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At what level should education curriculum be decided?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

At what level should public curriculum primarily be decided in the United States?

International
10
20%
National
18
35%
Regional
4
8%
State
5
10%
County
0
No votes
School District
2
4%
School
2
4%
Classroom
1
2%
Student
9
18%
 
Total votes : 51

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Post-Keynesian Economics
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At what level should education curriculum be decided?

Postby Post-Keynesian Economics » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:33 am

This seems to be a recurring issue in American politics, and though most of the people I know support education decisions being made at local levels, the federal government consistently sets federal standards or requirements such as with No Child Left Behind or the voluntary Common Core.

I'm curious of NSG's opinion on this.

Here's one opinion:

http://truthinamericaneducation.com/common-core-state-standards/national-curriculum/

The move towards Common Core State Standards and the two consortia developing assessments have led some to advocate for a common core or national curriculum, as called for by the Albert Shanker Institute in A Call for Common Content: Core Curriculum Must Build A Bridge From Standards to Achievement. A national curriculum would further erode local control and raises other serious issues as indicated in Closing the Door on Innovation: Why One National Curriculum is Bad for America. Closing the Door on Innovation is A Critical Response to the Shanker Institute Manifesto and the U.S. Department of Education’s Initiative to Develop a National Curriculum and National Assessments Based on National Standards. This response includes the following concerns:

No constitutional or statutory basis for national standards, national assessments, or national curricula.
No consistent evidence indicates that a national curriculum leads to high academic achievement.
Developed national standards are inadequate for basing a national curriculum as planned by the administration.
No body of evidence recommends a “best” design for curriculum sequences in any subject.
No body of evidence justifies a single high school curriculum for all students.


Here's another:

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/04/why-i-support-the-common-core-reading-standards/275265/

Reading comprehension skills are not unlike physical muscles: Exercise increases strength. Hence the Common Core reading standards also emphasize the quality and complexity of texts that students read. Instead of a steady diet of watery kiddie lit, the Common Core requires students to grapple with a wide variety of content-rich, high quality texts from across a variety of cultures, eras, and genres. Such texts model for students higher, yet reasonably attainable, models of thinking and writing, better preparing them for career and college. A student will develop more reading comprehension skills during one 50-minute period spent examining one paragraph from the Declaration of Independence than a week of classroom time spent discussing rad themes in the latest young-adult novel.

Many teachers themselves have not been taught to teach this way; indeed many of them have not been taught to read this way themselves. (I know this because these teachers have been in my classroom.) But the Common Core Standards for reading include sample questions particularly to address this gap: The questions are designed for the teachers to use to cultivate the students' deep-reading skills.


Personally, I don't have a deeply formed opinion on this issue but I tend toward less curriculum restrictions by the government because I find that it promotes innovative approaches to education. That said, I don't want schools in places like my home state of Texas to turn into Bible schools when restrictions are lifted.
Last edited by Post-Keynesian Economics on Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:37 am

Outsource the curriculum to India.

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Gallup
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Postby Gallup » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:38 am

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Post-Keynesian Economics
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Postby Post-Keynesian Economics » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:38 am

Ifreann wrote:Outsource the curriculum to India.


When I said "international" I was thinking the UN, but that's an interesting idea too. :lol:
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Temujinn
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Postby Temujinn » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:39 am

I voted international, because in the end I believe that would provide the most equitable playing field for the future. But i believe in all honesty curriculum should be decided in some degree at ALL levels.

And Government (all, any) should have the LEAST amount of authority over that, right behind parents(Yes I have 4 kids, I dont need to tell the school what to teach unless its teach MORE), but having an international standard for curriculum and then riding that bitch on down to the classroom where the teacher can address individual student needs is what should be done...Of course education budgets should go up globally, everywhere. I support the primacy of Education.
Last edited by Temujinn on Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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DesAnges
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Postby DesAnges » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:50 am

Off-topic: Keeping the poll solely focused on the States is a little exclusive, P-KE. The whole board has undertaken a rather Amero-centric shift recently, which is quite irksome. Not necessarily bad, but there are other countries out there with their own problems.

Anyway, on topic. Ideally an international curriculum for most things, with varying ideas as regards national language classes etc. As this ideal is not likely to happen any time soon, it has to be on a national level. One unified, equal curriculum is better than any kind of mangling it would be subjected to by local powers, especially as we can see what happens when people try to muddy the lines between religion and science (that's a whole other debate).

And I fully support Temujinn's call for more money in education. How can you hope to have a well-informed, intelligent populace when you're trying to teach 40 kids in a shed with an apple and a ZX81?
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Post-Keynesian Economics
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Postby Post-Keynesian Economics » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:54 am

DesAnges wrote:Off-topic: Keeping the poll solely focused on the States is a little exclusive, P-KE. The whole board has undertaken a rather Amero-centric shift recently, which is quite irksome. Not necessarily bad, but there are other countries out there with their own problems.

Anyway, on topic. Ideally an international curriculum for most things, with varying ideas as regards national language classes etc. As this ideal is not likely to happen any time soon, it has to be on a national level. One unified, equal curriculum is better than any kind of mangling it would be subjected to by local powers, especially as we can see what happens when people try to muddy the lines between religion and science (that's a whole other debate).

And I fully support Temujinn's call for more money in education. How can you hope to have a well-informed, intelligent populace when you're trying to teach 40 kids in a shed with an apple and a ZX81?


Feel free to make more threads in General related to other countries. :)
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DesAnges
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Postby DesAnges » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:57 am

Post-Keynesian Economics wrote:
DesAnges wrote:Off-topic: Keeping the poll solely focused on the States is a little exclusive, P-KE. The whole board has undertaken a rather Amero-centric shift recently, which is quite irksome. Not necessarily bad, but there are other countries out there with their own problems.

Anyway, on topic. Ideally an international curriculum for most things, with varying ideas as regards national language classes etc. As this ideal is not likely to happen any time soon, it has to be on a national level. One unified, equal curriculum is better than any kind of mangling it would be subjected to by local powers, especially as we can see what happens when people try to muddy the lines between religion and science (that's a whole other debate).

And I fully support Temujinn's call for more money in education. How can you hope to have a well-informed, intelligent populace when you're trying to teach 40 kids in a shed with an apple and a ZX81?


Feel free to make more threads in General related to other countries. :)

I will, as and when the opportunity arises. But opening your poll up a little also opens up the possible avenues of debate that could be explored.

Or people could just ignore the poll. Either way. ;)
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L Ron Cupboard
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Postby L Ron Cupboard » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:58 am

Is it implied that it should only be decided at one level?

I favour broad strokes at an international level, with more detail at national and local level.
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Post-Keynesian Economics
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Postby Post-Keynesian Economics » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:09 am

L Ron Cupboard wrote:Is it implied that it should only be decided at one level?

I favour broad strokes at an international level, with more detail at national and local level.


I guess I meant "primarily."
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Shnercropolis
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Postby Shnercropolis » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:10 am

State. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
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Divair
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Postby Divair » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:11 am

Shnercropolis wrote:State. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Wait, the education system isn't broken?

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:13 am

Divair wrote:
Shnercropolis wrote:State. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Wait, the education system isn't broken?

Since it's decided at the state level, one could argue that there's actually fifty education systems. One of them's bound to be functional.

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Shnercropolis
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Postby Shnercropolis » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:13 am

Divair wrote:
Shnercropolis wrote:State. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Wait, the education system isn't broken?

It could be way, way more broken than it is now.
it is my firm belief that I should never have to justify my beliefs.

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Divair
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Postby Divair » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:14 am

Shnercropolis wrote:
Divair wrote:Wait, the education system isn't broken?

It could be way, way more broken than it is now.

So.. if something could be worse hypothetically, it can't be bad? So nothing is broken?

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Shnercropolis
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Postby Shnercropolis » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:17 am

Divair wrote:
Shnercropolis wrote:It could be way, way more broken than it is now.

So.. if something could be worse hypothetically, it can't be bad? So nothing is broken?

Nope. But if we start messing with the education process at its highest level, it might get way way worse. If we leave it the way it is, we will know how well it works. And honestly, we're not doing that bad.
it is my firm belief that I should never have to justify my beliefs.

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Divair
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Postby Divair » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:18 am

Shnercropolis wrote:
Divair wrote:So.. if something could be worse hypothetically, it can't be bad? So nothing is broken?

Nope. But if we start messing with the education process at its highest level, it might get way way worse. If we leave it the way it is, we will know how well it works. And honestly, we're not doing that bad.

Not doing that bad?

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Shnercropolis
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Postby Shnercropolis » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:20 am

Divair wrote:
Shnercropolis wrote:Nope. But if we start messing with the education process at its highest level, it might get way way worse. If we leave it the way it is, we will know how well it works. And honestly, we're not doing that bad.

Not doing that bad?

Not bad enough to warrant a complete overhaul which may or may not improve anything.
it is my firm belief that I should never have to justify my beliefs.

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Post-Keynesian Economics
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Postby Post-Keynesian Economics » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:20 am

Shnercropolis wrote:
Divair wrote:So.. if something could be worse hypothetically, it can't be bad? So nothing is broken?

Nope. But if we start messing with the education process at its highest level, it might get way way worse. If we leave it the way it is, we will know how well it works. And honestly, we're not doing that bad.


If we start messing with gay rights at its highest level, it might get way worse. If we leave it the way it is, we will know how well it works. And honestly, we're not doing that bad.

If we start messing with human trafficking at its highest level, it might get way worse. If we leave it the way it is, we will know how well it works. And honestly, we're not doing that bad.

If we start messing with unemployment at its highest level, it might get way worse. If we leave it the way it is, we will know how well it works. And honestly, we're not doing that bad.
"Will capitalist economies operate at full employment in the absence of routine intervention? Certainly not. Are deviations from full employment a social problem? Obviously." - Janet Yellen

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Divair
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Postby Divair » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:21 am

Shnercropolis wrote:
Divair wrote:Not doing that bad?

Not bad enough to warrant a complete overhaul which may or may not improve anything.

Sounds like laziness or paranoia on your part.

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The Anarchist Liberation Army
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Postby The Anarchist Liberation Army » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:23 am

Curriculum should be decided by the student and no one else.
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Divair
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Postby Divair » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:23 am

The Anarchist Liberation Army wrote:Curriculum should be decided by the student and no one else.

Nah.

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Postby Chinese Regions » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:24 am

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Postby Vitaphone Racing » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:24 am

All of them.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:24 am

Shnercropolis wrote:
Divair wrote:So.. if something could be worse hypothetically, it can't be bad? So nothing is broken?

Nope. But if we start messing with the education process at its highest level, it might get way way worse.

Or it might get way better. Or it might be different, but of the same quality.
If we leave it the way it is, we will know how well it works. And honestly, we're not doing that bad.

You'll also know how well it works if you change it.

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