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What do you think about UKIP?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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What is your opinion of UKIP?

A very positive one
56
18%
Somewhat positive
33
11%
Pretty neutral
24
8%
Somewhat negative
38
12%
Very negative
154
50%
 
Total votes : 305

User avatar
Shove Piggy Shove
Diplomat
 
Posts: 757
Founded: Oct 17, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Shove Piggy Shove » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:06 am

Estormo wrote:
Shove Piggy Shove wrote:
That's not really an expansion, it's just a nonsensical statement with no supporting arguments...

Must I? For example, they do not allow just any random immigrant who wants into the UK


There are already immigration controls in place, and overall immigration to the UK is beneficial:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 73647.html
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014 ... t-advisers
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... itain.html
Save the Creme Egg!

Tim Minchin wrote:I'm not pessimistic about the supernatural, but rather I'm optimistic about the natural
Jasper Fforde wrote:If the real world were a book, it would never find a publisher. Overlong, detailed to the point of distraction - and ultimately, without a major resolution.
Dennis the peasant wrote:Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.

User avatar
Estormo
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1441
Founded: Feb 17, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Estormo » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:08 am

L Ron Cupboard wrote:
Estormo wrote:They do not want to destroy white countries. Expanded.


Is that an implied 'unlike the three big parties'? That would be precious.

Unlike Labour.
......ϟ Elven Supremacy is the only Truth! ϟ......
French Male, the women call me Goldenrod. I am a Roman Catholic, also an Opera, Wine, Fashion, and Classical music aficionado.
I am neither "Left" or "Right", but I am syncretic. I agree with both sides on certain issues and disagree with both sides on certain issues. There would be too much to explain, if you would like to know my views on certain things, then go to my factbook. Or just see me on NSG.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsY4vK2BUzg

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 159079
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:09 am

Estormo wrote:
Ifreann wrote:They do, they just don't realise it.

Incorrect.

No, it's quite correct. Pulling out of the EU would be terrible for the UK.

User avatar
Estormo
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1441
Founded: Feb 17, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Estormo » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:10 am

Shove Piggy Shove wrote:
Estormo wrote:Must I? For example, they do not allow just any random immigrant who wants into the UK


There are already immigration controls in place, and overall immigration to the UK is beneficial:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 73647.html
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014 ... t-advisers
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... itain.html

1. It may be good for you economy, but it destroys your culture
2. The Guardian is a biased source, not to be taken with any seriousness.
3. It also gives Labour more votes
......ϟ Elven Supremacy is the only Truth! ϟ......
French Male, the women call me Goldenrod. I am a Roman Catholic, also an Opera, Wine, Fashion, and Classical music aficionado.
I am neither "Left" or "Right", but I am syncretic. I agree with both sides on certain issues and disagree with both sides on certain issues. There would be too much to explain, if you would like to know my views on certain things, then go to my factbook. Or just see me on NSG.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsY4vK2BUzg

User avatar
Estormo
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1441
Founded: Feb 17, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Estormo » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:11 am

Ifreann wrote:
Estormo wrote:Incorrect.

No, it's quite correct. Pulling out of the EU would be terrible for the UK.

Look at Norway, the place is hell isn't it?
......ϟ Elven Supremacy is the only Truth! ϟ......
French Male, the women call me Goldenrod. I am a Roman Catholic, also an Opera, Wine, Fashion, and Classical music aficionado.
I am neither "Left" or "Right", but I am syncretic. I agree with both sides on certain issues and disagree with both sides on certain issues. There would be too much to explain, if you would like to know my views on certain things, then go to my factbook. Or just see me on NSG.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsY4vK2BUzg

User avatar
L Ron Cupboard
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9054
Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby L Ron Cupboard » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:11 am

Estormo wrote:
L Ron Cupboard wrote:
Is that an implied 'unlike the three big parties'? That would be precious.

Unlike Labour.


I must have missed Ed's "Kill Whitey" speech.
A leopard in every home, you know it makes sense.

User avatar
Alyakia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18422
Founded: Jul 12, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Alyakia » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:11 am

Estormo wrote:1. It may be good for you economy, but it destroys your culture


ban kebabs, go back to old english. it's also been corrupted by forefingers but it's the best we have for now.
pro: good
anti: bad

The UK and EU are Better Together

"Margaret Thatcher showed the world that women are not too soft or the weaker sex, and can be as heartless, horrible, and amoral as any male politician."

User avatar
Shove Piggy Shove
Diplomat
 
Posts: 757
Founded: Oct 17, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Shove Piggy Shove » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:12 am

Estormo wrote:
Ifreann wrote:No, it's quite correct. Pulling out of the EU would be terrible for the UK.

Look at Norway, the place is hell isn't it?


Norway has never been in the EU, so it isn't a true comparison.
Save the Creme Egg!

Tim Minchin wrote:I'm not pessimistic about the supernatural, but rather I'm optimistic about the natural
Jasper Fforde wrote:If the real world were a book, it would never find a publisher. Overlong, detailed to the point of distraction - and ultimately, without a major resolution.
Dennis the peasant wrote:Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.

User avatar
Magna Libero
Minister
 
Posts: 2864
Founded: Jun 13, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Magna Libero » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:13 am

Fairly positive, actually. A quick look on the party shows that I disagree with immigration and I don't think a 40% increase in the UK's defense budget is necessary.
hi

User avatar
Estormo
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1441
Founded: Feb 17, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Estormo » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:13 am

Shove Piggy Shove wrote:
Estormo wrote:Look at Norway, the place is hell isn't it?


Norway has never been in the EU, so it isn't a true comparison.

The UK should have never been, or any nation.
......ϟ Elven Supremacy is the only Truth! ϟ......
French Male, the women call me Goldenrod. I am a Roman Catholic, also an Opera, Wine, Fashion, and Classical music aficionado.
I am neither "Left" or "Right", but I am syncretic. I agree with both sides on certain issues and disagree with both sides on certain issues. There would be too much to explain, if you would like to know my views on certain things, then go to my factbook. Or just see me on NSG.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsY4vK2BUzg

User avatar
Everia
Envoy
 
Posts: 324
Founded: May 07, 2013
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Everia » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:15 am

Shove Piggy Shove wrote:
Everia wrote:I like their policies on the issues.

I don't know how you want me to expand on it. Maybe something to discuss would help.


Which issues? EU? Immigration? NHS? Same Sex Marriage? Environment/Power?

EU: EU can go fuck off for all I care. Terrible and pointless organization with no purpose.
Same-sex marriage: I really don't care honestly. However, I'd first take the government out of marriage completely. It is in my opinion a spiritual/religious ceremony that would be best left in the hands of the people free of state interference. Civil unions, however, is how the State should go about this issue and such.
Environment: Another issue I couldn't give a damn about. Energy independence is cool though I guess.

User avatar
Shove Piggy Shove
Diplomat
 
Posts: 757
Founded: Oct 17, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Shove Piggy Shove » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:15 am

Estormo wrote:
Shove Piggy Shove wrote:
There are already immigration controls in place, and overall immigration to the UK is beneficial:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 73647.html
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014 ... t-advisers
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... itain.html

1. It may be good for you economy, but it destroys your culture
2. The Guardian is a biased source, not to be taken with any seriousness.
3. It also gives Labour more votes


1. How does it destroy our culture?
2. I gave you three sources that all agree, the fact that you dislike one of the papers doesn't change the validity of the argument
3. Source? Also, why does this matter?
Save the Creme Egg!

Tim Minchin wrote:I'm not pessimistic about the supernatural, but rather I'm optimistic about the natural
Jasper Fforde wrote:If the real world were a book, it would never find a publisher. Overlong, detailed to the point of distraction - and ultimately, without a major resolution.
Dennis the peasant wrote:Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.

User avatar
Alyakia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18422
Founded: Jul 12, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Alyakia » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:16 am

Everia wrote:
Shove Piggy Shove wrote:
Which issues? EU? Immigration? NHS? Same Sex Marriage? Environment/Power?

EU: EU can go fuck off for all I care. Terrible and pointless organization with no purpose.
Same-sex marriage: I really don't care honestly. However, I'd first take the government out of marriage completely. It is in my opinion a spiritual/religious ceremony that would be best left in the hands of the people free of state interference. Civil unions, however, is how the State should go about this issue and such.
Environment: Another issue I couldn't give a damn about. Energy independence is cool though I guess.


one of UKIPs main policies is immigration

tell us about your views on immigration
pro: good
anti: bad

The UK and EU are Better Together

"Margaret Thatcher showed the world that women are not too soft or the weaker sex, and can be as heartless, horrible, and amoral as any male politician."

User avatar
Estormo
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1441
Founded: Feb 17, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Estormo » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:17 am

Shove Piggy Shove wrote:
Estormo wrote:1. It may be good for you economy, but it destroys your culture
2. The Guardian is a biased source, not to be taken with any seriousness.
3. It also gives Labour more votes


1. How does it destroy our culture?
2. I gave you three sources that all agree, the fact that you dislike one of the papers doesn't change the validity of the argument
3. Source? Also, why does this matter?

Immigration is sure to give labour more votes. They will bring their whole damn families.
......ϟ Elven Supremacy is the only Truth! ϟ......
French Male, the women call me Goldenrod. I am a Roman Catholic, also an Opera, Wine, Fashion, and Classical music aficionado.
I am neither "Left" or "Right", but I am syncretic. I agree with both sides on certain issues and disagree with both sides on certain issues. There would be too much to explain, if you would like to know my views on certain things, then go to my factbook. Or just see me on NSG.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsY4vK2BUzg

User avatar
Alyakia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18422
Founded: Jul 12, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Alyakia » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:18 am

Estormo wrote:
Shove Piggy Shove wrote:
1. How does it destroy our culture?
2. I gave you three sources that all agree, the fact that you dislike one of the papers doesn't change the validity of the argument
3. Source? Also, why does this matter?

Immigration is sure to give labour more votes. They will bring their whole damn families.


prove that immigrants from places like poland or pakistan (usually more conservative than the native population) are more likely to vote labour
Last edited by Alyakia on Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
pro: good
anti: bad

The UK and EU are Better Together

"Margaret Thatcher showed the world that women are not too soft or the weaker sex, and can be as heartless, horrible, and amoral as any male politician."

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 159079
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:18 am

Estormo wrote:
Shove Piggy Shove wrote:
There are already immigration controls in place, and overall immigration to the UK is beneficial:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 73647.html
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014 ... t-advisers
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... itain.html

1. It may be good for you economy, but it destroys your culture

No it doesn't.


Estormo wrote:
Ifreann wrote:No, it's quite correct. Pulling out of the EU would be terrible for the UK.

Look at Norway, the place is hell isn't it?

Not really. How's the Ukraine doing? I hear the EU basically negotiated peace there.

User avatar
Greater-London
Senator
 
Posts: 3791
Founded: Nov 30, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Greater-London » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:19 am

Estormo wrote:1. It may be good for you economy, but it destroys your culture
2. The Guardian is a biased source, not to be taken with any seriousness.
3. It also gives Labour more votes


1. It doesn't destroy British culture. Britain isn't any less British, In fact immigrant cultures have created some uniquely British music, art, food that has its origins from across the globe. Look at Bhangra music or the Chicken Tika Masla both of which are very British but also very Asian. That's whats great about British culture is that its cosmopolitan by nature.

2. Whilst I agree its a biased source its still a legitimate one. Also Telegraph is a paper with a right wing stance so that probably balances things out.

3. It may do, but you can't screen immigrants and deny them entry because of their politics
Born in Cambridge in 1993, just graduated with a 2.1 in Politics and International Relations from the University of Manchester - WHICH IS SICK

PRO: British Unionism, Commonwealth, Liberalism, Federalism, Palestine, NHS, Decriminalizing Drugs, West Ham UTD , Garage Music &, Lager
ANTI: EU, Smoking Ban, Tuition Fees, Conservatism, Crypto-Fascist lefties, Hypocrisy, Religious Fanaticism, Religion Bashing & Armchair activists

Economic Left/Right: 0.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.87

User avatar
Estormo
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1441
Founded: Feb 17, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Estormo » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:19 am

Ifreann wrote:
Estormo wrote:1. It may be good for you economy, but it destroys your culture

No it doesn't.


Estormo wrote:Look at Norway, the place is hell isn't it?

Not really. How's the Ukraine doing? I hear the EU basically negotiated peace there.

Ukraine? All the teeny liberals are fighting for their culture to be destroyed, I do not give a damn !
......ϟ Elven Supremacy is the only Truth! ϟ......
French Male, the women call me Goldenrod. I am a Roman Catholic, also an Opera, Wine, Fashion, and Classical music aficionado.
I am neither "Left" or "Right", but I am syncretic. I agree with both sides on certain issues and disagree with both sides on certain issues. There would be too much to explain, if you would like to know my views on certain things, then go to my factbook. Or just see me on NSG.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsY4vK2BUzg

User avatar
Shove Piggy Shove
Diplomat
 
Posts: 757
Founded: Oct 17, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Shove Piggy Shove » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:19 am

Everia wrote:
Shove Piggy Shove wrote:
Which issues? EU? Immigration? NHS? Same Sex Marriage? Environment/Power?

EU: EU can go fuck off for all I care. Terrible and pointless organization with no purpose.
Same-sex marriage: I really don't care honestly. However, I'd first take the government out of marriage completely. It is in my opinion a spiritual/religious ceremony that would be best left in the hands of the people free of state interference. Civil unions, however, is how the State should go about this issue and such.
Environment: Another issue I couldn't give a damn about. Energy independence is cool though I guess.


The EU does have a purpose, it allows for greater economic unity across Europe - it is the single largest market in the world with an estimated value of approximately £11 trillion. It also allows for free movement of citizens of EU countries, which is also beneficial.

Are there any issues you actually do care about then?
Save the Creme Egg!

Tim Minchin wrote:I'm not pessimistic about the supernatural, but rather I'm optimistic about the natural
Jasper Fforde wrote:If the real world were a book, it would never find a publisher. Overlong, detailed to the point of distraction - and ultimately, without a major resolution.
Dennis the peasant wrote:Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.

User avatar
Estormo
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1441
Founded: Feb 17, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Estormo » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:20 am

Greater-London wrote:
Estormo wrote:1. It may be good for you economy, but it destroys your culture
2. The Guardian is a biased source, not to be taken with any seriousness.
3. It also gives Labour more votes


1. It doesn't destroy British culture. Britain isn't any less British, In fact immigrant cultures have created some uniquely British music, art, food that has its origins from across the globe. Look at Bhangra music or the Chicken Tika Masla both of which are very British but also very Asian. That's whats great about British culture is that its cosmopolitan by nature.

2. Whilst I agree its a biased source its still a legitimate one. Also Telegraph is a paper with a right wing stance so that probably balances things out.

3. It may do, but you can't screen immigrants and deny them entry because of their politics

But you CAN deny them a say in the voting process. ;)
......ϟ Elven Supremacy is the only Truth! ϟ......
French Male, the women call me Goldenrod. I am a Roman Catholic, also an Opera, Wine, Fashion, and Classical music aficionado.
I am neither "Left" or "Right", but I am syncretic. I agree with both sides on certain issues and disagree with both sides on certain issues. There would be too much to explain, if you would like to know my views on certain things, then go to my factbook. Or just see me on NSG.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsY4vK2BUzg

User avatar
Everia
Envoy
 
Posts: 324
Founded: May 07, 2013
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Everia » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:20 am

Alyakia wrote:
Everia wrote:EU: EU can go fuck off for all I care. Terrible and pointless organization with no purpose.
Same-sex marriage: I really don't care honestly. However, I'd first take the government out of marriage completely. It is in my opinion a spiritual/religious ceremony that would be best left in the hands of the people free of state interference. Civil unions, however, is how the State should go about this issue and such.
Environment: Another issue I couldn't give a damn about. Energy independence is cool though I guess.


one of UKIPs main policies is immigration

tell us about your views on immigration

I knew I forgot something.

Immigration: Also don't care.

Muh guns, military, police, justice, and security are the only issues I give a damn for. Surprisingly, I happen to agree with UKIP on 4/5 as I have no idea what they think of gun control.

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 159079
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:24 am

Estormo wrote:
Ifreann wrote:No it doesn't.



Not really. How's the Ukraine doing? I hear the EU basically negotiated peace there.

Ukraine? All the teeny liberals are fighting for their culture to be destroyed, I do not give a damn !

Well Ukraine isn't in the EU, and they're not exactly having a great time of things. If you think that Norway not being hell proves that the UK would be fine outside of the EU, then by that reasoning the fact that Ukraine is basically having a civil war proves that the UK would be fucked outside the EU. We call this being hoist by your own petard.

User avatar
Greater-London
Senator
 
Posts: 3791
Founded: Nov 30, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Greater-London » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:25 am

Alyakia wrote:
prove that immigrants from places like poland or pakistan (usually more conservative than the native population) are more likely to vote labour


Well its quite well document. The Labour party certainly has a better reputation for race relations that the conservatives do and as such have attracted the immigrant vote. They do also go after ethnic minority and immigrant votes and are quite open about it

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... dmits.html
http://labourlist.org/2013/08/the-ethni ... ack-obama/
Born in Cambridge in 1993, just graduated with a 2.1 in Politics and International Relations from the University of Manchester - WHICH IS SICK

PRO: British Unionism, Commonwealth, Liberalism, Federalism, Palestine, NHS, Decriminalizing Drugs, West Ham UTD , Garage Music &, Lager
ANTI: EU, Smoking Ban, Tuition Fees, Conservatism, Crypto-Fascist lefties, Hypocrisy, Religious Fanaticism, Religion Bashing & Armchair activists

Economic Left/Right: 0.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.87

User avatar
Greater-London
Senator
 
Posts: 3791
Founded: Nov 30, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Greater-London » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:28 am

Estormo wrote:But you CAN deny them a say in the voting process. ;)


I presume from the wink that was a joke. On the chance it wasn't you really cant deny someone the vote because you disagree with their politics. Nor can you deny the vote to migrants if they are long term residents of the UK.
Born in Cambridge in 1993, just graduated with a 2.1 in Politics and International Relations from the University of Manchester - WHICH IS SICK

PRO: British Unionism, Commonwealth, Liberalism, Federalism, Palestine, NHS, Decriminalizing Drugs, West Ham UTD , Garage Music &, Lager
ANTI: EU, Smoking Ban, Tuition Fees, Conservatism, Crypto-Fascist lefties, Hypocrisy, Religious Fanaticism, Religion Bashing & Armchair activists

Economic Left/Right: 0.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.87

User avatar
Estormo
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1441
Founded: Feb 17, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Estormo » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:29 am

Ifreann wrote:
Estormo wrote:Ukraine? All the teeny liberals are fighting for their culture to be destroyed, I do not give a damn !

Well Ukraine isn't in the EU, and they're not exactly having a great time of things. If you think that Norway not being hell proves that the UK would be fine outside of the EU, then by that reasoning the fact that Ukraine is basically having a civil war proves that the UK would be fucked outside the EU. We call this being hoist by your own petard.

Not entirely. The UK and Ukraine are two different places. WAY DIFFERENT places.
......ϟ Elven Supremacy is the only Truth! ϟ......
French Male, the women call me Goldenrod. I am a Roman Catholic, also an Opera, Wine, Fashion, and Classical music aficionado.
I am neither "Left" or "Right", but I am syncretic. I agree with both sides on certain issues and disagree with both sides on certain issues. There would be too much to explain, if you would like to know my views on certain things, then go to my factbook. Or just see me on NSG.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsY4vK2BUzg

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