Should we be siding with the Soviets or the Nazis? [1935]

[Mkuki]

Impossible, the war to end all wars is behind us.

A conflict of that scale and magnitude will naver happen, again.

Hitler is rearming Germany and has expansionist intentions.

What evidence is there of that?

[Pasovo-nacoBo]

Soviets:
They are not as big of a threat to our other allies as the extremely close nazi Germany is. If we can efficiently train the Russian Million-Ken army with quality training, we can efficiently destroy Germany.

Also, the Soviet Union is having a BOOMING economy at the time, yet we are in a large depression.

War=Better Trade
Better Trade=More Money.
The key is here.

[Granadeseret]

Impossible, the war to end all wars is behind us.

A conflict of that scale and magnitude will naver happen, again.

Hitler is rearming Germany and has expansionist intentions.

As is the Soviet Union...

Also, Germany really ought to be rearming, considering its directly in the path of Soviet aggression and, to be honest, the terms of The Treaty of Versailles were far too heavy for her to be an effective member of the European community. Certainly, he has territorial demands in Europe... but are these not areas of ethnic Germans who, by all rights, ought to be part of Germany in the first place? A balance of power needs to be kept on the continent, and a stronger Germany acting as a buffer between the French and British and the Bolsheviks (WHo themselves are radical leftists with rather large claims) would prove most useful for insuring peace and stability on the European continent.

[Empire of Narnia]

Side with the great hero Joseph Stalin and remember to vote Communist in the next election!

To all the government officials present at this meeting, this one should be investigated for subversive activity post-haste. We've already run the risk of playing too closly to the Communists once before... and next time, the conspirators probably won't be so stupid as to pick Smedley Butler as their proposed leader. Fascism might work well and good for Germany and Italy, but we do not need to subvert the electoral process where said process is doing just fine in satisfying the needs of the nation.

Subversive? I am a loyal member of the Comintern I may have you know! I am by no means subversive towards the great Soviet Union or to comrade Stalin.

[Geilinor]

Hitler is rearming Germany and has expansionist intentions.

What evidence is there of that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-German_Naval_Agreement
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf

[Granadeseret]

To all the government officials present at this meeting, this one should be investigated for subversive activity post-haste. We've already run the risk of playing too closly to the Communists once before... and next time, the conspirators probably won't be so stupid as to pick Smedley Butler as their proposed leader. Fascism might work well and good for Germany and Italy, but we do not need to subvert the electoral process where said process is doing just fine in satisfying the needs of the nation.

Subversive? I am a loyal member of the Comintern I may have you know! I am by no means subversive towards the great Soviet Union or to comrade Stalin.

... perhaps your sense of direction has been grossly compromised, or you're merely to drunk on vodka to even have any clue where you are, but this sir is an American building, in The United States, and such statements of loyalty towards out-of-nation entities above The United States Government will not be accepted, nor the radical leftism which you so propose. Certainly, interventionism, at times, has redeeming qualities (That would be hard to say otherwise, considering the incredible success of Roosevelt's New Deals), but if you think America is a Communist nation, then perhaps you need to see a psychiatrist, or we can put you on the next boat to Russia and be done with you.

[Mkuki]

What evidence is there of that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-German_Naval_Agreement
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf

Voluntarily limiting the German Navy is evidence of expansionism?

I've never read Mein Kampf so I can't comment on whether it supports your claim or not.

[Aldelxane]

I personally think that the United States should wait until the future unfolds. At the moment, people are starving in the streets and using newspapers as blankets while we discuss whether we should side with communist dictators or mentally unstable fascists. First we need to fix the depression, and then we will see if the situation has changed at all by then.

[Shaggai]

Soviets. That Stalin guy is pretty bad, but if you read Mein Kampf you'll see that Hitler is literally insane. I know most people don't believe he'll do that much bad stuff, but how many of them have read his book? Hitler will probably start invading smaller neighboring countries for "Lebensraum" and start another war. I've had enough of those for one lifetime.

Impossible, the war to end all wars is behind us.

A conflict of that scale and magnitude will naver happen, again.

Not that scale and magnitude, no. But if Hitler defies the Treaty of Versailles, and then compounds matters by invading his neighbors, a smaller-scale yet still devastating war may ensue. And even if it isn't a large war, any war is too much war.

[United Marxist Nations]

Communique from Alexander Troyanovsky, Soviet Ambassador to the United States:

From the office of the General-Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union

To: The United States Dept. of Foreign Affairs (or similar agency)

The fascist government of Mr. Hitler in Germany is worrying due to its overt nationalism, and racialism. His government openly discriminates against jews, minorities, slavs, and the disabled (one of which, I'd like to remind you, is your President). Because of this, I would like to draw your attention to his philosophy of "Lebensraum", which proposes the Germanization of Poland, Eastern Europe, and the Western part of the USSR.

Surely, you realize that the only means by which Mr. Hitler would "Germanize" these areas is to either kill or forcibly remove the native populace of these areas (a number in the hundreds of millions). Furthermore, his goals are clearly in violation of the Treaty of Versailles. Therefore, your country has a responsibility to denounce the fascist government in Germany.


- J S Stalin, General-Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union.

[Mushet]

Fuck them both I say!

[Valkalan]

No thank you, I don't want to try either flavor of tyranny.

[Granadeseret]

Communique from Alexander Troyanovsky, Soviet Ambassador to the United States:

From the office of the General-Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union

To: The United States Dept. of Foreign Affairs (or similar agency)

The fascist government of Mr. Hitler in Germany is worrying due to its overt nationalism, and racialism. His government openly discriminates against jews, minorities, slavs, and the disabled (one of which, I'd like to remind you, is your President). Because of this, I would like to draw your attention to his philosophy of "Lebensraum", which proposes the Germanization of Poland, Eastern Europe, and the Western part of the USSR.

Surely, you realize that the only means by which Mr. Hitler would "Germanize" these areas is to either kill or forcibly remove the native populace of these areas (a number in the hundreds of millions). Furthermore, his goals are clearly in violation of the Treaty of Versailles. Therefore, your country has a responsibility to denounce the fascist government in Germany.


- J S Stalin, General-Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union.

Mr. Troyanovsky, and all relevant members of Ministry of External Relations


Please direct your attention to your own radical policies before you criticize the government of the Germans, and recall that our recognition of you is a matter of fact, of not desires. Your forced collectivization of farming, massive arrest and killing of political dissidents, and famines instigated by your state-operated distribution system directed at the Ukrainian ethnics in your nation, as well as your unjustified invasion of Ukraine, Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, and the various autonomous regions of Centrel Asia following the Russian Civil War against all principals of self-determination do no help in establishing your nation as a paragon of virtue. Last I checked, your nation also discriminates against the religious, the intellectual, and various other groups that do not fit into your ideal "proletariat"

The German Nation has reason to request changes to the terms of Versailles; the treaty, by any American terms, was unjust and against the principals modern, non-imperial nations ought to stand for. As such, it is out duty to help guide Europe to address German concerns, so as war can be avoided and the claims and rights of all nations respected; unlike the classical European chaos which was The Great War. Though his policy is worrisome, it is no more worrisome then your own, and I would suggest before you point the finger at the Germans or expect aid from the American government, you tone down your rhetoric towards us.

[The Two Jerseys]

This whole Communism idea is lunacy. What's the incentive for you to work hard when the government is only going to take what you earn and give it away? And with the Reds planting bombs and stirring up trouble over here, I just don't trust them.

This Hitler guy has some pretty good ideas, though the way he's setting himself up reminds me of the Mexican "presidents" during the revolution. But I'm not really worried about him, it's not like Germany would want a war after what happened the last time.

[Corenea]

I saw we should ignore both the loonies of Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union and side with Poland

[The Scientific States]

If we absolutely can't remain neutral, we should side with the Soviets. Hopefully FDR makes the right decision and stays out of the war, so we don't have to side with the lesser of two evils.

[Schwabenreich]

Nothing we could do to them is worse than what they would do to each other. If they're still an issue after the inevitable conflict in the future, than thats when it will be best for us to involve ourselves.

[Ostroeuropa]

Why not attack both?
We can move in on the side of the British, defend France, push to the German border and arrange a ceasefire, leaving them to fight the soviets for a while as we resupply them a little, take our time to knockout Japan, and by the time we come back to Europe the Germans and Russki's should have worn eachother out and we can mop up the lot of them.

[The 93rd Coalition]

Should this really be in general?

Also, Soviets. Communism > Fascism.

[Divair]

Should this really be in general?

Where else would it be?

[Libertarian California]

Why not attack both?
We can move in on the side of the British, defend France, push to the German border and arrange a ceasefire, leaving them to fight the soviets for a while as we resupply them a little, take our time to knockout Japan, and by the time we come back to Europe the Germans and Russki's should have worn eachother out and we can mop up the lot of them.

I second this.

[Empire of Narnia]

Subversive? I am a loyal member of the Comintern I may have you know! I am by no means subversive towards the great Soviet Union or to comrade Stalin.

... perhaps your sense of direction has been grossly compromised, or you're merely to drunk on vodka to even have any clue where you are, but this sir is an American building, in The United States, and such statements of loyalty towards out-of-nation entities above The United States Government will not be accepted, nor the radical leftism which you so propose. Certainly, interventionism, at times, has redeeming qualities (That would be hard to say otherwise, considering the incredible success of Roosevelt's New Deals), but if you think America is a Communist nation, then perhaps you need to see a psychiatrist, or we can put you on the next boat to Russia and be done with you.

Da....I was just saying what a Soviet Communist would have said if he were here. I am loyal Armenian...ah, I mean American citizen! Nothing to see here comrades........*runs out of the building*

[Corenea]

... perhaps your sense of direction has been grossly compromised, or you're merely to drunk on vodka to even have any clue where you are, but this sir is an American building, in The United States, and such statements of loyalty towards out-of-nation entities above The United States Government will not be accepted, nor the radical leftism which you so propose. Certainly, interventionism, at times, has redeeming qualities (That would be hard to say otherwise, considering the incredible success of Roosevelt's New Deals), but if you think America is a Communist nation, then perhaps you need to see a psychiatrist, or we can put you on the next boat to Russia and be done with you.

Da....I was just saying what a Soviet Communist would have said if he were here. I am loyal Armenian...ah, I mean American citizen! Nothing to see here comrades........*runs out of the building*

"After that commie!" *ran after him*

[The Archregimancy]

Credit to Divair for the idea.

I get that nobody really likes choosing the lesser of multiple evils, but then again, as Americans we have to do that every four years. So now, looking ahead in the realm of foreign policy, we must again make a similar decision though perhaps a more difficult one.

With rising nationalism and the presence of the Nazi party in Germany, and the odd backwards attitude of the Soviet Union, European politics is becoming more and more tense. I think we all see more tension coming in the years ahead - only time will tell whether or not it is extremely violent.

As a world power even in our current economic conditions, I think we need to decide which evil we would side with if push comes to shove.

I understand that many of you are probably isolationist, but the premise of my question is that if we absolutely HAVE to, who should we have a friendlier foreign policy with in the coming decades? Germany or the Soviet Union?

Personally, I think we have to look at who each entity is a risk to. Germany is a risk to our Western allies, while the Soviets are a risk to Eastern Europe and Central Asia. We must stand by our allies and recognize the real threat. I choose the Soviets in this disgusting decision we might have to make.

But what do you all think?

Sir,

I read your recent editorial in the New York Times regarding whether to "side" with the National Socialist government of Germany or the Bolshevik Soviet regime with considerable interest.

What confuses me is that the Times seems to think that there's some sort of choice, which makes me suspect that your newspaper's entire editorial board is overrun with Reds.

Soviet Communism is antithetical to the American way of life. I remind you of what the late President Coolidge said to the American Society of Newspaper Editors in the nation's capital some 10 years back (an event which I trust your representatives attended): "After all, the chief business of the American people is business. They are profoundly concerned with buying, selling, investing and prospering in the world." Soviet Communism directly attacks this capitalistic underpinning of American society, and its rise is a direct threat to our values.

In contrast, National Socialism has performed economic miracles via a corporatist union between government and leading businesses that is not only wholly compatible with 'buying, selling, investing and prospering in the world', but which is reflected in aspects of President Roosevelt's 'New Deal'.

Furthermore, many of our friends in Britain have observed the extent to which capitalist ideals align with Herr Hitler's plans. I would draw your attention to several recent editorials in The Daily Mail which praise the "sound, commonsense, Conservative doctrine" of Herr Hitler's government, rightly urging us to ignore "a few isolated acts of violence ... which have been generalized, multiplied and exaggerated to give the impression that Nazi rule is a bloodthirsty tyranny." The only British politician who seems to seriously oppose National Socialism is Mr. Winston Churchill, an isolated has-been whom many of our British friends suspect to be dangerously unhinged.

Herr Hitler also has sound ideas about the Jews, ideas which are shared by many patriotic Americans, such as Mr. Henry Ford of Detroit. If you have not already done so, I would urge you to read Mr. Ford's four International Jew pamphlets, particularly pamphlet four, Aspects of Jewish Power in the United States. In contrast, the Bolshevik regime is riddled by the pernicious influence of international Jewry.

In any case, the so-called "choice" is clear. National Socialist Germany is more clearly aligned with our long-standing economic interests and traditions, our allies prefer the robust 'commonsense conservative' government of National Socialist Germany, and only National Socialist Germany is ready to assist us to defeat international Jewry.

Returning to Mr. Ford, it is not for nothing that Herr Hitler told the Detroit News some four years ago that he finds Mr. Ford to be an "inspiration" and wishes to implement the patriotic American capitalist ideals exemplified by Detroit's foremost car manufacturer in making his new 'volkswagen'. What better sign is there of the extent to which our mutual interests align?

That you have presented which of these emerging powers interests best align with those of the United States as a "choice" only shows the extent of the increasingly fantastic reporting to which the New York Times has become subject since moving to 1475 Broadway 30 years ago. Next you'll be trying to tell us that the Dodgers will leave Brooklyn for some second-rate Western city like Los Angeles.

Sincerely Yours,

Henry H. Morton IV
East Quogue, Long Island

[Mkuki]

I saw we should ignore both the loonies of Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union and side with Poland

Side with Poland on what?