Facebook allows nonbinary gender identities

[Ifreann]

You're the only one saying gender is a biological construct. Gender is a concept. Species is something that physically exists. You really don't see the difference between a concept and something physical?[/quote

I derped there. Meant to say social instead of biological, and the answer is no. I can't see why species is something that physically exists when gender isn't.

Look at a dog. Then look at me. Now look at that dog again.

See?

No, no, no. When we identify a species, we don't use things like their appearance. We use their thoughts and feelings about that aspect of their own identity. Taxonomists can speak with all life forms, you see.

[Ayreonia]

Look at a dog. Then look at me. Now look at that dog again.

See?

No. There is no dog here

This is a dog.

Look at that, then look down on yourself. Check in a mirror if you need to. See the difference? Yeah, species is pretty physical.

Now look at a cis man and a pre-op FtM. No difference.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Are you going to explain how gender physically exists?

That wasn't my point. I just... sincerely don't get it.

Then do some research. Talk to people on here about their experiences. Develop some intellectual honesty. You don't understand. Look for knowledge and rectify the gap rather than just saying "nope" and getting relentlessly flattened by those who do "get it".

[Paradystopia]

Personally, I'm for cutting those 56 down a bit.

To just one; 'Why does it fucking matter?'

Or maybe just a preferred pronoun option.

I couldn't care less whether you identify as female, male, two-spirits or pan-dimensional hypercube as I see it as no-one's business but the individual's themselves. People should be judged on what they do and how they act as an individual and any form of demographic categorisation is counterproductive to this by being a breeding ground for stereotypes and prejudices.

Just my view anyway.

[DrakoLand]

That wasn't my point. I just... sincerely don't get it.

Then do some research. Talk to people on here about their experiences. Develop some intellectual honesty. You don't understand. Look for knowledge and rectify the gap rather than just saying "nope" and getting relentlessly flattened by those who do "get it".

Only reason I posted here is for people to explain it to me. Instead of an explenation I got reported for trolling.

[Luveria]

Are you going to explain how gender physically exists?

That wasn't my point. I just... sincerely don't get it.

You said;

I can't see why species is something that physically exists when gender isn't.

Here are two species.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_wolf

Those physically exist.

Gender in comparison is a social construct which is a concept people identify with. As such, gender isn't physical and cannot be physically viewed. There is no way to physically view a person's gender. The closest connection gender has with any physicality is that a person's brain will influence what gender they identify as in the same way it influences which colour is a person's favourite.

A species exists in physicality. Gender does not.

[Ifreann]

Personally, I'm for cutting those 56 down a bit.

To just one; 'Why does it fucking matter?'

Or maybe just a preferred pronoun option.

I couldn't care less whether you identify as female, male, two-spirits or pan-dimensional hypercube as I see it as no-one's business but the individual's themselves. People should be judged on what they do and how they act as an individual and any form of demographic categorisation is counterproductive to this by being a breeding ground for stereotypes and prejudices.

Just my view anyway.

You don't use Facebook, do you?

[Transhuman Proteus]

That wasn't my point. I just... sincerely don't get it.

You said;

I can't see why species is something that physically exists when gender isn't.

Here are two species.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_wolf

Those physically exist.

Gender in comparison is a social construct which is a concept people identify with. As such, gender isn't physical and cannot be physically viewed. There is no way to physically view a person's gender. The closest connection gender has with any physicality is that a person's brain will influence what gender they identify as in the same way it influences which colour is a person's favourite.

A species exists in physicality. Gender does not.

Well said.

[DrakoLand]

That wasn't my point. I just... sincerely don't get it.

You said;

I can't see why species is something that physically exists when gender isn't.

Here are two species.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_wolf

Those physically exist.

Gender in comparison is a social construct which is a concept people identify with. As such, gender isn't physical and cannot be physically viewed. There is no way to physically view a person's gender. The closest connection gender has with any physicality is that a person's brain will influence what gender they identify as in the same way it influences which colour is a person's favourite.

A species exists in physicality. Gender does not.

So gender is purely what an individual CHOOSES (I emphasise that word for a reason) to identify as?

[Dumb Ideologies]

Then do some research. Talk to people on here about their experiences. Develop some intellectual honesty. You don't understand. Look for knowledge and rectify the gap rather than just saying "nope" and getting relentlessly flattened by those who do "get it".

Only reason I posted here is for people to explain it to me. Instead of an explenation I got reported for trolling.

No offence, but "If you're trans I'm a wolf" doesn't read much like the intellectual curiosity of the open-minded.

[Zottistan]

Then do some research. Talk to people on here about their experiences. Develop some intellectual honesty. You don't understand. Look for knowledge and rectify the gap rather than just saying "nope" and getting relentlessly flattened by those who do "get it".

Only reason I posted here is for people to explain it to me. Instead of an explenation I got reported for trolling.

This may be of assistance.

[Ifreann]

Then do some research. Talk to people on here about their experiences. Develop some intellectual honesty. You don't understand. Look for knowledge and rectify the gap rather than just saying "nope" and getting relentlessly flattened by those who do "get it".

Only reason I posted here is for people to explain it to me. Instead of an explenation I got reported for trolling.

People not taking your obvious bullshit seriously is the worst kind of oppression.

[Torisakia]

Yay? I assume this is a good thing.

[Luveria]

You said;



Here are two species.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_wolf

Those physically exist.

Gender in comparison is a social construct which is a concept people identify with. As such, gender isn't physical and cannot be physically viewed. There is no way to physically view a person's gender. The closest connection gender has with any physicality is that a person's brain will influence what gender they identify as in the same way it influences which colour is a person's favourite.

A species exists in physicality. Gender does not.

So gender is purely what an individual CHOOSES (I emphasise that word for a reason) to identify as?

Yes, and you're right that a person does choose their own gender, as it's ultimately only their decision.

[Transhuman Proteus]

You said;



Here are two species.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_wolf

Those physically exist.

Gender in comparison is a social construct which is a concept people identify with. As such, gender isn't physical and cannot be physically viewed. There is no way to physically view a person's gender. The closest connection gender has with any physicality is that a person's brain will influence what gender they identify as in the same way it influences which colour is a person's favourite.

A species exists in physicality. Gender does not.

So gender is purely what an individual CHOOSES (I emphasise that word for a reason) to identify as?

What gender do you identify as? And did you consciously "choose" it at some point?

Most people wouldn't use that word in particular - it is an aspect of us that, like our personality as a whole, develops organically over a period of our life, shaped by a number of factors. Personal choice has a role in it, but it isn't the same as saying "I've chosen to be a man today".

Gender expression on the other hand has much more conscious choice (in terms of how we dress, and the interests we involve ourselves in etc, mannerisms and behavior on the other hand are deeper set)

[DrakoLand]

So gender is purely what an individual CHOOSES (I emphasise that word for a reason) to identify as?

Yes, and you're right that a person does choose their own gender, as it's ultimately only their decision.

Finally, things make sense. I was actually expecting some "NO YOU ARE BORN WITH IT" manifest... which I guess is out there, isn't it?

[Zottistan]

So gender is purely what an individual CHOOSES (I emphasise that word for a reason) to identify as?

Yes, and you're right that a person does choose their own gender, as it's ultimately only their decision.

They choose their own gender expression. Not their identity, unless they're being really dishonest with themselves.

[DrakoLand]

So gender is purely what an individual CHOOSES (I emphasise that word for a reason) to identify as?

What gender do you identify as? And did you consciously "choose" it at some point?

Most people wouldn't use that word in particular - it is an aspect of us that, like our personality as a whole, develops organically over a period of our life, shaped by a number of factors. Personal choice has a role in it, but it isn't the same as saying "I've chosen to be a man today".

Well I have a dick, always had it ergo I am a dude. I really can't see why it's so complex for some people which is why I couldn't understand why people get so defensive with gender.

[Zottistan]

What gender do you identify as? And did you consciously "choose" it at some point?

Most people wouldn't use that word in particular - it is an aspect of us that, like our personality as a whole, develops organically over a period of our life, shaped by a number of factors. Personal choice has a role in it, but it isn't the same as saying "I've chosen to be a man today".

Well I have a dick, always had it ergo I am a dude. I really can't see why it's so complex for some people which is why I couldn't understand why people get so defensive with gender.

That's your sex, not necessarily your gender. Genitalia are irrelevant to gender.

[DrakoLand]

Well I have a dick, always had it ergo I am a dude. I really can't see why it's so complex for some people which is why I couldn't understand why people get so defensive with gender.

That's your sex, not necessarily your gender. Genitalia are irrelevant to gender.

Then I guess my gender is the same as my sex? Yeah, looks like it. Kinda shocking there are 50+ categories....

[Luveria]

Only reason I posted here is for people to explain it to me. Instead of an explenation I got reported for trolling.

This may be of assistance.

I'll point out that's specifically about transexuality, which in itself does not involve gender.

In a separate study, the team used the same technique to compare white matter in 18 male-to-female transsexual people with that in 19 males and 19 females. Surprisingly, in each transsexual person's brain the structure of the white matter in the four regions was halfway between that of the males and females (Journal of Psychiatric Research, DOI: 10.1016/j.jpsychires.2010.11.007). "Their brains are not completely masculinised and not completely feminised, but they still feel female," says Guillamon.

What can be observed is that in the case of MtFs, they have have a brain that isn't entirely masculine or feminine, but their brain requires a female body which is why the treatment is physical.

What gender do you identify as? And did you consciously "choose" it at some point?

Most people wouldn't use that word in particular - it is an aspect of us that, like our personality as a whole, develops organically over a period of our life, shaped by a number of factors. Personal choice has a role in it, but it isn't the same as saying "I've chosen to be a man today".

Well I have a dick, always had it ergo I am a dude. I really can't see why it's so complex for some people which is why I couldn't understand why people get so defensive with gender.

Because there are plenty of women who happen to have a penis. They don't like being told they aren't allowed to be women without having a vagina.

There are men like Buck Angel who would like to be treated as men even if they don't have a penis. That is why people get defensive about it, because they would like to live a certain way and many people won't respect that because they don't approve of their genitalia. The equivalent would be if people kept treating you as a girl, despite how you would rather be treated as a male.

[Zottistan]

That's your sex, not necessarily your gender. Genitalia are irrelevant to gender.

Then I guess my gender is the same as my sex? Yeah, looks like it. Kinda shocking there are 50+ categories....

That would make you a cisgendered male. In that you have male genitalia, and associate with the male gender.

Most of the categories are just different ways of putting the same thing.

[Transhuman Proteus]

What gender do you identify as? And did you consciously "choose" it at some point?

Most people wouldn't use that word in particular - it is an aspect of us that, like our personality as a whole, develops organically over a period of our life, shaped by a number of factors. Personal choice has a role in it, but it isn't the same as saying "I've chosen to be a man today".

Well I have a dick, always had it ergo I am a dude. I really can't see why it's so complex for some people which is why I couldn't understand why people get so defensive with gender.

That's your sex, not gender. Many people who fall under the transgender umbrella don't feel, or feel their identity is based on, their penis or vagina. An individual who has a penis for example, but has the gender identity of a woman. Or identifies as man and woman at the same time. Or changes between one and the other. Or is neither. Etc.

[DrakoLand]

This may be of assistance.

I'll point out that's specifically about transexuality, which in itself does not involve gender.

In a separate study, the team used the same technique to compare white matter in 18 male-to-female transsexual people with that in 19 males and 19 females. Surprisingly, in each transsexual person's brain the structure of the white matter in the four regions was halfway between that of the males and females (Journal of Psychiatric Research, DOI: 10.1016/j.jpsychires.2010.11.007). "Their brains are not completely masculinised and not completely feminised, but they still feel female," says Guillamon.

What can be observed is that in the case of MtFs, they have have a brain that isn't entirely masculine or feminine, but their brain requires a female body which is why the treatment is physical.

Well I have a dick, always had it ergo I am a dude. I really can't see why it's so complex for some people which is why I couldn't understand why people get so defensive with gender.

Because there are plenty of women who happen to have a penis. They don't like being told they aren't allowed to be women without having a vagina.

There are men like Buck Angel who would like to be treated as men even if they don't have a penis. That is why people get defensive about it, because they would like to live a certain way and many people won't respect that because they don't approve of their genitalia. The equivalent would be if people kept treating you as a girl, despite how you would rather be treated as a male.

(S)He doesn't have a penis?

[Zottistan]

This may be of assistance.

I'll point out that's specifically about transexuality, which in itself does not involve gender.

In a separate study, the team used the same technique to compare white matter in 18 male-to-female transsexual people with that in 19 males and 19 females. Surprisingly, in each transsexual person's brain the structure of the white matter in the four regions was halfway between that of the males and females (Journal of Psychiatric Research, DOI: 10.1016/j.jpsychires.2010.11.007). "Their brains are not completely masculinised and not completely feminised, but they still feel female," says Guillamon.

What can be observed is that in the case of MtFs, they have have a brain that isn't entirely masculine or feminine, but their brain requires a female body which is why the treatment is physical.

Just trying to highlight one of the main reasons the "if you're trans, I'm a wolf" comparison isn't applicable.