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Is immigration positive or negative to the EU?

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Leningrad Union
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Is immigration positive or negative to the EU?

Postby Leningrad Union » Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:48 am

To prevent further threadjack in another thread, I have started this one. My question to NSG is: does immigration help our not help European nations?

I think it can be both positive and negative. If there is the right amount of immigration and it's balanced, it can stimulate the economy with more of a workforce and it's good to have diversity. However, if immigrants and their descendants take up 1/8+ of the population, it could put a strain on the economy with welfare and possible overpopulation.

Etats-Unis Francophones wrote:
Leningrad Union wrote:I actually agree with that. If we didn't take in so much immigrants, we would be better off.

You mean that vital element of the workforce that keeps most of Western Europe from collapsing economically?

Note how I said too much, immigration can be positive if it is in the right amount.
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Gallup
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Postby Gallup » Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:50 am

Positive. People being exposed to new cultures, foods, and ideas is good, and helps us all out.

However, they shouldn't come to the EU expecting a handout. They need to work hard.
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Imperializt Russia
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:50 am

Gallup wrote:Positive. People being exposed to new cultures, foods, and ideas is good, and helps us all out.

However, they shouldn't come to the EU expecting a handout. They need to work hard.

Tell that to a small minority of the EU.
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Glasgia
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Postby Glasgia » Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:50 am

Yes, immigration is positive. I think I disproved the "welfare strain" and "health tourism" elsewhere...

EDIT: Accidentally said negative :/
Last edited by Glasgia on Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Leningrad Union
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Postby Leningrad Union » Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:52 am

Gallup wrote:Positive. People being exposed to new cultures, foods, and ideas is good, and helps us all out.

However, they shouldn't come to the EU expecting a handout. They need to work hard.

Pretty much this. :)

They should be encouraged to find a job, but the governments need to make it easy to get one and welfare should be the last resort.
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:53 am

Glasgia wrote:Yes, immigration is negative. I think I disproved the "welfare strain" and "health tourism" elsewhere...

Because walling countries and ethnicities apart is so good for things and doesn't have poor historical precedents.
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Glasgia
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Postby Glasgia » Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:53 am

Imperializt Russia wrote:
Glasgia wrote:Yes, immigration is negative. I think I disproved the "welfare strain" and "health tourism" elsewhere...

Because walling countries and ethnicities apart is so good for things and doesn't have poor historical precedents.


Shit, meant to say positive....
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ShadowDragons
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Postby ShadowDragons » Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:54 am

If they have some useful skills, aren't criminals, have a job ready, and aren't given welfare then they are quite positive. New ideas and diversity will be very helpful.
Last edited by ShadowDragons on Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Etats-Unis Francophones » Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:54 am

Leningrad Union wrote:
Etats-Unis Francophones wrote:You mean that vital element of the workforce that keeps most of Western Europe from collapsing economically?

Note how I said too much, immigration can be positive if it is in the right amount.

Immigrants come to Europe for jobs, untaken jobs that for whatever reason the present workforce is either incapable of or unwilling to do. They are, to put it simply, a net contributor to the EU's economy.

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Gallup
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Postby Gallup » Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:54 am

Leningrad Union wrote:
Gallup wrote:Positive. People being exposed to new cultures, foods, and ideas is good, and helps us all out.

However, they shouldn't come to the EU expecting a handout. They need to work hard.

Pretty much this. :)

They should be encouraged to find a job, but the governments need to make it easy to get one and welfare should be the last resort.

It needs to fall on the people, not the governments. But, yes, the governments can help.
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New Connorstantinople
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Postby New Connorstantinople » Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:54 am

Positive, if the immigrants have something to contribute.
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Sinal Ornit
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Postby Sinal Ornit » Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:55 am

Gosh dern foreigners!

In all seriousness, yes. Mostly a positive thing. To a certain extent, that is. You can have too much of anything, including immigration.
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Postby Neo Rome Republic » Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:56 am

I prefer Mexicans, I like having a clean lawn. :p
(I'm kidding of course).

I think the immigration being positive or negative, depends on who the immigrants are, and where they come from.
What culture their family was raised in.
I do think that the immigrants should be required, to know the language of the nation they are moving to, for practical reasons of course.
I think immigrants can help in the work force, since many take jobs that citizens usually don't take.
I think immigration is mostly positive, although no system is perfect, no group of people is perfect, so mistakes will happen.
Last edited by Neo Rome Republic on Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:58 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Rubisco
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Postby Rubisco » Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:57 am

If education and social policies are directed in the right way, inmigration will be always positive.

Of course it needs political will, something that many politicians from every ideology don't have.

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Postby Seljuq Kyiv » Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:57 am

The moment they become citizens, they should be treated equal in the eyes of the law. So yes, more citizens that may or not contribute to the economy is good.

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Leningrad Union
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Postby Leningrad Union » Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:58 am

Etats-Unis Francophones wrote:
Leningrad Union wrote:

Note how I said too much, immigration can be positive if it is in the right amount.

Immigrants come to Europe for jobs, untaken jobs that for whatever reason the present workforce is either incapable of or unwilling to do. They are, to put it simply, a net contributor to the EU's economy.

Not always, many come to escape oppression or live in a stable country. I don't think Somalis come to Sverige thinking, "Why, I would love a nicer occupation!", they just want to get the hell out of Somalia.
Last edited by Leningrad Union on Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Britanno » Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:58 am

Depends. Currently, it is not having major effects, but if open door policies are kept for a long time and more and more people start to move from poorer countries to richer ones, immigration could begin to have a much bigger negative impact on European economies. Personally, I think that all skilled workers and a reasonable amount of unskilled workers should be permitted entry, but the situation is different in different nations.

I used to believe in much tighter restrictions on immigration, which caused me to a UKIP voter, but in recent months I've moved closer to a more moderate view and have returned to being a Tory.
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Sinal Ornit
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Postby Sinal Ornit » Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:58 am

NEO Rome Republic wrote:I think the immigration being positive or negative, depends on who the immigrants are, and where they come from.

Let the Germans in, keep the Arabs out. Interesting.
NEO Rome Republic wrote:I think immigrants can help in the work force, since many take jobs that citizens usually don't take.

Let them do the dirty work!
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Seaxeland
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Postby Seaxeland » Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:59 am

Immigration anywhere is usually a good thing, so long as said immigrants are actually going to respect the country they immigrate to.

Take the US for example, thousands of immigrants arriving all the time, and some of them don't even respect it. Many refuse to speak our language, try to force their culture on us, take government hand outs by the dozen, and some even intentionally come here to live criminal lifestyles. And when they're suspects in the committing of a crime, they pull the "Police Prejudice" card and claim they're being discriminated against.

You don't want that in the EU, do you? No, of course not, which is why immigration everywhere always needs strong regulation and proper control. Without it, you'd have immigrants pouring in by the millions, some even illegally.

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Glasgia
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Postby Glasgia » Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:00 am

These are not the sources you are looking for... Actually, they are. Found them!

Only four percent of "jobseeker's allowance" claimants, within the UK, are immigrants. Meanwhile, immigrants make up five percent of employment within the UK. This is a peer-reviewed scientific study on the matter. While the exact statistics may differ elsewhere, this should disprove many myths on the matter - Myths of immigrants coming simply to seek welfare or just generally putting huge strain upon the system. The vast majority of immigrants come to the EU in order to start a new life, a better life - A life that is not feasible living off welfare. Our immigrant communities are some of the, if not the, most hard working communities within this continent and that will not change whether they make up one in eight or one in twenty of the population.

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Last edited by Glasgia on Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Imperializt Russia
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:00 am

Glasgia wrote:
Imperializt Russia wrote:Because walling countries and ethnicities apart is so good for things and doesn't have poor historical precedents.


Shit, meant to say positive....

I was gonna say, it seemed a very odd position for a person who identifies as "socialist".
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Indira
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Postby Indira » Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:01 am

Generally...positive in the right amounts and when it's handled correctly. Of course, the difficult question is, how much is the right amount?

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Sinal Ornit
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Postby Sinal Ornit » Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:01 am

Seaxeland wrote:You don't want that in the EU, do you? -snip-
Without it, you'd have immigrants pouring in by the millions, some even illegally.

Yeah, it's really hard to imagine millions of people migrating to europe, don't see that happening anytime soon.
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Islamic Commune
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Postby Islamic Commune » Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:02 am

Whether it is positive of negative really depends on which way you look at it, and exactly who is migrating to your country, no?

Economically, it is a bonus I think, because you get more people available to do jobs that people do not want to do, as others have said. But then there's a dilemma; if immigrants work, some people say that they are taking their jobs and harming the citizens. If immigrants do not work, some people say that they are leeching off of the government and also harming the citizens.

Culturally, it should be okay, as long as the culture of the immigrants are similar to the culture of the host peoples, and this is what the whole immigration problem is about in the EU. The inclusion of specific immigrants caused what can be called a culture clash, and that is bound to be a problem.

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Leningrad Union
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Postby Leningrad Union » Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:02 am

Seaxeland wrote:Immigration anywhere is usually a good thing, so long as said immigrants are actually going to respect the country they immigrate to.

100% true. A lot of people don't learn Swedish when they come to Sweden and on some occasions it is considered "racist" to be patriotic Swede which is terrible.
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