LGBT Rights & Issues Thread

[MERIZoC]

Only gay propaganda is the problem,not marriage

What is this "gay propaganda" you speak of?

Ummmm…..Asking to be allowed to be married?

[Shie]

Only gay propaganda is the problem,not marriage

Both are problems, they're not the same though.

[Shie]

Only gay propaganda is the problem,not marriage

What is this "gay propaganda" you speak of?

The Hollywood movies with all of the liberal undertones and blatant disregard for the ideal male role in an organized society.

[-The Unified Earth Governments-]

That's really just human nature.

Friend, you could be the single most attractive woman on earth and after ten seconds of conversation I wouldn't want to be within a mile of you.

Yeah, good looks alone didn't bring this population to bear, sure in the beginning there was desperation but our ancestors weren't super models by any rate, the tribes had to work together and be nice because if they didn't, they die.

Looks are a bonus, not a factor. at least for a large, large portion of Human history.

[The Rhomaion]

What is this "gay propaganda" you speak of?

The Hollywood movies with all of the liberal undertones and blatant disregard for the ideal male role in an organized society.

That's not "gay propaganda"; even if we pretend that there's a massive ongoing anti-nuclear-family-and-society conspiracy going on in Hollywood, then that'd surely be "liberal anti-family propaganda" rather than "gay propaganda", given that of the evil downsides of Hollywood movies you've mentioned, not one is linked to homosexuality.

[Ermarian]

- Utah (Judge Robert Shelby, Kitchen v. Herbert),
- Oklahoma (Judge Terence Kern, Bishop v. US),
- Virginia (Judge Arenda Allen, Bostic v. Rainey),
- Kentucky (Judge John Heyburn, Bourke & Deleon v. Beshear) out-of-state marriages only; lawsuit extended to include in-state marriage (Judge John Heyburn, Love v. Beshear ( , just like Virginia v. Loving)), I'm not clear on whether that means Heyburn will still rule on that separately or whether the ruling is immediately extended pending appeal.
- and now Texas (Judge Orlando Garcia, De Leon v. Perry)...

- and now, Michigan. (Judge Bernard Friedman , DeBoer v. Snyder).

Nice one, Michigan!

- Ohio (Judge Timothy Black, Henry v. Wymyslo) must recognize out-of-state marriages. (The lawsuit had also been amended to include in-state marriages, so I guess the judge will still rule on that.)

- Today, Arkansas (Judge Chris Piazza, Wright v. Arkansas) had its constitutional ban struck down as well.

- Idaho (Judge Candy Dale, Latta v. Otter), apparently just hours ago.

[Othelos]

- Utah (Judge Robert Shelby, Kitchen v. Herbert),
- Oklahoma (Judge Terence Kern, Bishop v. US),
- Virginia (Judge Arenda Allen, Bostic v. Rainey),
- Kentucky (Judge John Heyburn, Bourke & Deleon v. Beshear) out-of-state marriages only; lawsuit extended to include in-state marriage (Judge John Heyburn, Love v. Beshear ( , just like Virginia v. Loving)), I'm not clear on whether that means Heyburn will still rule on that separately or whether the ruling is immediately extended pending appeal.
- and now Texas (Judge Orlando Garcia, De Leon v. Perry)...

- and now, Michigan. (Judge Bernard Friedman , DeBoer v. Snyder).

Nice one, Michigan!

- Ohio (Judge Timothy Black, Henry v. Wymyslo) must recognize out-of-state marriages. (The lawsuit had also been amended to include in-state marriages, so I guess the judge will still rule on that.)

- Today, Arkansas (Judge Chris Piazza, Wright v. Arkansas) had its constitutional ban struck down as well.

- Idaho (Judge Candy Dale, Latta v. Otter), apparently just hours ago.

Awesome!

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

- Idaho (Judge Candy Dale, Latta v. Otter), apparently just hours ago.

Is it bad that it surprised me more than Utah and Arkansas together? D:

[Wintersdown]

Aside from all the amazing rights to marriage going on. I'm just sort of irritated with people today. Mostly because I've been off and thinking of familial love changes after coming out. I hate the promise of 'unconditional' love. Which you should only ever promise if you 100% mean it. Which is definitely not love that means 'I love you even though you're gay.'

[Fascist Russian Empire]

Say, just a thought, why exactly is coming out such an important thing to so many people? I don't get why it's supposed to be such a big deal, and why people feel obligated to do it. Do people really need to know what gender turns you on? Maybe I'm just crazy, but I don't really think that people should need or want to come out; what turns you on and who you want to be with is your business, hetero homo or bisexual, and you really shouldn't have to tell somebody unless they ask or if you want to date them.

[MERIZoC]

I honestly don't want to drive a wedge in here, but I heard about something today, and I was curious about your response.

My local MP is a woman, and she's gonna quit next term. Since there aren't enough women in parliament, the Labour Party has decided her successor WILL be a woman. (Labour is absolutely going to win. Their candidate = The MP)
A gay guy (He isn't faking. He really is a gay guy.) was going to run to be the Labour candidate, and now there is a huge internal row in the local party.
Basically the two successors were a woman who is a town councillor, and a gay guy who is a town councillor.
Then came the national response of "Well, we need women." and it's divided us all.

I'm of the opinion that the election should be open, and let the best politician win. What do you guys think?

is it worth the gay guy backing down so as to move closer/maintain womens progress in parliament, or not?
(For the record, I support the woman. But it's still a shit result.)

Who the fuck cares if there are a lot of women in Parliament or not? Elections are supposed to be based off of political skill, not gender or sexuality. The best politician is the politician that deserves to win, not the politician that will make the Labour Party look more progressive.

This. You need to make them more progressive, not just look the part.

[MERIZoC]

Say, just a thought, why exactly is coming out such an important thing to so many people? I don't get why it's supposed to be such a big deal, and why people feel obligated to do it. Do people really need to know what gender turns you on? Maybe I'm just crazy, but I don't really think that people should need or want to come out; what turns you on and who you want to be with is your business, hetero homo or bisexual, and you really shouldn't have to tell somebody unless they ask or if you want to date them.

I'm not gay, so I'm not really the best qualified to talk about this, but here goes. Coming out is a scary prospect for many people, as they may face stigmatization and humiliation from some people, their families included. I think the reason for coming out is that people don't want to have to keep it in: they don't want to have the burden of keeping it a secret. Many of the people that I know are gay/bisexual have said that it feels much better to get that weight off their shoulders.

[Othelos]

- Idaho (Judge Candy Dale, Latta v. Otter), apparently just hours ago.

Is it bad that it surprised me more than Utah and Arkansas together? D:

Surprised me, too.

Aside from all the amazing rights to marriage going on. I'm just sort of irritated with people today. Mostly because I've been off and thinking of familial love changes after coming out. I hate the promise of 'unconditional' love. Which you should only ever promise if you 100% mean it. Which is definitely not love that means 'I love you even though you're gay.'

I know exactly what you're talking about. My family couldn't be less supportive or understanding, and my relationships with family members have definitely changed for the worse after coming out.

Say, just a thought, why exactly is coming out such an important thing to so many people? I don't get why it's supposed to be such a big deal, and why people feel obligated to do it. Do people really need to know what gender turns you on? Maybe I'm just crazy, but I don't really think that people should need or want to come out; what turns you on and who you want to be with is your business, hetero homo or bisexual, and you really shouldn't have to tell somebody unless they ask or if you want to date them.

Well for people around you that you care about, it might be a good idea to come out, just so it isn't shocking to them or you can see whether or not they'd support you in a relationship. Actually the only people I've directly said 'I'm gay' to are my parents. I told my friends by referencing coming out to my parents, which is way more casual.

Everyone else doesn't really matter though.

[Fascist Russian Empire]

I'm not gay, so I'm not really the best qualified to talk about this, but here goes. Coming out is a scary prospect for many people, as they may face stigmatization and humiliation from some people, their families included. I think the reason for coming out is that people don't want to have to keep it in: they don't want to have the burden of keeping it a secret. Many of the people that I know are gay/bisexual have said that it feels much better to get that weight off their shoulders.

But how is not telling somebody something the same as keeping it a secret? It's like being a fan of a TV show and choosing not to tell your friends about it; that ain't keeping it a secret, it's just choosing not to talk about it.

Again, maybe I'm just crazy, but I don't get why coming out is supposed to be so important, even as a homosexual myself. Sexuality isn't such an important part of my life, and I don't get why I should bother telling people who probably wouldn't care what gender I fantasize about anyway; unless I want my family to arrange for me to get married to some random guy, they don't need to know.

Well for people around you that you care about, it might be a good idea to come out, just so it isn't shocking to them or you can see whether or not they'd support you in a relationship. Actually the only people I've directly said 'I'm gay' to are my parents. I told my friends by referencing coming out to my parents, which is way more casual.

Everyone else doesn't really matter though.

Who cares if they'd support you in a relationship or not? I'd really rather have my parents out of my love life, and have my relationship be private, be it same or opposite sex. I don't need to have anybody's approval to date somebody, nor do I need to feel validated by anybody. It's probably just me, but I don't think family really matters; I fucking hate my family, so I'm probably biased on the matter, but still.

[MERIZoC]

I'm not gay, so I'm not really the best qualified to talk about this, but here goes. Coming out is a scary prospect for many people, as they may face stigmatization and humiliation from some people, their families included. I think the reason for coming out is that people don't want to have to keep it in: they don't want to have the burden of keeping it a secret. Many of the people that I know are gay/bisexual have said that it feels much better to get that weight off their shoulders.

But how is not telling somebody something the same as keeping it a secret? It's like being a fan of a TV show and choosing not to tell your friends about it; that ain't keeping it a secret, it's just choosing not to talk about it.

Again, maybe I'm just crazy, but I don't get why coming out is supposed to be so important, even as a homosexual myself. Sexuality isn't such an important part of my life, and I don't get why I should bother telling people who probably wouldn't care what gender I fantasize about anyway; unless I want my family to arrange for me to get married to some random guy, they don't need to know.

I'm afraid I don't have an answer for you. You'd be better off talking to someone else who has come out.

[Othelos]

I'm not gay, so I'm not really the best qualified to talk about this, but here goes. Coming out is a scary prospect for many people, as they may face stigmatization and humiliation from some people, their families included. I think the reason for coming out is that people don't want to have to keep it in: they don't want to have the burden of keeping it a secret. Many of the people that I know are gay/bisexual have said that it feels much better to get that weight off their shoulders.

But how is not telling somebody something the same as keeping it a secret? It's like being a fan of a TV show and choosing not to tell your friends about it; that ain't keeping it a secret, it's just choosing not to talk about it.

Again, maybe I'm just crazy, but I don't get why coming out is supposed to be so important, even as a homosexual myself. Sexuality isn't such an important part of my life, and I don't get why I should bother telling people who probably wouldn't care what gender I fantasize about anyway; unless I want my family to arrange for me to get married to some random guy, they don't need to know.

Because people are inevitably going to ask you who you think is attractive, who you like, etc. etc. and coming out to them will save you from lying or avoiding the convo. 'Coming out' isn't always just saying "I'm gay/bi". It could be just telling someone you like someone of the same sex.

Well for people around you that you care about, it might be a good idea to come out, just so it isn't shocking to them or you can see whether or not they'd support you in a relationship. Actually the only people I've directly said 'I'm gay' to are my parents. I told my friends by referencing coming out to my parents, which is way more casual.

Everyone else doesn't really matter though.

Who cares if they'd support you in a relationship or not? I'd really rather have my parents out of my love life, and have my relationship be private, be it same or opposite sex. I don't need to have anybody's approval to date somebody, nor do I need to feel validated by anybody. It's probably just me, but I don't think family really matters; I fucking hate my family, so I'm probably biased on the matter, but still.

It comes down to personal preference. Sometimes parents/family take a while to come around, and letting them know early on is gonna save you grief when you actually get in a relationship (or want to be open about it). Or, if your parents/family piss you off, then don't.

A lot of people do want to share what's going on in their life with their family.

[Kelinfort]

Just gets better and better

http://www.seattlepi.com/news/us/articl ... 475772.php

[Geilinor]

Just gets better and better

http://www.seattlepi.com/news/us/articl ... 475772.php

It's the unexpected states every time now. A good sign.

[Geilinor]

Otter cited the state's constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage.

Are some people dense or what? State law means nothing against the federal constitution.

[Vareiln]

Say, just a thought, why exactly is coming out such an important thing to so many people? I don't get why it's supposed to be such a big deal, and why people feel obligated to do it. Do people really need to know what gender turns you on? Maybe I'm just crazy, but I don't really think that people should need or want to come out; what turns you on and who you want to be with is your business, hetero homo or bisexual, and you really shouldn't have to tell somebody unless they ask or if you want to date them.

In my case, I will have to do it.
Problem is, my younger brother is a raging transphobic(And mildly homophobic, despite my older brother being gay) douchebag, my father has more or less abandoned me, and the rest of my family is a bunch of strongly conservative Catholics who just barely tolerate my older brother.
All these people and more, I will eventually have to come out to if I want my life to be better, yet the first people I came out to, with two exceptions, did not react positively.
Now, of course, this is just my life. But hopefully it provides some insight for you. Hopefully, you'll learn that not everyone can afford apathy or silence in this.

[Fascist Russian Empire]

A lot of people do want to share what's going on in their life with their family.

Well, now that I think about it, I guess that makes sense.

In my case, I will have to do it.
Problem is, my younger brother is a raging transphobic(And mildly homophobic, despite my older brother being gay) douchebag, my father has more or less abandoned me, and the rest of my family is a bunch of strongly conservative Catholics who just barely tolerate my older brother.
All these people and more, I will eventually have to come out to if I want my life to be better, yet the first people I came out to, with two exceptions, did not react positively.
Now, of course, this is just my life. But hopefully it provides some insight for you. Hopefully, you'll learn that not everyone can afford apathy or silence in this.

Damn, that sucks.

So, if your family is homophobic, then why bother telling them that you're a homosexual? How will that make your life better, having a bunch of intolerant people judging you constantly for who you are? That sounds like it would make your life worse, not better, having the people around you hate you. Of course, I wouldn't give a fuck; my family hates me and I hate them (though, almost entirely for religious reasons, not because of sexuality), so I wouldn't have anything to lose, but if you have a good relationship with your family, it wouldn't be such a good idea to ruin it by telling them that you like guys.

[Othelos]

Say, just a thought, why exactly is coming out such an important thing to so many people? I don't get why it's supposed to be such a big deal, and why people feel obligated to do it. Do people really need to know what gender turns you on? Maybe I'm just crazy, but I don't really think that people should need or want to come out; what turns you on and who you want to be with is your business, hetero homo or bisexual, and you really shouldn't have to tell somebody unless they ask or if you want to date them.

In my case, I will have to do it.
Problem is, my younger brother is a raging transphobic(And mildly homophobic, despite my older brother being gay) douchebag, my father has more or less abandoned me, and the rest of my family is a bunch of strongly conservative Catholics who just barely tolerate my older brother.
All these people and more, I will eventually have to come out to if I want my life to be better, yet the first people I came out to, with two exceptions, did not react positively.
Now, of course, this is just my life. But hopefully it provides some insight for you. Hopefully, you'll learn that not everyone can afford apathy or silence in this.

another good point^

[Othelos]

In my case, I will have to do it.
Problem is, my younger brother is a raging transphobic(And mildly homophobic, despite my older brother being gay) douchebag, my father has more or less abandoned me, and the rest of my family is a bunch of strongly conservative Catholics who just barely tolerate my older brother.
All these people and more, I will eventually have to come out to if I want my life to be better, yet the first people I came out to, with two exceptions, did not react positively.
Now, of course, this is just my life. But hopefully it provides some insight for you. Hopefully, you'll learn that not everyone can afford apathy or silence in this.

Damn, that sucks.

So, if your family is homophobic, then why bother telling them that you're a homosexual? How will that make your life better, having a bunch of intolerant people judging you constantly for who you are? That sounds like it would make your life worse, not better, having the people around you hate you. Of course, I wouldn't give a fuck; my family hates me and I hate them (though, almost entirely for religious reasons, not because of sexuality), so I wouldn't have anything to lose, but if you have a good relationship with your family, it wouldn't be such a good idea to ruin it by telling them that you like guys.

My family is the same way as his, but I wanted to give them a chance to actually be supportive for once. Of course, it didn't work out and now I hate living here.

It's really not worth it if they're homophobic, unless you can leave.

[Wintersdown]

Aside from all the amazing rights to marriage going on. I'm just sort of irritated with people today. Mostly because I've been off and thinking of familial love changes after coming out. I hate the promise of 'unconditional' love. Which you should only ever promise if you 100% mean it. Which is definitely not love that means 'I love you even though you're gay.'

I know exactly what you're talking about. My family couldn't be less supportive or understanding, and my relationships with family members have definitely changed for the worse after coming out.

It's not that my family is unsupportive (Then again only my liberal half sister and my mother know I'm a lesbian). But not my relationship with my mom has changed. Like when she tells me she loves me it's always 'no matter what' which means 'even though you're gay' and like I know she doesn't like Elton John because he's gay and I mentioned that recently and she said 'no no that's not true' and she expects me to just stay religious and chaste and not ever find someone to love me back and I deserve love too don't I? I have just as much right as any hetero to be loved for who I am by someone else.

[Othelos]

I know exactly what you're talking about. My family couldn't be less supportive or understanding, and my relationships with family members have definitely changed for the worse after coming out.

It's not that my family is unsupportive (Then again only my liberal half sister and my mother know I'm a lesbian). But not my relationship with my mom has changed. Like when she tells me she loves me it's always 'no matter what' which means 'even though you're gay' and like I know she doesn't like Elton John because he's gay and I mentioned that recently and she said 'no no that's not true' and she expects me to just stay religious and chaste and not ever find someone to love me back and I deserve love too don't I? I have just as much right as any hetero to be loved for who I am by someone else.

I see what you're saying. In a lot of people mind's, having a sexual orientation other than straight is a kind of flaw that they're willing to overlook.

As people become more accepting, things will get better. You have a right to be with whoever you love, and showing the world that will help make it a better place.