Swiss vote to bring back immigration laws

[Ayreonia]

Good old Switzerland, forever afraid of Europe's imperialist expansionism.

Have fun with your upcoming economic crisis, I guess.

[The Nihilistic view]

Which is what they have just voted to get rid of. The vote invalidates that bilateral agreement. So there is not such a right now.

The End.

I was addressing the assertion "there is no such thing as a freedom of movement", clearly there was because it is in the original agreement the Swiss made.

There is no freedom of movement now is there. Hence the assertion is correct as it's made in the present tense.

[The Nihilistic view]

Good old Switzerland, forever afraid of Europe's imperialist expansionism.

Have fun with your upcoming economic crisis, I guess.

Oh the Irony.

[L Ron Cupboard]

I was addressing the assertion "there is no such thing as a freedom of movement", clearly there was because it is in the original agreement the Swiss made.

There is no freedom of movement now is there. Hence the assertion is correct as it's made in the present tense.

Sorry, I thought we were being sensible.

[Ayreonia]

Good old Switzerland, forever afraid of Europe's imperialist expansionism.

Have fun with your upcoming economic crisis, I guess.

Oh the Irony.

There's none of that which I can see here.

[Nervium]

Well, it's about time we stop buying their "cheese" and cuckoo clocks.

That'll crash their economy in no time.

[Free Tristania]

Good old Switzerland, forever afraid of Europe's imperialist expansionism.

Have fun with your upcoming economic crisis, I guess.

I can so smell the bullshit here. They had no economic crisis before Schengen either. There was no economic crisis in Switzerland during WWII eventhough they were surrounded by potentially hostile countries. Sorry but your left-wing pipe dream will not come true.

[Free Tristania]

Sounds about right: I am the kind that does believe in a welfare state and universal healthcare for citizens though but that's perhaps more a bit nationalistic. We are one country, one people and if one us falls we all fall. . And the socialists can go to hell.

Weren't you the "there's no such thing as free lunch" guy just a few moments before, regarding foreign aid?

Oh, well, I guess that it's okay when money doesn't go to brown people.

Wrong again. I want our money to go to our people and our people means "those who are citizens". Take a good look at the Dutch football team: not all of them are white, eh ? But all of them are citizens.

[The Nihilistic view]

Weren't you the "there's no such thing as free lunch" guy just a few moments before, regarding foreign aid?

Oh, well, I guess that it's okay when money doesn't go to brown people.

Wrong again. I want our money to go to our people and our people means "those who are citizens". Take a good look at the Dutch football team: not all of them are white, eh ? But all of them are citizens.

I think asserting that Brown people don't live in Europe is racist actually don't you.

[Agritum]

Good old Switzerland, forever afraid of Europe's imperialist expansionism.

Have fun with your upcoming economic crisis, I guess.

I can so smell the bullshit here. They had no economic crisis before Schengen either. There was no economic crisis in Switzerland during WWII eventhough they were surrounded by potentially hostile countries. Sorry but your left-wing pipe dream will not come true.

Switzerland during WWII basically lived on the gold of refugees and, later, Nazis. And selling arms to the warring nations.

That said, currently their exports are very dependent on the European common market. Either they churn out some new free trade deals with Bruxelles, or they lose a large part of their trade income.

[Gravlen]

Are you claiming that all of Bilaterals I has been invalidated? That's going to lead to interesting times for Switzerland.

Are you claiming strawman?

No, I'm looking at the bigger picture and the effect of the Guillotine Clauses.

[The Nihilistic view]

Oh the Irony.

There's none of that which I can see here.

Even more delicious.

[Agritum]

Wrong again. I want our money to go to our people and our people means "those who are citizens". Take a good look at the Dutch football team: not all of them are white, eh ? But all of them are citizens.

I think asserting that Brown people don't live in Europe is racist actually don't you.

Where did I?

[Nervium]

Weren't you the "there's no such thing as free lunch" guy just a few moments before, regarding foreign aid?

Oh, well, I guess that it's okay when money doesn't go to brown people.

Wrong again. I want our money to go to our people and our people means "those who are citizens". Take a good look at the Dutch football team: not all of them are white, eh ? But all of them are citizens.

So you're saying that... Non-whites can't be citizens?

Or am I mistaken?

[Ayreonia]

Good old Switzerland, forever afraid of Europe's imperialist expansionism.

Have fun with your upcoming economic crisis, I guess.

I can so smell the bullshit here. They had no economic crisis before Schengen either. There was no economic crisis in Switzerland during WWII eventhough they were surrounded by potentially hostile countries. Sorry but your left-wing pipe dream will not come true.

What "left-wing pipedream," pray tell?

In case you didn't know (this was also pointed out earlier in this very thread), the vast majority of Swiss exports go to the EU. They also rely heavily on trained workforce from EU countries. You can probably tell that strict immigration laws won't do any good for their economy, but what do us left-wingers know, right?

[Gravlen]

I was addressing the assertion "there is no such thing as a freedom of movement", clearly there was because it is in the original agreement the Swiss made.

There is no freedom of movement now is there. Hence the assertion is correct as it's made in the present tense.

Actually, there is. The referendum doesn't invalidate any agreements. The cabinet and parliament has three years to introduce the restrictions.

[Agritum]

There is no freedom of movement now is there. Hence the assertion is correct as it's made in the present tense.

Actually, there is. The referendum doesn't invalidate any agreements. The cabinet and parliament has three years to introduce the restrictions.

I really don't want to be in the shoes of a cross-border worker, right now.

[Gravlen]

It'll be interesting to see how the Swiss government will handle this, especially since it's unlikely that the EU will be willing to negotiate on this without invoking the Guillotine Clause in connection with the remaining 120 bilateral agreements.

Well, the right thing to do would be to now adjust all internal distributional structures to ensure that the negative impact from EU retaliation will fall on those regions that voted for the referendum. They're basically rural folks who bought into the story the SVP was telling them (it's kinda hilarious really... farmers in the mountains voting against immigrants because of 'density stress', and city people not doing so), and they should suffer accordingly. It would be the height of unfairness of let the people in the cities subsidise rural bigotry.

I kinda feel bad for thinking you're making a persuasive argument

[Free Tristania]

I can so smell the bullshit here. They had no economic crisis before Schengen either. There was no economic crisis in Switzerland during WWII eventhough they were surrounded by potentially hostile countries. Sorry but your left-wing pipe dream will not come true.

What "left-wing pipedream," pray tell?

In case you didn't know (this was also pointed out earlier in this very thread), the vast majority of Swiss exports go to the EU. They also rely heavily on trained workforce from EU countries. You can probably tell that strict immigration laws won't do any good for their economy, but what do us left-wingers know, right?

Very little. The Swiss will continue to export and have their cross-border workers and the EU will continue to be as useless as ever and will be even more irrelevant after the coming elections.

[Divair]

There is no freedom of movement now is there. Hence the assertion is correct as it's made in the present tense.

Actually, there is. The referendum doesn't invalidate any agreements. The cabinet and parliament has three years to introduce the restrictions.

Hopefully they can do so without invalidating Schengen. I rather like being able to travel through Switzerland without having to deal with border control.

[The Nihilistic view]

Are you claiming strawman?

No, I'm looking at the bigger picture and the effect of the Guillotine Clauses.

I just said "that " clause, i.e the one about immigration has. That depend's on the EU, but given the EU's penchant for wanton expansion at any price and it's love of exerting power over people the chances it will use the Guillotine clause is almost nihil. My prediction is plenty of saber rattling from Brussels and then it will be quietly forgotten about by those in Brussels as they don't want the Swiss to leave completely and shoving them out would embolden the Anti-EU camp.

[Thesan]

*le snip*

[Gravlen]

No, I'm looking at the bigger picture and the effect of the Guillotine Clauses.

I just said "that " clause, i.e the one about immigration has. That depend's on the EU, but given the EU's penchant for wanton expansion at any price and it's love of exerting power over people the chances it will use the Guillotine clause is almost nihil. My prediction is plenty of saber rattling from Brussels and then it will be quietly forgotten about by those in Brussels as they don't want the Swiss to leave completely and shoving them out would embolden the Anti-EU camp.

Right, so no treaties has been invalidated thus far. Contrary to your previous claim.

[Arkinesia]

Immigration restrictions are restrictions on the right to freedom of movement, and are therefore a moral wrong.

The end.

There is no such thing as a freedom of movement. Switzerland is independent and therefore not subject to EU decrees.

The End.

I'm not speaking of just laws, I'm speaking of general good governance, in which the people of Switzerland clearly have no interest.

But as already mentioned earlier in the discussion, Switzerland is bound by bilateral treaty to grant freedom of movement, so you're wrong anyway.

Good old Switzerland, forever afraid of Europe's imperialist expansionism.

Have fun with your upcoming economic crisis, I guess.

I can so smell the bullshit here. They had no economic crisis before Schengen either. There was no economic crisis in Switzerland during WWII eventhough they were surrounded by potentially hostile countries. Sorry but your left-wing pipe dream will not come true.

“Left-wing pipe dream”? Lol. Immigration freedom has been supported by, among others, Milton Friedman and Jeffrey Sachs, who are decidedly right-wing and centrist, respectively. Not to mention two of the greatest economists in history.

[Free Tristania]

There is no such thing as a freedom of movement. Switzerland is independent and therefore not subject to EU decrees.

The End.

I'm not speaking of just laws, I'm speaking of general good governance, in which the people of Switzerland clearly have no interest.

But as already mentioned earlier in the discussion, Switzerland is bound by bilateral treaty to grant freedom of movement, so you're wrong anyway..

Bullshit on both counts. Treaties can be cancelled by the people if it does not serve their needs. That's why Switzerland is a democracy and why you're against democracy. Besides as history as shown: all your preferred socialist paradises are corrupt dictatorships. All of them. The Swiss people rule Switzerland - not a pseudocommie like you who isn't even Swiss.

“Left-wing pipe dream”? Lol. Immigration freedom has been supported by, among others, Milton Friedman and Jeffrey Sachs, who are decidedly right-wing and centrist, respectively. Not to mention two of the greatest economists in history.

They were not good economists.