Swiss vote to bring back immigration laws

[Free Tristania]

In any case I am English an it doesn't matter where your from, yourr entitled to your opinion..but it clearly shows that the Swiss have had enough of free immigration and the fact that Europe are bullying them to ignore their own peoples vote. Going behind the swiss's back an threatening to pull trade is cowardly an childish. Switzerland has issued a warning not just to Britain but the world. The people of Britain and Switzerland are fed up with the dictatorial EU that adopts the policy of their way or the highway. Britain and Switzerland are examples of strong willed nations against the EU, we urge the rest of the European nations to join us. The WU are responsible for the destruction of Greece and the Ukraine. Be warned.

Hear hear !

[Risottia]

Fuck yeah! Finally we can reinstate the systematic checks at the Italian-Swiss borders and get all those bloody tax evaders who carry cash and gold into the Swiss banks!

From that POV, this doesn't sound like such a terrible idea.

That being said, I'm surprised it passed by such a small margin. I expected the Swiss to be far more isolationistic.

I just hope the EU drops all free-whatever-agreements with Switzerland and makes them and their products pay huge fees whenever they pass through EU territory or EU airspace.
A quota on visas for the Swiss people in Europe should also be implemented. Let's say no more than 200k transits per year and no more than 20k Swiss residents in EU territory.

[Risottia]

The people of Britain and Switzerland are fed up with the dictatorial EU

Then you Britons should do just like the Swiss and stay out of the EU.
We don't need whiners.

[Divair]

In any case I am English an it doesn't matter where your from, yourr entitled to your opinion..but it clearly shows that the Swiss have had enough of free immigration and the fact that Europe are bullying them to ignore their own peoples vote. Going behind the swiss's back an threatening to pull trade is cowardly an childish. Switzerland has issued a warning not just to Britain but the world. The people of Britain and Switzerland are fed up with the dictatorial EU that adopts the policy of their way or the highway. Britain and Switzerland are examples of strong willed nations against the EU, we urge the rest of the European nations to join us. The WU are responsible for the destruction of Greece and the Ukraine. Be warned.

Nah.

[Free Tristania]

From that POV, this doesn't sound like such a terrible idea.

That being said, I'm surprised it passed by such a small margin. I expected the Swiss to be far more isolationistic.

I just hope the EU drops all free-whatever-agreements with Switzerland and makes them and their products pay huge fees whenever they pass through EU territory or EU airspace.
A quota on visas for the Swiss people in Europe should also be implemented. Let's say no more than 200k transits per year and no more than 20k Swiss residents in EU territory.

They don't dare to do that. Switzerland could publish names of EU officials with large sums of money there and the press will love it. Which will mean heads rolling in the streets.

[Free Tristania]

The people of Britain and Switzerland are fed up with the dictatorial EU

Then you Britons should do just like the Swiss and stay out of the EU.
We don't need whiners.

We should go too. Good luck, Italy. Don't forget to pay us back for all the economic assistance.

[Divair]

From that POV, this doesn't sound like such a terrible idea.

That being said, I'm surprised it passed by such a small margin. I expected the Swiss to be far more isolationistic.

I just hope the EU drops all free-whatever-agreements with Switzerland and makes them and their products pay huge fees whenever they pass through EU territory or EU airspace.
A quota on visas for the Swiss people in Europe should also be implemented. Let's say no more than 200k transits per year and no more than 20k Swiss residents in EU territory.

As long as Switzerland stays in Schengen.

<3 Schengen.

[Agritum]

From that POV, this doesn't sound like such a terrible idea.

That being said, I'm surprised it passed by such a small margin. I expected the Swiss to be far more isolationistic.

I just hope the EU drops all free-whatever-agreements with Switzerland and makes them and their products pay huge fees whenever they pass through EU territory or EU airspace.
A quota on visas for the Swiss people in Europe should also be implemented. Let's say no more than 200k transits per year and no more than 20k Swiss residents in EU territory.

Personally, I hope we manage to get back the money stolen by tax evaders...

[Divair]

I just hope the EU drops all free-whatever-agreements with Switzerland and makes them and their products pay huge fees whenever they pass through EU territory or EU airspace.
A quota on visas for the Swiss people in Europe should also be implemented. Let's say no more than 200k transits per year and no more than 20k Swiss residents in EU territory.

Personally, I hope we manage to get back the money stolen by tax evaders...

They've been working on it.
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_ME ... 096_en.htm
Fairly successfully.

[Pilotto]

Ask the average American how much he knows about other countries and how many languages he speaks. Enough proof.

Ah, spoken like a man who has never been to the states. The average American knows much more about the world than you seem to think.

[The Nihilistic view]

I just said "that " clause, i.e the one about immigration has. That depend's on the EU, but given the EU's penchant for wanton expansion at any price and it's love of exerting power over people the chances it will use the Guillotine clause is almost nihil. My prediction is plenty of saber rattling from Brussels and then it will be quietly forgotten about by those in Brussels as they don't want the Swiss to leave completely and shoving them out would embolden the Anti-EU camp.

Right, so no treaties has been invalidated thus far. Contrary to your previous claim.

I don't now what news site you have been reading but every single one I have read mentions that the vote invalidates that agreement on free movement.

[Arkinesia]

Neoliberalism has almost no foothold in Europe outside of “conservative” parties. European nations are almost exclusively social-democratic, with the exception of, say, Poland, which is close to neoliberalism but lacks an adequate social safety net to be neoliberal.

When was the last time you checked ? 1980 ? Ask the Germans about Hartz IV, ask the British. Ask the Dutch. Ask the Greeks and the Spanish who are rioting and starving in the streets.

Germany is democratic socialist, the UK the same, the Dutch are almost fully socialist, and Greece and Spain were fully socialist prior to the economic crisis (and indeed, that socialism was the reason they were hit so hard by it).

Ask the average American how much he knows about other countries and how many languages he speaks. Enough proof.

Speak three fluently at present (including English, which is my native), working on number four on my own time, and hopefully after that I will add at least two more (I'd like to add a Nordic and Korean at least).

So you might say I'm not exactly an average American.

[Arkinesia]

Ask the average American how much he knows about other countries and how many languages he speaks. Enough proof.

Ah, spoken like a man who has never been to the states. The average American knows much more about the world than you seem to think.

No, they don't. The average American knows even less about the world than most Europeans think.

That's a scary thought, but it's true. That said, the US and Europeans share a completely irrational phobia of Muslims that I simply can't explain.

[The Nihilistic view]

I would read up on the Nordic Model if I were you and then come back. Some information about Switzerland because there is no Prussian sector. Switzerland is a country landlocked between Germany, Austria, Italy, Liechtenstein and France. They speak four languages and are divided into cantons with a system not too dissimilar from the American federal way.

Another note: most of the country is mountainous. Conclusion: space is limited. What good do migrant workers do ? Nothing. Not in labour (they lower wages), not in safety (crime rise), not in the population (the country is overpopulated as it is). Clearly you were unaware of that.

Read-up complete.

I have concluded you're even worse at supporting the Nordic model than I originally thought. Opposition to immigration does not indicate a great deal of support for “low barriers to free trade” and “economic openness” (listed as major facets of Nordic social democracy, as it's more formally referred to, by this source), and an outspoken distaste for the state is not a good indicator of supporting “statist individualism.”

I'm not sure why you're insulting my level of education here, at least I know what the fuck I'm talking about when I discuss neoliberalism with people. I'm not convinced you understand the Nordic model that you propagate so strongly here.

What does free trade have to do with people via immigration? Unless your a 19th century plantation owner.

[Arkinesia]

Read-up complete.

I have concluded you're even worse at supporting the Nordic model than I originally thought. Opposition to immigration does not indicate a great deal of support for “low barriers to free trade” and “economic openness” (listed as major facets of Nordic social democracy, as it's more formally referred to, by this source), and an outspoken distaste for the state is not a good indicator of supporting “statist individualism.”

I'm not sure why you're insulting my level of education here, at least I know what the fuck I'm talking about when I discuss neoliberalism with people. I'm not convinced you understand the Nordic model that you propagate so strongly here.

What does free trade have to do with people? Unless your a 19th century plantation owner.

The relationship between free trade and free immigration is a lot closer than you think.

[L Ron Cupboard]

What does free trade have to do with people via immigration? Unless your a 19th century plantation owner.

Freedom of movement is an essential part of free trade.

[The Nihilistic view]

What does free trade have to do with people? Unless your a 19th century plantation owner.

The relationship between free trade and free immigration is a lot closer than you think.

Not really, free trade is simply the absence of tariff's on the import and export of good's between two or more nation's. Now unless your importing or exporting slaves what has that got to do with the free movement of people?

[Arkinesia]

The relationship between free trade and free immigration is a lot closer than you think.

Not really, free trade is simply the absence of tariff's on the import and export of good's between two or more nation's. Now unless your importing or exporting slaves what has that got to do with the free movement of people?

Free movement of goods and free movement of people are interrelated.

It's general cross-border economic freedom, how could they not be related?

[Neu Leonstein]

We should go too. Good luck, Italy. Don't forget to pay us back for all the economic assistance.

Oh wow. Italy pays far more than Britain, in euros, per capita and as percent of GDP. I mean, you've got the whole internet to look up these things, can you just not be bothered to do the research? Or is there another reason?

[L Ron Cupboard]

We should go too. Good luck, Italy. Don't forget to pay us back for all the economic assistance.

Oh wow. Italy pays far more than Britain, in euros, per capita and as percent of GDP. I mean, you've got the whole internet to look up these things, can you just not be bothered to do the research? Or is there another reason?

Sadly British Eurosceptics don't seem to be interested in facts.

[The Nihilistic view]

Not really, free trade is simply the absence of tariff's on the import and export of good's between two or more nation's. Now unless your importing or exporting slaves what has that got to do with the free movement of people?

Free movement of goods and free movement of people are interrelated.

It's general cross-border economic freedom, how could they not be related?

If it's so interrelated how did the British Empire manage to practice free trade for centuries with both it's colonies, dominions and later the commonwealth before EU membership and did not in anyway have universal free movement of people during much of that time? In fact the only period close to that was the 15 or so years after WW2 due to a dire need for labour to rebuild Britain. Once that was done, most controls were put back in place.

Your argument seem's to mainly consist of circular logic and assertion's without any evidence.

[Arkinesia]

Free movement of goods and free movement of people are interrelated.

It's general cross-border economic freedom, how could they not be related?

If it's so interrelated how did the British Empire manage to practice free trade for centuries with both it's colonies, dominions and later the commonwealth before EU membership and did not in anyway have universal free movement of people during much of that time? In fact the only period close to that was the 15 or so years after WW2 due to a dire need for labour to rebuild Britain. Once that was done, most controls were put back in place.

Your argument seem's to mainly consist of circular logic and assertion's without any evidence.

Uh, that's not free trade, since colonies and commonwealths are not foreign territories, those are domestic territories held by the colonial power.

[The Nihilistic view]

Oh wow. Italy pays far more than Britain, in euros, per capita and as percent of GDP. I mean, you've got the whole internet to look up these things, can you just not be bothered to do the research? Or is there another reason?

Sadly British Eurosceptics don't seem to be interested in facts.

Oh I am, Italy normally pay's around £7-800 million of our rebate. *smug look*

Though of course we are still net contributor's *cries*

[The Nihilistic view]

If it's so interrelated how did the British Empire manage to practice free trade for centuries with both it's colonies, dominions and later the commonwealth before EU membership and did not in anyway have universal free movement of people during much of that time? In fact the only period close to that was the 15 or so years after WW2 due to a dire need for labour to rebuild Britain. Once that was done, most controls were put back in place.

Your argument seem's to mainly consist of circular logic and assertion's without any evidence.

Uh, that's not free trade, since colonies and commonwealths are not foreign territories, those are domestic territories held by the colonial power.

You do know that a tariff is not exclusive to national boarder's right? Most other powers had Tarrif's on good's from colonies. Secondly the commonwealth is not a nation but a volentary club of nation's. Also you conveniently have forgotten about the dominions.

Colonies are not domestic territories, if they were domestic they would not be a colony they would be an integral part of in this case Britain. Not administered as a devolved colony, which is what happened. Most colonies were administrated as separate countries by Britain. That's why in countries that are still a monarchy it has always been the Queen or her representative that has done all the official state stuff not the PM of the day or a representative of him. Having the same head of state does not have to equal being part of the same country.

[Arkinesia]

Uh, that's not free trade, since colonies and commonwealths are not foreign territories, those are domestic territories held by the colonial power.

You do know that a tariff is not exclusive to national boarder's right? Most other powers had Tarrif's on good's from colonies. Secondly the commonwealth is not a nation but a volentary club of nation's. Also you conveniently have forgotten about the dominions.

Colonies are not domestic territories, if they were domestic they would not be a colony they would be an integral part of in this case Britain. Not administered as a devolved colony, which is what happened. Most colonies were administrated as separate countries by Britain. That's why in countries that are still a monarchy it has always been the Queen or her representative that has done all the official state stuff not the PM of the day or a representative of him. Having the same head of state does not have to equal being part of the same country.

…apparently, none of this even matters, because according to my research, Britain had free trade and immigration with its colonies and overseas holdings. It was an informal system, but it was free trade nonetheless.