Lyttenburg wrote:So, now access to the Internet = civilisation.
Cite me examples of contemporarily successful civilizations that are not globalized.
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by Degenerate Heart of HetRio » Fri Jun 27, 2014 6:14 am
Lyttenburg wrote:So, now access to the Internet = civilisation.
by Lyttenburg » Fri Jun 27, 2014 6:57 am
Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:
I believe in enlightenment for anybody in the 21st century with a touch of access to civilization.
by Degenerate Heart of HetRio » Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:23 am
Lyttenburg wrote:-snip-
by Degenerate Heart of HetRio » Fri Jun 27, 2014 4:36 pm
by Degenerate Heart of HetRio » Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:30 am
Lalaki wrote:The US is ever closer to having all 50 states recognize same-sex marriage.
We must begin preparations for the next developed country to work on. Italy, perhaps.
by Wintersdown » Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:25 pm
Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:I think Asia needs more help, tbh. No non-Western country ever managed to do it.
Even the Vietnamese unregistered cohabitation was cancelled.
by Revanchism » Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:29 pm
Wintersdown wrote:Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:I think Asia needs more help, tbh. No non-Western country ever managed to do it.
Even the Vietnamese unregistered cohabitation was cancelled.
I'm with HetRio on this one, western established civilization is, for the most part, either tolerant or legally acknowledging of Homosexuals. (With the exception of *cough* Russia *cough*)
Not saying we should full on challenge China or something but definitely trying to turn opinions in that direction would be helpful.
Norstal wrote:You ever watched a bad movie that is so bad, that it's enlightening? Like, you start asking yourself, "why did I watched this movie. What is the meaning of life after I watched this movie."
Yumyumsuppertime wrote:Excuse me, I believe that the proper term is Satanic-American.
Russian Socialist Soviet States wrote:Does Queen Elsa have a partnership with the Rothschild family in the film?
by Wintersdown » Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:14 pm
by Mons Garle » Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:09 am
Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:Lalaki wrote:The US is ever closer to having all 50 states recognize same-sex marriage.
We must begin preparations for the next developed country to work on. Italy, perhaps.
I think Asia needs more help, tbh. No non-Western country ever managed to do it.
Even the Vietnamese unregistered cohabitation was cancelled.
by Distruzio » Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:35 am
Wintersdown wrote:Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:I think Asia needs more help, tbh. No non-Western country ever managed to do it.
Even the Vietnamese unregistered cohabitation was cancelled.
I'm with HetRio on this one, western established civilization is, for the most part, either tolerant or legally acknowledging of Homosexuals. (With the exception of *cough* Russia *cough*)
Not saying we should full on challenge China or something but definitely trying to turn opinions in that direction would be helpful.
by Tierra Prime » Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:01 am
Distruzio wrote:Wintersdown wrote:
I'm with HetRio on this one, western established civilization is, for the most part, either tolerant or legally acknowledging of Homosexuals. (With the exception of *cough* Russia *cough*)
Not saying we should full on challenge China or something but definitely trying to turn opinions in that direction would be helpful.
Russia is part of "western civilization"? It's a asian nation. Always has been.
by Degenerate Heart of HetRio » Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:10 am
Mons Garle wrote:South America is also seeing progress in the right direction
by Lyttenburg » Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:03 pm
Distruzio wrote:Wintersdown wrote:
I'm with HetRio on this one, western established civilization is, for the most part, either tolerant or legally acknowledging of Homosexuals. (With the exception of *cough* Russia *cough*)
Not saying we should full on challenge China or something but definitely trying to turn opinions in that direction would be helpful.
Russia is part of "western civilization"? It's a asian nation. Always has been.
by Degenerate Heart of HetRio » Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:09 pm
Lyttenburg wrote:Oh, so right! Just look at those despicable Asians!
Lyttenburg wrote:-snip-
by Lyttenburg » Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:23 pm
Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:By internet I obviously meant access to information, published sources with actual scientific evidence to their claims, rather than social repression and taboos.
by Degenerate Heart of HetRio » Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:27 pm
Lyttenburg wrote:Besides totally ignoring my question(s), about what are you considering the "Civilisation"
by Distruzio » Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:19 pm
by Distruzio » Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:22 pm
Lyttenburg wrote:Distruzio wrote:
Russia is part of "western civilization"? It's a asian nation. Always has been.
Oh, so right! Just look at those despicable Asians!
They totally not like the Bright Valinor - the Blessed Western Realm, where all people are beatiful, kind, freedom-loving, tolerant, freethinking progressivists that shoot rainbows through their eyes and poo marshmallows.
It's not like that their state religion (as well as other unmentionable by sensetive Westerners thing), that helped them form as a nation came from the West - nope! And their culture? The Proud Westerners either don't know a lot about it, or ignore or just desise - isn't it an ultimate sign that it's un-Western and, therefore, inferior? It's obvious for any politically conscious Westerner that all steretypes about Russia are Truth (tm), and even attempting to arguing that by learning so-called "facts" is Heresy, punishable by ostrcism (at first...)
Right, I'm off to drink vodka, play my balalayka, then mount my bear and go partitioning Poland.
Again.
by Distruzio » Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:23 pm
by Degenerate Heart of HetRio » Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:30 pm
by Roski » Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:13 pm
Distruzio wrote:Tierra Prime wrote:Tell me, why do you consider Russia to be an Asian nation? Emperor Peter westernised it quite a bit if I remember correctly.
Which suggests.... what? That is was not a western nation. And what specific policies can we identify from Peter's westernization aspirations, hmmm? What did he do? Well, he coerced the nobility into adopting western fashions; adopted French as the court language; encouraged "planned cities" (such as St. Petersburg) in the veins of Paris; he industrialized the Russian ship building industry; and, finally, he organized the Russian military in the same manner european militaries were organized. If this counts as "westernization" explicitly, then should we not also assume that China and South Korea are westernized nations because they adopted economic protectionism and allow western corporations to operate within their territories?
Russia can be considered more westernized now than before, but its hardly a western nation. It's an Asian nation. Absolutely.
by Lyttenburg » Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:23 pm
Distruzio wrote:Tierra Prime wrote:Tell me, why do you consider Russia to be an Asian nation? Emperor Peter westernised it quite a bit if I remember correctly.
Which suggests.... what? That is was not a western nation. And what specific policies can we identify from Peter's westernization aspirations, hmmm? What did he do? Well, he coerced the nobility into adopting western fashions; adopted French as the court language; encouraged "planned cities" (such as St. Petersburg) in the veins of Paris; he industrialized the Russian ship building industry; and, finally, he organized the Russian military in the same manner European militaries were organized. If this counts as "westernization" explicitly, then should we not also assume that China and South Korea are westernized nations because they adopted economic protectionism and allow western corporations to operate within their territories?
Russia can be considered more westernized now than before, but its hardly a western nation. It's an Asian nation. Absolutely.
Distruzio wrote:
.... okay?
I've no idea what you're on about. The Russian faith is Orthodox Christianity - an eastern religion. Christianity originated in the east, not the west.
Also... I think you're presuming a value judgement on Russia exists in my statement - there isn't one.
Russia is part of "western civilization"? It's a asian nation. Always has been.
by Farnhamia » Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:52 pm
Lyttenburg wrote:Distruzio wrote:
Which suggests.... what? That is was not a western nation. And what specific policies can we identify from Peter's westernization aspirations, hmmm? What did he do? Well, he coerced the nobility into adopting western fashions; adopted French as the court language; encouraged "planned cities" (such as St. Petersburg) in the veins of Paris; he industrialized the Russian ship building industry; and, finally, he organized the Russian military in the same manner European militaries were organized. If this counts as "westernization" explicitly, then should we not also assume that China and South Korea are westernized nations because they adopted economic protectionism and allow western corporations to operate within their territories?
Russia can be considered more westernized now than before, but its hardly a western nation. It's an Asian nation. Absolutely.
Yes! Stay strong in your ignorance citizen, or isn't it said that "Blessed be the mind too small to doubt"? Peter I the Great - bah! What have he raely done to Russia? Except:
- Government Reforms. Creation of Ministries (Collegiums), Senate and Magistrate.
- Administrative Reforms. Creation of governorates (gubernias) modeled after Sweden system of province administration.
- Judicial Reform. A total re-haul of Russia's Judicial System.
- Table of Ranks. Created a new system of civilian and military Ranks that totally reshaped not only the state bureaucracy, but the society as well.
- Military Reform. Creation of regular army and fleet based on the Western examples. Granted, Peter's system actually lacked one of the features, that was quite prominent in the militaries of Europe of that period (and remained it's feature for a long time) - it wasn't allowed to "buy" an officers commission, like say in Britain. More proof how Asiatic he was... I guess?
- Church reform. Abolition of Patriarchy, institution of "Church Ministry" - the Holy Synod. De facto, the Russian Czar became (through his Ober-Procuror of Synod) a head of Russian Orthodox Church in all but name. An action that is totally alien for the Western civilization.
- Fianancial reform. Reform of the national monetary system and taxation modeled by (wait-wait for it!) on the Western examples.
- Industrial Reforms. A nation wide program of establishing manufactories and mines. In fact, it's safe to say that Peter I created industrial base for the Russia nearly from the scratch.
- Reforms of the Nobility. Institution of majorat in case of inheritance, abolishing of any judicial, social and privilege divide between the aristocracy (boyars and deti boyrskie) and the gentry (dvoryane). PLus Table of Ranks allowed to earn personal and even hereditary nobility thrugh the government service. What - this is also Asiatic?
- Third Estate Reforms. Establishment of Western like "Guilds" and "Crafts" (Cjehi) for merchants and craftsmen respectfully. Voivodes as the heads of the cities were replaced by the elected city Magistrates.
- Culltural Reforms. Besides the adoption of the western fashion in dress and other spheres of the noble life (and no, Peter The Great didn't make the French the Russian "court language" - it happened naturally over time years later), Czar Peter also introduced in Russia European calendar, established the first schools not run by the church, kickstarted the mass transation in Russian of the Western books, the foundation of the first Russian newspaper. Peter ordered the reform of the Russian language that brought it no nearly modern form, and nearly 4500 new Western words entered the Russian parlance. He helped the establishing of the Russian Academy of Sciences, which opened a few months after his death. He introduced Assemblages - a new type for a mass social event inspired (are ready for this) by the Western examples. He also made it illegal to forcibly marry people. Oh, and while he didn't order anyone else but the nobles to shave beards he imposed a tax on the rest - "the Beard Money". It was only abolished by Catherine II.
All these (and many, many other ones) reforms of Peter the Great will, of course, mean nothing to you user Distruzio. Good for you! "Thought begets Doubt. Doubt begets Heresy" - and we all know this is baaaaad.
User Distruzio, I'm curious - did you lump, say, Bulgaria, Albania and Armenia into the "Asian" category as well? What is your criteria?Distruzio wrote:
.... okay?
I've no idea what you're on about. The Russian faith is Orthodox Christianity - an eastern religion. Christianity originated in the east, not the west.
Also... I think you're presuming a value judgement on Russia exists in my statement - there isn't one.
But-but-but! You were against the mere suggestion that Russia is part of the "Western" civilization! Its right here, in your post -Russia is part of "western civilization"? It's a asian nation. Always has been.
Now you somehow implying that Russian Pravoslaviye is eastern Religion ('cause it came from the Byzantium, you know, the Roman Empires Eastern part and successor state), and that all Christianity originated in the East. So, your point is - what? That Because Christianity originated in the East (in Asia, to boot), then all nations that adopted it - are Asian? Or that Rus adopted some "wrong" form of Christianity, not the kosher Western Catholicism, but some Unutterable Pravoslaviye (despite the fact that at the moment of conversion to Christianity the Great Schizm of 1054 was still a matter of the future)? That's what makes Russia "Asian"? Of maybe it's the adoption of another product of Western thinking in fields of economics, history, sociology and philosophy - communism? Why? Because it was invented by Karl Marx, an "impure" Westerner?
Tell me Distruzio! I want to understand your logic! What is in your understanding "Asian" and what is "Western"? Did Russians look like Asians? Or, maybe, you know another "Asian" country that adopted Christianity in the past and kept it as its national religion for the better part of it's history?
by Distruzio » Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:04 pm
Farnhamia wrote:Lyttenburg wrote:
Yes! Stay strong in your ignorance citizen, or isn't it said that "Blessed be the mind too small to doubt"? Peter I the Great - bah! What have he raely done to Russia? Except:
- Government Reforms. Creation of Ministries (Collegiums), Senate and Magistrate.
- Administrative Reforms. Creation of governorates (gubernias) modeled after Sweden system of province administration.
- Judicial Reform. A total re-haul of Russia's Judicial System.
- Table of Ranks. Created a new system of civilian and military Ranks that totally reshaped not only the state bureaucracy, but the society as well.
- Military Reform. Creation of regular army and fleet based on the Western examples. Granted, Peter's system actually lacked one of the features, that was quite prominent in the militaries of Europe of that period (and remained it's feature for a long time) - it wasn't allowed to "buy" an officers commission, like say in Britain. More proof how Asiatic he was... I guess?
- Church reform. Abolition of Patriarchy, institution of "Church Ministry" - the Holy Synod. De facto, the Russian Czar became (through his Ober-Procuror of Synod) a head of Russian Orthodox Church in all but name. An action that is totally alien for the Western civilization.
- Fianancial reform. Reform of the national monetary system and taxation modeled by (wait-wait for it!) on the Western examples.
- Industrial Reforms. A nation wide program of establishing manufactories and mines. In fact, it's safe to say that Peter I created industrial base for the Russia nearly from the scratch.
- Reforms of the Nobility. Institution of majorat in case of inheritance, abolishing of any judicial, social and privilege divide between the aristocracy (boyars and deti boyrskie) and the gentry (dvoryane). PLus Table of Ranks allowed to earn personal and even hereditary nobility thrugh the government service. What - this is also Asiatic?
- Third Estate Reforms. Establishment of Western like "Guilds" and "Crafts" (Cjehi) for merchants and craftsmen respectfully. Voivodes as the heads of the cities were replaced by the elected city Magistrates.
- Culltural Reforms. Besides the adoption of the western fashion in dress and other spheres of the noble life (and no, Peter The Great didn't make the French the Russian "court language" - it happened naturally over time years later), Czar Peter also introduced in Russia European calendar, established the first schools not run by the church, kickstarted the mass transation in Russian of the Western books, the foundation of the first Russian newspaper. Peter ordered the reform of the Russian language that brought it no nearly modern form, and nearly 4500 new Western words entered the Russian parlance. He helped the establishing of the Russian Academy of Sciences, which opened a few months after his death. He introduced Assemblages - a new type for a mass social event inspired (are ready for this) by the Western examples. He also made it illegal to forcibly marry people. Oh, and while he didn't order anyone else but the nobles to shave beards he imposed a tax on the rest - "the Beard Money". It was only abolished by Catherine II.
All these (and many, many other ones) reforms of Peter the Great will, of course, mean nothing to you user Distruzio. Good for you! "Thought begets Doubt. Doubt begets Heresy" - and we all know this is baaaaad.
User Distruzio, I'm curious - did you lump, say, Bulgaria, Albania and Armenia into the "Asian" category as well? What is your criteria?
But-but-but! You were against the mere suggestion that Russia is part of the "Western" civilization! Its right here, in your post -
Now you somehow implying that Russian Pravoslaviye is eastern Religion ('cause it came from the Byzantium, you know, the Roman Empires Eastern part and successor state), and that all Christianity originated in the East. So, your point is - what? That Because Christianity originated in the East (in Asia, to boot), then all nations that adopted it - are Asian? Or that Rus adopted some "wrong" form of Christianity, not the kosher Western Catholicism, but some Unutterable Pravoslaviye (despite the fact that at the moment of conversion to Christianity the Great Schizm of 1054 was still a matter of the future)? That's what makes Russia "Asian"? Of maybe it's the adoption of another product of Western thinking in fields of economics, history, sociology and philosophy - communism? Why? Because it was invented by Karl Marx, an "impure" Westerner?
Tell me Distruzio! I want to understand your logic! What is in your understanding "Asian" and what is "Western"? Did Russians look like Asians? Or, maybe, you know another "Asian" country that adopted Christianity in the past and kept it as its national religion for the better part of it's history?
Or, you know, I have an idea, how about dropping Peter Alexeyevich and Russia in general, and talking about LGBT rights and issues? :GBT rights and issues in Russia is fine but we seem to be just a trifle off topic here.
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