What do you think about UKIP?

[Eastfield Lodge]

To anyone thinking how ironic it is that UKIP wants homeopathy on the NHS, whilst simultaneously hating it, my guess is so they can show that the NHS is suddenly failing massively in successfully treating people and therefore needs to be disbanded and healthcare re-privatised.

[Imperializt Russia]

To anyone thinking how ironic it is that UKIP wants homeopathy on the NHS, whilst simultaneously hating it, my guess is so they can show that the NHS is suddenly failing massively in successfully treating people and therefore needs to be disbanded and healthcare re-privatised.

They've dropped that policy and repeatedly state it was a "2010 manifesto policy" and claim to no longer support it.

[Quintium]

It's about the political position, and popular opinion about that. My request for you is to provide me with a credible source about popular opinion.
Not how many people own firearms, but how many people would support the position of the United Kingdom Independence Party on this issue.
So far, I've seen nothing about that, and yet you're claiming that it's a very unpopular or insignificant view.

It's not enough of an issue to even be studied. I'm basing my argument entirely off of logical deduction. If you can't see that, that's not my problem.

It's not a very logical deduction, is it? Relatively few people (and relatively many compared to the rest of Europe, I believe) have gone through the hassle of purchasing and registering firearms, and you deduct from that that the public's position on deregulating firearm ownership is either unfavourable or indifferent. I'm sorry, but that's a non-sequitur.

[Divair]

It's not enough of an issue to even be studied. I'm basing my argument entirely off of logical deduction. If you can't see that, that's not my problem.

It's not a very logical deduction, is it? Relatively few people (and relatively many compared to the rest of Europe, I believe) have gone through the hassle of purchasing and registering firearms, and you deduct from that that the public's position on deregulating firearm ownership is either unfavourable or indifferent. I'm sorry, but that's a non-sequitur.

I find this hilarious because you're the one that brought up firearm statistics.
viewtopic.php?p=18978488#p18978488
I expect an apology, thanks.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

Ardent capitalist, Thatcherite, and Blairite though I am, UKIP is abhorrent to a proper cosmopolitan social liberal internationalist like me and deserves the same treatment that Fascist Germany got: liberal improvement.

Can you go over your political views once again and explain each of them to me?

Capitalist: let value flow.
Thatcherite: pro free markets and privatism and international interventionist.
Blairite: pro social mobility, social and international interventionism, and anti-nationalization.
Cosmopolitan: enjoy and celebrate cultural diversity.
Social liberal: people should be free to do pretty much whatever they like.
Internationalist: anti-isolationist.

UKIP actually fits none of these: I sincerely doubt they would even leave the free market alone. Fascists never do.

[Quintium]

It's not a very logical deduction, is it? Relatively few people (and relatively many compared to the rest of Europe, I believe) have gone through the hassle of purchasing and registering firearms, and you deduct from that that the public's position on deregulating firearm ownership is either unfavourable or indifferent. I'm sorry, but that's a non-sequitur.

I find this hilarious because you're the one that brought up firearm statistics.
viewtopic.php?p=18978488#p18978488
I expect an apology, thanks.

That was something I brought up as a response to 'nobody owns guns'. Apparently, there is one gun for every thirty or so people in the United Kingdom, so the first part of your claim was a very unfortunate exaggeration based on your personal opinion. Your second claim - 'nobody cares' - I've yet to see any sources about, and that's what I'm asking you for. You made the claim that nobody cares, so be prepared to back it up. Your hunch isn't enough to base a bold claim like that on, and the idea that it follows from current firearm ownership rates is a painfully crooked type of reasoning.

[4years]

I actually like UKIP.

Why you ask? Because they'll hand the next election to Labour and maybe he one after that as well, plus their busy poisoning the well of Euroskepticism.

[Greater-London]

I actually like UKIP.

Why you ask? Because they'll hand the next election to Labour and many the one after that as well, plus their busy poisoning the well of Euroskepticism.

Whilst I agree on the first point the second I'll have to question. If anything they've made Euroscepticism part of the mainstream of British politics, both Labour and the Torries are running scared as UKIP isn't just hoovering up votes in the shires it has a growing working class following too. I can imagine come election time Ed going the way of David and promising a referendum on EU membership in an attempt to stop the UKIP vote making gains from Labour too.

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

I actually like UKIP.

Why you ask? Because they'll hand the next election to Labour and many the one after that as well, plus their busy poisoning the well of Euroskepticism.

[Quintium]

It's often thought that UKIP serves only to divide the Tory vote, but that's not entirely true. In fact, it appears that only 31% of UKIP's voters in the Eastleigh by-election voted for the Tories in 2010. Another 31% of new UKIP voters in that election voted for the Lib Dems, and 15% did not vote at all before UKIP came along. A few percent of UKIP's new voters even came from Labour.
http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/fac ... ukip/12934
http://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom ... in-britain

[Wolfmanne]

It's often thought that UKIP serves only to divide the Tory vote, but that's not entirely true. In fact, it appears that only 31% of UKIP's voters in the Eastleigh by-election voted for the Tories in 2010. Another 31% of new UKIP voters in that election voted for the Lib Dems, and 15% did not vote at all before UKIP came along. A few percent of UKIP's new voters even came from Labour.
http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/fac ... ukip/12934
http://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom ... in-britain

People who can't bring themselves to vote for Labour but are pissed with the Tories tend to vote for the Lib Dems. Just look at South West England for an example of this. So yeah, it is natural that Euroskeptics who voted for the Lib Dems would vote for UKIP.

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

It's often thought that UKIP serves only to divide the Tory vote, but that's not entirely true. In fact, it appears that only 31% of UKIP's voters in the Eastleigh by-election voted for the Tories in 2010. Another 31% of new UKIP voters in that election voted for the Lib Dems, and 15% did not vote at all before UKIP came along. A few percent of UKIP's new voters even came from Labour.
http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/fac ... ukip/12934
http://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom ... in-britain

Your second link gave me in a text over a completely different matter a very good reason to why I, IIIIII, would like the UKIP a bit more.

http://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/niki-seth-smith/ukip-and-rise-of-english-nationalism

[Imperializt Russia]

It's not a very logical deduction, is it? Relatively few people (and relatively many compared to the rest of Europe, I believe) have gone through the hassle of purchasing and registering firearms, and you deduct from that that the public's position on deregulating firearm ownership is either unfavourable or indifferent. I'm sorry, but that's a non-sequitur.

I find this hilarious because you're the one that brought up firearm statistics.
viewtopic.php?p=18978488#p18978488
I expect an apology, thanks.

>nobody has guns
>two million firearms

Two million, Div. There is no metric by which that is "not a lot", since it's one for every thirty people. It's one for every school classroom or office floor or small apartment building. Every one.

[Vyvland]

I actually like UKIP.

Why you ask? Because they'll hand the next election to Labour and many the one after that as well, plus their busy poisoning the well of Euroskepticism.

Whilst I agree on the first point the second I'll have to question. If anything they've made Euroscepticism part of the mainstream of British politics, both Labour and the Torries are running scared as UKIP isn't just hoovering up votes in the shires it has a growing working class following too. I can imagine come election time Ed going the way of David and promising a referendum on EU membership in an attempt to stop the UKIP vote making gains from Labour too.

It may well be possible that UKIP, once a more established force, will discredit euroscepticism merely through association, to more moderate voters. I think that's the logic in this statement; whether it's true or not is a different question.

[Rabopari]

To anyone thinking how ironic it is that UKIP wants homeopathy on the NHS, whilst simultaneously hating it, my guess is so they can show that the NHS is suddenly failing massively in successfully treating people and therefore needs to be disbanded and healthcare re-privatised.

The reason it's failing is because of the Torys. They want the NHS to crumble so they can set up there own private medical companies and get rich off it. It is also the fault of the hospital managers who don't know shit about what goes on in the Wards. The NHS should not be disbanded but should return to the way it was run when it started.

[Eastfield Lodge]

To anyone thinking how ironic it is that UKIP wants homeopathy on the NHS, whilst simultaneously hating it, my guess is so they can show that the NHS is suddenly failing massively in successfully treating people and therefore needs to be disbanded and healthcare re-privatised.

The reason it's failing is because of the Torys. They want the NHS to crumble so they can set up there own private medical companies and get rich off it. It is also the fault of the hospital managers who don't know shit about what goes on in the Wards. The NHS should not be disbanded but should return to the way it was run when it started.

Yes I know that (I'm applying to study medicine at uni, I sort of have to). But that policy would have made things a whole lot worse anyways. At least they've got the sense to drop it.

[Malgrave]

Labour, are we? Just one of the parties, like the Conservative Party, that bribes voters in the short term and sets them up for economic, demographic, social and military disaster in the long term.

Conservative and Labour each have a collective set of voters that agree with the overall idealogical position of both parties and that is bribery? I'm going out on a limb here and say not agreeing with your own personal views = bribery.

Let's let the entire world move to the United Kingdom

Who is calling for immigration on that large a scale? The United Kingdom still has controls of non-EU immigration and statistics show that EU immigration has been beneficial to the UK economy.

even after the riots two years ago

Riots caused by anger over poor government services, the shooting of a local lad and a few opportunistic rioters not immigration.

and with unemployment among young British people very high.

and? I've not seen any data that immigration is harmful to the employment rate of the native population. I know you have a field day with anyone using the Guardian but the article is based on ONS data.

Let's let the bureaucrats who engineered the common currency and operate by the principle of an ever-closer union dictate more and more British policies! I'm sure nothing will go wrong!

again...and? I fail to see how our country is being negatively impacted by EU Directives and even so this is a rather small percentage compared to the lie currently spread by UKIP supporters.

You could also look at it from another perspective - at least their leadership is not centered around Ed Miliband, Gordon Brown or Tony Blair. Compared to those three, and to David Cameron and Nick Clegg, Nigel Farage is a world-class speaker and a world-class politician.

So being forced to abandon UKIP's entire manifesto and then claim to have never read it despite being present at the launch is the sign of a world-class politician? Making the entire country look stupid by throwing petty insults at the Former Prime Minister of Belgium makes you a world-class speaker? I don't think so.

He has the appeal of an ordinary, if slightly eccentric, British man. He's not a Belgian-Polish Jew like Miliband or an oversized public school boy like David Cameron, or a pretentious globalist like Clegg.

I thought Nigel Farage wanted to get rid of the racist anti-semitc fruitcakes? I don't see what Miliband's religion or ethnic background has got to do with anything and it sounds incredibly hypocritical (and makes you look like a racist moron) since Farage himself has Huguenot ancestors.

I'm sure Labour isn't going to sing the Internationale smack-bang in the City of London and then expect people to like them, and the Lib Dems are pretty much silent about every issue now.

Labour has drifted over to the centre-left over decades and Lib Dem activists are still incredibly passionate about certain issues. UKIP just decided to throw away its entire manifesto and start again in less than a month, quite embarrassing.

All parties occasionally part with their original views, or give them a less prominent place in their rhetoric. It's what being a political party is all about, unfortunately.

and they do this gradually and over several years. I've not seen a single mainstream party abandon its entire manifesto in a week and then claim it was all bullshit.

There are issues a lot more pressing than global warming. In fact, even if mankind ceased all pollution, the climate would still change, as it has been for billions of years. If you look at changes in global temperatures in the past ten thousand years instead of the past one hundred years, you'll find that what we're facing now is not unique. The temperatures we have now are roughly comparable to those we had around 950-1250 AD.

Why don't you read this handy website and educate yourself. http://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

[The USOT]

I actually like UKIP.

Why you ask? Because they'll hand the next election to Labour and maybe he one after that as well, plus their busy poisoning the well of Euroskepticism.

Why do you want Labour?

I would have thought as one of the more notable left wing persons on here, you would be more interested in a left wing party rather than a center right?

[Imperializt Russia]

I actually like UKIP.

Why you ask? Because they'll hand the next election to Labour and maybe he one after that as well, plus their busy poisoning the well of Euroskepticism.

Why do you want Labour?

I would have thought as one of the more notable left wing persons on here, you would be more interested in a left wing party rather than a center right?

Because, as I've been saying, you have to compromise on your views in favour of a party that best approximates your views that has a realistic prospect of leadership. Hence, Labour, which I too wish to vote.

[Malgrave]

Why do you want Labour?

I would have thought as one of the more notable left wing persons on here, you would be more interested in a left wing party rather than a center right?

Because, as I've been saying, you have to compromise on your views in favour of a party that best approximates your views that has a realistic prospect of leadership. Hence, Labour, which I too wish to vote.

I also wish to drag Labour back to the centre-left

[Tagmatium]

Because, as I've been saying, you have to compromise on your views in favour of a party that best approximates your views that has a realistic prospect of leadership. Hence, Labour, which I too wish to vote.

I also wish to drag Labour back to the centre-left

Shame it's something of an on-going trend, the swing rightwards.

[Malgrave]

I also wish to drag Labour back to the centre-left

Shame it's something of an on-going trend, the swing rightwards.

I have the spirit of Clement Atlee on my side, a twitter account and a potential run for local office ....

[Ifreann]

I find this hilarious because you're the one that brought up firearm statistics.
viewtopic.php?p=18978488#p18978488
I expect an apology, thanks.

>nobody has guns
>two million firearms

Two million, Div. There is no metric by which that is "not a lot", since it's one for every thirty people. It's one for every school classroom or office floor or small apartment building. Every one.

How many guns there are does not tell you how many people own guns.

[Imperializt Russia]

I also wish to drag Labour back to the centre-left

Shame it's something of an on-going trend, the swing rightwards.

Economic downturn causes political parties to pander to right-wing viewpoints.

Because... I don't even know what. But it works.

[Imperializt Russia]

>nobody has guns
>two million firearms

Two million, Div. There is no metric by which that is "not a lot", since it's one for every thirty people. It's one for every school classroom or office floor or small apartment building. Every one.

How many guns there are does not tell you how many people own guns.

Yes, that's why you look at the number of licences issued, which are still a very large number.
I still find the fact that two million registered firearms exist in the UK to be a surprisingly large number.