it. Which is why Iran should Annex Afghanistan to insure true peace in Afghanistan.

Wait...what? That's a horrible idea.

[The Nihilistic view]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/obama-orders-pentagon-to-prepare-for-complete-withdrawal-from-afghanistan/2014/02/25/cfae2206-9e49-11e3-a050-dc3322a94fa7_story.html


What they won't tell you: It's only because the President of Afghanistan /refuses/ to sign the security agreement once more. Thus, we have no other option than to get out of afghanistan.

So, I'd say an accomplishment for the President of Afghanistan, not the current sitting President of the U.S.

Well he may not have signed the agreement with the US but he has certainly just signed his own death warrant. Just another case of pride before a fall.

[The Nihilistic view]

Yey

We shouldn't have been in that place after 2004 anyway. Oh yeah, we could have killed Bin Laden during the battle of Tora Bora, but stupid NATO Stopped us from placing explosives around the mountain range, allowing Bin Laden to escape to Pakistan.

The US is part of NATO.


"OH MY GOD, WE STOPPED OURSELVES FROM KILLING THE BIN MAN!!!!! WE ARE SO STUPID!!"


Seriously, since when does the US give a fuck about what anybody else thinks if they want to kill somebody? Didn't bother the US technically launching a mini invasion of Pakistan to kill him in the end did it.

[New Chalcedon]

The Afghan President is not to be trusted for he is a villain to the Pashtun people. Only Allah could save Afghanistan at this point. The Americans and Al-Qeada started this they can't fix it. Which is why Iran should Annex Afghanistan to insure true peace in Afghanistan.

Er, no. Just no. For starters, Iran's not terribly likely to be especially nice to the Pashtun population either - it's not like the Pashtuns are in charge in Tehran. For seconds, the Pashtun are a plurality of Afghans, not the majority - and anything that pleases the Pashtun is likely to displease the Tajiks, and the Hazara, and the Uzbek.

No, I agree that Karzai isn't the solution to anyone's problem - except maybe the "problem" of having too much money, in which case he'll gladly help you share the burden. He's corrupt, deceitful and more than a little brutal. However, subjugating Afghanistan to the rule of another foreign power (or their puppet) is not the answer in and of itself, leaving entirely aside the fact that both Russia and the USA will act to destabilize any Iran/Afghanistan amalgamation.

There is no "correct" solution, but I believe that the best plausible solution would be to cut the President's powers and transfer some of the executive's powers (which are, frankly, overbroad) vested in the legislature. That way, all the ethnic groups of Afghanistan have at least some say, rather than a winner-take-all Presidency ruling by fiat.

A return of a Constitutional monarch may also be a good idea, with the monarch serving as a figure of national unity.

[Ashmoria]

Yey

We shouldn't have been in that place after 2004 anyway. Oh yeah, we could have killed Bin Laden during the battle of Tora Bora, but stupid NATO Stopped us from placing explosives around the mountain range, allowing Bin Laden to escape to Pakistan.

oh yeah it was NATO.

it wasn't possibly president bush not wanting the war to end so fast that he couldn't ramp up the war he really wanted in Iraq.