LGBT Rights & Issues Thread

[Ashlak]

And how would you know that you would feel fine? You do know that cis people don't necessarily go through out life constantly feeling gender euphoria. Many cis people have a feeling of not being too attached to their gender identity, because everything clicks for them. It's normal.

Because I have tried to think of myself in the body of a male, and had no issue with the image, just like I had no issue with the image of myself in a female body. I did not think me being in a male body any stranger than me being in a female body.

Yes, but that's purely hypothetical. I could imagine myself in the body of an animal and not feel strange at all.

Look, while there are debates over what it exactly means or entails, there are observable differences in the brains of males and females. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differ ... ous_system

And it is also a fact that biological sex does not necessarily equal gender. Transgender people happen when the brain is sexed differently from the body. Now, I'm not sure what gender you were designated at birth, so I'm just going to assume female. You said that you do not feel dysphoria, this means that your brain is sexed correctly. If I were to take your brain (which I am assuming is sexed female) and put in a male body, you would begin to feel dysphoria.

This is also why I am skeptical of non binary identities. If you were to be agender, your brain would have to have no sexual differentiation. If someone were bi-gender, they would either have to have two brains, or one half of their brain be male while the other half female. Neither of these things have ever been observed.

And why does not fitting in gender roles/norms suddenly mean that you're now neither male or female?

Because most of the time, I don't feel male or female, and I don't feel comfortable as male of female. Also, when I'm male, I feel gender euphoria, when I'm female, I feel social and acute body dysphoria, when I'm androgyne, I feel social and mild body dysphoria, and when I'm agender, I feel neither euphoria nor dysphoria. So really, it's not "not fitting in gender roles/norms" -- it's not fitting in the binary genders themselves.

So basically you only feel comfortable when you feel male, then?

You do know that feelings of dysphoria can fluctuate, right? I have times where I feel less dysphoric than others as well. I have times where I don't even think about gender. Just because you aren't constantly on the verge of killing yourself because of acute dysphoria, doesn't mean that you aren't binary.

[Neutraligon]

Because I have tried to think of myself in the body of a male, and had no issue with the image, just like I had no issue with the image of myself in a female body. I did not think me being in a male body any stranger than me being in a female body.

Yes, but that's purely hypothetical. I could imagine myself in the body of an animal and not feel strange at all.

Look, while there are debates over what it exactly means or entails, there are observable differences in the brains of males and females. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differ ... ous_system

And it is also a fact that biological sex does not necessarily equal gender. Transgender people happen when the brain is sexed differently from the body. Now, I'm not sure what gender you were designated at birth, so I'm just going to assume female. You said that you do not feel dysphoria, this means that your brain is sexed correctly. If I were to take your brain (which I am assuming is sexed female) and put in a male body, you would begin to feel dysphoria.

This is also why I am skeptical of non binary identities. If you were to be agender, your brain would have to have no sexual differentiation. If someone were bi-gender, they would either have to have two brains, or one half of their brain be male while the other half female. Neither of these things have ever been observed.

Because most of the time, I don't feel male or female, and I don't feel comfortable as male of female. Also, when I'm male, I feel gender euphoria, when I'm female, I feel social and acute body dysphoria, when I'm androgyne, I feel social and mild body dysphoria, and when I'm agender, I feel neither euphoria nor dysphoria. So really, it's not "not fitting in gender roles/norms" -- it's not fitting in the binary genders themselves.

So basically you only feel comfortable when you feel male, then?

You do know that feelings of dysphoria can fluctuate, right? I have times where I feel less dysphoric than others as well. I have times where I don't even think about gender. Just because you aren't constantly on the verge of killing yourself because of acute dysphoria, doesn't mean that you aren't binary.

Yes it is hypothetical, but there is no problem with that. We humans can place ourselves in others shoes. We can change our own self image, we can imagine. And no I would not feel dysphoria. You can imagine yourself in the body of an animal and not feel dysphoria, funny because I have also tried that and I would feel dysphoria if stuck in the body of a dog (I used to imagine myself as an animorph and it creeped me out).

[Edgy Opinions]

I will respectfully disagree with that assessment, though I do agree with your overall sentiment.

Sexual and romantic orientations are significantly more complex then expressed preferences along a Kinsey Scale, and stating that everyone is bisexual does not give full respect to the lived experiences of people who have never experienced attraction to the opposite sex (or sexual attraction at all).

I also dislike this tone, people can't really share what it is to identify with biness under this society if they don't recognize themselves as such. There's a system of oppression against bisexuals, and to neglect that we're unrecognized, often because we're just seen as a subset of 'actual sexualities', contributes to our erasure.

In my opinion, saying 'all people are bisexual' makes as much fuck all sense as saying 'all people are non-binary' or 'all people are intersex'. All of these refer to social constructs that are really poorly-defined and can't ever be absolute, that is entirely true, but people who belong to these certain groups who don't fit still have a socially-enabled sense of not belonging in society that affects a major part of who they are to the extent that we can't deny how radically different is our different material relationship with our sexuality, gender or body, and the ways in which this is used to attack us or otherwise harm us.

So, as a bi person, I really have no love for these attempts to generalize our experience in a way that doesn't make people actually relate to us, instead getting them to think we're a deconstructionist fad for curious young people.

Being flexible to some degree out of experimentation and lust is not at all feeling like gender is, in some (even if limited) way, irrelevant aspect for whom you'll love or want to make love with. Most people have a right to not desire to experiment their "flexibility", and we are also not just that. Bisexuality isn't done through just a sexual practice, bisexuality is the way you perceive yourself and others as well.

That's unfortunate, because you're a legitimately respectable person. Many times gay or bisexual individuals are pressured into ideologies or religions they may otherwise disagree with, simply because it's more "LGBT-friendly". You haven't said things you didn't understand, you've taken your own path. You've become your own unique individual, not just another part of a movement, and you are deserving of respect.

This is a weird society we have in which we compliment people for being reactionary and backwards as unique and brave but not those who fight to have their own voices heard and to have their group finally respected.

Not one myself, but by that description, isn't bi- (and everything else pertaining to humans I guess) just a subset of pan-?

They describe the same spectrum of sexuality with different views on how that influences the way they see other people and themselves.

I wouldn't call them being a subset of each other, rather that they're two different social constructs to explain the same thing.

"Skoliosexual". I don't know anyone who identifies that way, though.

I wonder if it's really that rare or if it's just because people don't know the word for it.

Skoliosexual is actually attraction to people of non-binary genders, or for the non-binary gender spectrum. The attraction for androgyny is androgynophilia.

First, people in the know tend to avoid these labels in part because of the perceived fetishism, that often might come off as offensive to trans and intersex people, also because few people are truly purely or majority skoliosexual. Second, because people not in the know, even very often fellow trans people, understand non-binary people very little, when they have heard about us.

It's funny I've seen a FtM who has specifically not undergone complete SRS and I've never found anyone I'm more attracted too, but I've never understood why people get so into vocabulary either, I've known some people who call themselves lesbians/gay despite being attracted to some people of female/male sex respectively. To be honest sometimes I think "Bi" as am identity is a relic of the binary society we ll grew up in is it possible that some one is only attracted to two sexes/gender identities? Yes. But I think it's likely that most bisexual people are attracted to people outside binary but the mainstream binary environment forces to refer to ourselves as Bi for either acceptance or ease of use.

As a proud bi, tbh I think gay and hetero are far more binarist than our identity.

Male, female, non-binary and non-Western is binarist. The non defines Otherness. Male, female and intersex is binarist. The inter defines Otherness. Cis and trans is binarist. The trans defines Otherness, and cis defines success in the ideology of birth gender designation, that is in itself the start of all exercises of gender binarism, cissexism and dyadism.

That doesn't mean they're invalid ways to communicate a message.

[Nature-Spirits]

Because I have tried to think of myself in the body of a male, and had no issue with the image, just like I had no issue with the image of myself in a female body. I did not think me being in a male body any stranger than me being in a female body.

Yes, but that's purely hypothetical. I could imagine myself in the body of an animal and not feel strange at all.

Look, while there are debates over what it exactly means or entails, there are observable differences in the brains of males and females. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differ ... ous_system

And it is also a fact that biological sex does not necessarily equal gender. Transgender people happen when the brain is sexed differently from the body. Now, I'm not sure what gender you were designated at birth, so I'm just going to assume female. You said that you do not feel dysphoria, this means that your brain is sexed correctly. If I were to take your brain (which I am assuming is sexed female) and put in a male body, you would begin to feel dysphoria.

This is also why I am skeptical of non binary identities. If you were to be agender, your brain would have to have no sexual differentiation. If someone were bi-gender, they would either have to have two brains, or one half of their brain be male while the other half female. Neither of these things have ever been observed.

Well then, obviously science is still lagging behind, because non-binary gender exists.

Because most of the time, I don't feel male or female, and I don't feel comfortable as male of female. Also, when I'm male, I feel gender euphoria, when I'm female, I feel social and acute body dysphoria, when I'm androgyne, I feel social and mild body dysphoria, and when I'm agender, I feel neither euphoria nor dysphoria. So really, it's not "not fitting in gender roles/norms" -- it's not fitting in the binary genders themselves.

So basically you only feel comfortable when you feel male, then?

You do know that feelings of dysphoria can fluctuate, right? I have times where I feel less dysphoric than others as well. I have times where I don't even think about gender. Just because you aren't constantly on the verge of killing yourself because of acute dysphoria, doesn't mean that you aren't binary.

Of course I know that feelings of dysphoria fluctuate. For instance, if I were to be female for a week (which is generally the longest time I ever spend as any one gender, give or take a few days), my dysphoria would fluctuate in intensity, but I wouldn't be any less female.

I should also say that when my gender's changing, I can actually feel it shift. It's not the same as feeling my dysphoria fluctuating in intensity; I can actually feel my gender changing from one to another. It's extremely difficult to explain, but I know that I don't have a single, static gender.

[Edgy Opinions]

You said that you do not feel dysphoria, this means that your brain is sexed correctly. If I were to take your brain (which I am assuming is sexed female) and put in a male body, you would begin to feel dysphoria.

This is also why I am skeptical of non binary identities. If you were to be agender, your brain would have to have no sexual differentiation. If someone were bi-gender, they would either have to have two brains, or one half of their brain be male while the other half female. Neither of these things have ever been observed.

How are you so sure gender identity is ABSOLUTELY tagged to sex-differentiated neurological wiring?

Babies come to the world without knowing what the fuck are women and men as concepts. These are psychologically learned.

Also, most people don't lean on the extremes for neurological wiring, particularly the ones who would later identify as trans, since it's a way of the womb to go batshit and fight an earlier determination it was following, that is, to form a testicular or ovarian body, first gonad-wise, then internal and external genitalia-wise, and later endocrine system-wise. The last part gets a tad blurred. But that doesn't mean the womb can fight it to the full extent.

We aren't even sure if all cis people are divided into sirbrains and ladybrains. Much less so how does this affect non-binary and intersex people.

[Edgy Opinions]

So basically you only feel comfortable when you feel male, then?

You do know that feelings of dysphoria can fluctuate, right? I have times where I feel less dysphoric than others as well. I have times where I don't even think about gender. Just because you aren't constantly on the verge of killing yourself because of acute dysphoria, doesn't mean that you aren't binary.

My bodily dysphoria faded away when fear and conflict were gone.

Social dysphoria now appears mostly in instances of distress, as often common in the lives of trans people who grew in societies not made for them.

I'm neutroisflux panflux imprigender, by the way, meaning I am, aside native to the "neutrois" gender, 1. genderfluid of neutrois, demi-neutrois, barely neutrois and [rarely] non-neutrois with an ease 2. genderfluid of the whole pangender spectrum, with varying intensity of each dot in the spectrum (binary genders, absence of a gender, known or well-understood non-binary genders, unknown or poorly-understood non-binary genders, genders formed through a mix of these, and multiple genders at a single time), one given experience a time (only truly non-panflux pangender when I relate to pangender people) 3. my sense of gender identity is easily influenced by what surrounds me; in my particular case, socialization and empathy are the strongest effects (socialization also affects me in the sense that my permanent identity is tagged to my continuous sense of historical self, and that the gender I was socialized with - male - is the easiest non-neutrois single, "pure" gender for me to identify with)

Nevertheless, I seldom shift "automatically" to agender, and that brings me dysphoria (unlike feeling agender when I happen to relate in an impressionistic and empathetic way with agender friends or agender people with emotional accounts to share), further dysphoria than what shifting to androgyne, demigirl and similar identities (I couldn't fully shit to female) caused when I had an identity conflict (I identified as a demiboy for very complex reasons).

My dysphoria fluctuates because in my case it's not a disease in the sense of a congenital disease. It is psychological distress. It has very obscure, subconscious roots, but it is not separated from my rationality to a degree that it isn't palpable.

[Nature-Spirits]

In my opinion, saying 'all people are bisexual' makes as much fuck all sense as saying 'all people are non-binary' or 'all people are intersex'.

My mom actually used this argument against me last night when we were fighting (again). She said, "Gender is a spectrum, and we're all somewhere along it! We're all genderfluid! Transgenders just want to be special!"

So basically, she said I was actually cis and accused me of being a special snowflake, while also accusing all trans people of being special snowflakes. I'm not sure where she gets that logic, but at least she recognises that the gender binary is artificial, I guess. She did call me a "thing" and "it" in the same fight, though, so I did get quite upset.

[Ashlak]

Yes, but that's purely hypothetical. I could imagine myself in the body of an animal and not feel strange at all.

Look, while there are debates over what it exactly means or entails, there are observable differences in the brains of males and females. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differ ... ous_system

And it is also a fact that biological sex does not necessarily equal gender. Transgender people happen when the brain is sexed differently from the body. Now, I'm not sure what gender you were designated at birth, so I'm just going to assume female. You said that you do not feel dysphoria, this means that your brain is sexed correctly. If I were to take your brain (which I am assuming is sexed female) and put in a male body, you would begin to feel dysphoria.

This is also why I am skeptical of non binary identities. If you were to be agender, your brain would have to have no sexual differentiation. If someone were bi-gender, they would either have to have two brains, or one half of their brain be male while the other half female. Neither of these things have ever been observed.



So basically you only feel comfortable when you feel male, then?

You do know that feelings of dysphoria can fluctuate, right? I have times where I feel less dysphoric than others as well. I have times where I don't even think about gender. Just because you aren't constantly on the verge of killing yourself because of acute dysphoria, doesn't mean that you aren't binary.

Yes it is hypothetical, but there is no problem with that. We humans can place ourselves in others shoes. We can change our own self image, we can imagine. And no I would not feel dysphoria. You can imagine yourself in the body of an animal and not feel dysphoria, funny because I have also tried that and I would feel dysphoria if stuck in the body of a dog (I used to imagine myself as an animorph and it creeped me out).

I do agree that there's nothing wrong with imagining yourself as someone of the opposite sex, or as a different species, or as a mythical creature, or whatever. But that still doesn't equal being trans. I'm not trans because I was perfectly okay as a boy and thought "I could handle being a girl", I'm trans because being a boy feels utterly wrong, and being considered a girl feels awesome.

A heterosexual person can wonder what would be like to have gay sex, without feeling disgusted or wanting it. Saying that you can trans without dysphoria is like saying that you can be gay without any homosexual or homoromantic attractions.

Yes, but that's purely hypothetical. I could imagine myself in the body of an animal and not feel strange at all.

Look, while there are debates over what it exactly means or entails, there are observable differences in the brains of males and females. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differ ... ous_system

And it is also a fact that biological sex does not necessarily equal gender. Transgender people happen when the brain is sexed differently from the body. Now, I'm not sure what gender you were designated at birth, so I'm just going to assume female. You said that you do not feel dysphoria, this means that your brain is sexed correctly. If I were to take your brain (which I am assuming is sexed female) and put in a male body, you would begin to feel dysphoria.

This is also why I am skeptical of non binary identities. If you were to be agender, your brain would have to have no sexual differentiation. If someone were bi-gender, they would either have to have two brains, or one half of their brain be male while the other half female. Neither of these things have ever been observed.

Well then, obviously science is still lagging behind, because non-binary gender exists.

So basically you only feel comfortable when you feel male, then?

You do know that feelings of dysphoria can fluctuate, right? I have times where I feel less dysphoric than others as well. I have times where I don't even think about gender. Just because you aren't constantly on the verge of killing yourself because of acute dysphoria, doesn't mean that you aren't binary.

Of course I know that feelings of dysphoria fluctuate. For instance, if I were to be female for a week (which is generally the longest time I ever spend as any one gender, give or take a few days), my dysphoria would fluctuate in intensity, but I wouldn't be any less female.

I should also say that when my gender's changing, I can actually feel it shift. It's not the same as feeling my dysphoria fluctuating in intensity; I can actually feel my gender changing from one to another. It's extremely difficult to explain, but I know that I don't have a single, static gender.

I can say that for literally anything unprovable. "Of course midichlorians exist, science just hasn't caught up yet!"

And how do you know you aren't misinterpreting your feelings? I'm not saying that you should completely disregard them, but you need to keep in mind that just because you feel something doesn't make it true or credible.

I thought I felt similar, actually.

You said that you do not feel dysphoria, this means that your brain is sexed correctly. If I were to take your brain (which I am assuming is sexed female) and put in a male body, you would begin to feel dysphoria.

This is also why I am skeptical of non binary identities. If you were to be agender, your brain would have to have no sexual differentiation. If someone were bi-gender, they would either have to have two brains, or one half of their brain be male while the other half female. Neither of these things have ever been observed.

How are you so sure gender identity is ABSOLUTELY tagged to sex-differentiated neurological wiring?

Babies come to the world without knowing what the fuck are women and men as concepts. These are psychologically learned.

Also, most people don't lean on the extremes for neurological wiring, particularly the ones who would later identify as trans, since it's a way of the womb to go batshit and fight an earlier determination it was following, that is, to form a testicular or ovarian body, first gonad-wise, then internal and external genitalia-wise, and later endocrine system-wise. The last part gets a tad blurred. But that doesn't mean the womb can fight it to the full extent.

We aren't even sure if all cis people are divided into sirbrains and ladybrains. Much less so how does this affect non-binary and intersex people.

I'm not. Science deals in probability, not absolutes. Only Sith deal in that.

I do agree that gender roles and expression are socially learned. However, gender identity is determined by the brain. Identity, role, and expression all make up the concept of gender. Which makes gender partly biological and partly a social construct.

You are right about binary trans people not going to either extreme as far as the brain goes. http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2 ... PvWGPnF-Hg

"Their brains are not completely masculinised and not completely feminised, but they still feel female,"

Interesting how an "inbetween brain" produces binary trans people rather than say, androgynes or neutrois.

[Nature-Spirits]

Yes it is hypothetical, but there is no problem with that. We humans can place ourselves in others shoes. We can change our own self image, we can imagine. And no I would not feel dysphoria. You can imagine yourself in the body of an animal and not feel dysphoria, funny because I have also tried that and I would feel dysphoria if stuck in the body of a dog (I used to imagine myself as an animorph and it creeped me out).

I do agree that there's nothing wrong with imagining yourself as someone of the opposite sex, or as a different species, or as a mythical creature, or whatever. But that still doesn't equal being trans. I'm not trans because I was perfectly okay as a boy and thought "I could handle being a girl", I'm trans because being a boy feels utterly wrong, and being considered a girl feels awesome.

A heterosexual person can wonder what would be like to have gay sex, without feeling disgusted or wanting it. Saying that you can trans without dysphoria is like saying that you can be gay without any homosexual or homoromantic attractions.

The thing about being agender -- from what I've noticed about my own agender experiences, that is -- is that during those times, I don't care about my gender at all. When I'm agender, I can dress up in my boy clothes or my girl clothes and feel completely comfortable. I just don't feel any pull towards any gender.

Well then, obviously science is still lagging behind, because non-binary gender exists.


Of course I know that feelings of dysphoria fluctuate. For instance, if I were to be female for a week (which is generally the longest time I ever spend as any one gender, give or take a few days), my dysphoria would fluctuate in intensity, but I wouldn't be any less female.

I should also say that when my gender's changing, I can actually feel it shift. It's not the same as feeling my dysphoria fluctuating in intensity; I can actually feel my gender changing from one to another. It's extremely difficult to explain, but I know that I don't have a single, static gender.

I can say that for literally anything unprovable. "Of course midichlorians exist, science just hasn't caught up yet!"

And how do you know you aren't misinterpreting your feelings? I'm not saying that you should completely disregard them, but you need to keep in mind that just because you feel something doesn't make it true or credible.

I thought I felt similar, actually.

I know I'm genderfluid because I know I've experienced multiple genders. I'm not male all of the time, and I'm not female all of the time -- in fact, I would say that most of the time, I'm androgyne, though I often lean in one direction or another. I know this because I can feel almost tangible differences between the genders, though I may not be able to explain them to others. And when I'm a guy, I actually feel gender euphoria -- that is, I like my body, and I like being seen as male. When I'm a girl or androgyne, though, I feel dysphoria -- that is, I don't like my body, and I don't like being seen as male. And when I'm agender, I just don't give a shit either way.

[United Socialist Republic of Restonia]

I find this all very fascinating. Personally, I think it is all very subjective and personal. I ID as a homosexual male. I am every bit a guy/ male / man, and I am almost solely attracted to other men / overtly male characteristics in both appearance, psyche, sexually, physically. The lone exception is that I do like breasts of women, but that isnt a sexual thing for me and has almost nothing to do with sexual attraction. I think most people, at least that I have met, like boobs. LOL.

I hope I'm not being too personal here, but while I do almost exclusively prefer sex with men, I have been with females in my past. A few times as a teen, and then a couple times as an adult but those times there was also a male involved as well. What I find even more interesting is that I have found that, while IDing myself as a homosexual male, I have a few times been attracted to FTM that ostensibly appear as men, but still maintain their original female sex organs. However they, in every other way looked like a man in terms of physique, face, facial hair, pecs, abs, butt, etc, and, they also acted and sounded like guys. What I find even more interesting for me, is that, said attraction was enough to take it to a sexual level which I did a couple times with one FTM. The only thing female about this person was between their legs. I was not only able to just perform (which I could with a woman anyway though I would not enjoy it they way that I do with men), but it just about equaled the level of attraction / pleasure that I have when being with normal males. So to me that says that at least for myself sexual attraction has almost as much to do with appearance of the body, how one presents themselves, and general looks, as it does with whats down south. Ostensibly, this person was a man, with that exception. No one would ever know otherwise unless they saw the person naked. They sure did make for an extremely attractive male though.

After that experience it surprised me a bit and made me think a lot about how I ID myself in terms of sexual orientation. I suppose that I am mostly homosexual in many respects, however that might be able to technically be stretched to bi/ pan under certain circumstances. I think this shows that it is highly subjective, personal, and unique to each individual. I'm pretty sure that I am not the only one that has experienced this either. Oddly enough, the FTM previously ID themselves as a straight woman. When this occurred they ID themselves as bi/ pan but also said to me that they largely were more attracted to gay men, and that was what they wanted to be with and possibly fully become. Interesting huh?

I think a lot of people kind of blur the lines between gay, straight, and bi.

I do as well, and quite frankly, i firmly believe that alot more people are blurred about their own personal sexuality than will ever admit / we will ever know. I have met and been with quite a few men who ID as heterosexual, but, enjoy at least some certain aspects of same sex sexual relations. I don't think its appropriate to go into detail, but I think you can get my drift here, at least generally. For what ever reason, such people, espeically men are much more guarded about that, espeically when it comes to anything that might cause them to be even remotely seen as "gay".

[United Socialist Republic of Restonia]

I find this all very fascinating. Personally, I think it is all very subjective and personal. I ID as a homosexual male. I am every bit a guy/ male / man, and I am almost solely attracted to other men / overtly male characteristics in both appearance, psyche, sexually, physically. The lone exception is that I do like breasts of women, but that isnt a sexual thing for me and has almost nothing to do with sexual attraction. I think most people, at least that I have met, like boobs. LOL.

I hope I'm not being too personal here, but while I do almost exclusively prefer sex with men, I have been with females in my past. A few times as a teen, and then a couple times as an adult but those times there was also a male involved as well. What I find even more interesting is that I have found that, while IDing myself as a homosexual male, I have a few times been attracted to FTM that ostensibly appear as men, but still maintain their original female sex organs. However they, in every other way looked like a man in terms of physique, face, facial hair, pecs, abs, butt, etc, and, they also acted and sounded like guys. What I find even more interesting for me, is that, said attraction was enough to take it to a sexual level which I did a couple times with one FTM. The only thing female about this person was between their legs. I was not only able to just perform (which I could with a woman anyway though I would not enjoy it they way that I do with men), but it just about equaled the level of attraction / pleasure that I have when being with normal males. So to me that says that at least for myself sexual attraction has almost as much to do with appearance of the body, how one presents themselves, and general looks, as it does with whats down south. Ostensibly, this person was a man, with that exception. No one would ever know otherwise unless they saw the person naked. They sure did make for an extremely attractive male though.

After that experience it surprised me a bit and made me think a lot about how I ID myself in terms of sexual orientation. I suppose that I am mostly homosexual in many respects, however that might be able to technically be stretched to bi/ pan under certain circumstances. I think this shows that it is highly subjective, personal, and unique to each individual. I'm pretty sure that I am not the only one that has experienced this either. Oddly enough, the FTM previously ID themselves as a straight woman. When this occurred they ID themselves as bi/ pan but also said to me that they largely were more attracted to gay men, and that was what they wanted to be with and possibly fully become. Interesting huh?

To be honest, while I appreciate you sharing this story, I don't think it's all that strange that you would be attracted to him. I am exclusively attracted to men, and I find a lot of trans guys very attractive.

I think I have to agree with you there. I also think, as in the comment to another post I just posted above this one, that the lines are much more blurred than anyone really knows and than most will admit to, and that goes for all orientations.

[Amerieka]

It is not strange in this forum, of course.

[Nature-Spirits]

It is not strange in this forum, of course.

1) What are you talking about?
2) If you have nothing constructive to add to the discussion, why do you even bother posting here?

[United Socialist Republic of Restonia]

It is not strange in this forum, of course.

Didn't you say you were leaving this forum / thread and not coming back to it? So why are you still posting here?

[Tekania]

Indeed, imagining yourself being somewhere and actually being somewhere are not the same thing. On subs for example, it's volinteer duty, people want to have to go there to be there, psychological tests are done, people feel like it is someplace that want to be and can imagine themselves there and no matter what checks are done still, invariably someone is going to slip through, actually get out there and find they suffer from some form of claustrophobia which is heightened by the long term deployment in that environment. Merely because you imagine something does not mean you can handle being there.

[United Socialist Republic of Restonia]

Indeed, imagining yourself being somewhere and actually being somewhere are not the same thing. On subs for example, it's volinteer duty, people want to have to go there to be there, psychological tests are done, people feel like it is someplace that want to be and can imagine themselves there and no matter what checks are done still, invariably someone is going to slip through, actually get out there and find they suffer from some form of claustrophobia which is heightened by the long term deployment in that environment. Merely because you imagine something does not mean you can handle being there.

I think you may have misposted this? Wrong thread?

[MERIZoC]

It is not strange in this forum, of course.

Didn't you say you were leaving this forum / thread and not coming back to it? So why are you still posting here?

Because that's what people do.

[Oneracon]

Didn't you say you were leaving this forum / thread and not coming back to it? So why are you still posting here?

Because that's what people do.

Indeed, how can they keep claiming to be oppressed by the evil gays if they don't keep coming back?

[Nature-Spirits]

Indeed, imagining yourself being somewhere and actually being somewhere are not the same thing. On subs for example, it's volinteer duty, people want to have to go there to be there, psychological tests are done, people feel like it is someplace that want to be and can imagine themselves there and no matter what checks are done still, invariably someone is going to slip through, actually get out there and find they suffer from some form of claustrophobia which is heightened by the long term deployment in that environment. Merely because you imagine something does not mean you can handle being there.

Are you referring to being agender? Because I can assure you, it's a legitimate experience.

[Benuty]

Because that's what people do.

Indeed, how can they keep claiming to be oppressed by the evil gays if they don't keep coming back?

Got to feed the persecution complex somehow.

[Amerieka]

occasionally back because you people couldn't leave me and my topic alone and got it locked. always blaming me. i did leave. i did set up my own space, but you guys had to hijack it. it's not always my fault just because you disagree with me.

[Furry Alairia and Algeria]

occasionally back because you people couldn't leave me and my topic alone and got it locked. always blaming me. i did leave. i did set up my own space, but you guys had to hijack it. it's not always my fault just because you disagree with me.

This megathread is enough. We don't need another special snowflake thread.

[Amerieka]

occasionally back because you people couldn't leave me and my topic alone and got it locked. always blaming me. i did leave. i did set up my own space, but you guys had to hijack it. it's not always my fault just because you disagree with me.

This megathread is enough. We don't need another special snowflake thread.

u completely missed the point that mine was hijacked

[Furry Alairia and Algeria]

This megathread is enough. We don't need another special snowflake thread.

u completely missed the point that mine was hijacked

What was your thread supposed to be about?

[Benuty]

u completely missed the point that mine was hijacked

What was your thread supposed to be about?

Supposedly the antithesis of the pro-LBGT (and more) rights movement. A very poor antithesis at that.