Swiss vote to bring back immigration laws

[Free Tristania]

Immigration restrictions are restrictions on the right to freedom of movement, and are therefore a moral wrong.

The end.

There is no such thing as a freedom of movement. Switzerland is independent and therefore not subject to EU decrees.

The End.

[Luveria]

That does not mean there aren't complications from it.

Brussels cannot afford making more enemies.

That is why the EU should be strengthened.

[The Nihilistic view]

Brussels cannot afford making more enemies.

That is why the EU should be strengthened.

Lol, Can't afford to be making more enemies? Well now for just a limited time try this new course from IHaveNoEnermies-R-US. We teach you how to have less enemies by making more enemies!

Yes it really does work folk's, The USSR tried it and as we all know they have no enemies anymore!!!

[Luveria]

That is why the EU should be strengthened.

Lol, Can't afford to be making more enemies? Well now for just a limited time try this new course from IHaveNoEnermies-R-US. We teach you how to have less enemies by making more enemies!

Yes it really does work folk's, The USSR tried it and as we all know they have no enemies anymore!!!

What are you going on about?

[The Nihilistic view]

Lol, Can't afford to be making more enemies? Well now for just a limited time try this new course from IHaveNoEnermies-R-US. We teach you how to have less enemies by making more enemies!

Yes it really does work folk's, The USSR tried it and as we all know they have no enemies anymore!!!

What are you going on about?

Your idea that to make the EU less enemies it should be made more unlikable.

[Luveria]

What are you going on about?

Your idea that to make the EU less enemies it should be made more unlikable.

I haven't presented that idea anywhere.

[L Ron Cupboard]

About time for the EU to launch an investigation into Swiss banking and its links to money laundering, tax evasion, and organised crime.

[The Nihilistic view]

About time for the EU to launch an investigation into Swiss banking and its links to money laundering, tax evasion, and organised crime.

Except it can't because it's not an EU member. It's done the sensible thing and only signed bilateral agreement's so it can like it just has say no at anytime to anything the EU does or has done or opt out of thing's it once was part of but now does not want to be such as this last referendum. Yes the EU can do the same and pull out of any agreement's but that's how the EU should be. It should be a club of free trade, good governance and bilateral agreement's with some discussion on united foreign policy.

[Agritum]

This is the problem with Socialism. Law-enforced generosity stops being generosity.

But what do we know, of course the evil capitalist system only benefits the stinkin rich whitey who has invariably inherited all his wealth (which is impossible by the way since it couldn't have simply appeared out of nowhere and assuming it did it would've ran out someday) and is only looking to line his hungry pockets with even more zionist gold from the sweat and tears of the unsuspecting, unawoken proletariat - and never, ever, give back anything, at all, ever. Did I mention ever?

Ask Warren Buffet for example, he knows full well.

Sounds about right: I am the kind that does believe in a welfare state and universal healthcare for citizens though but that's perhaps more a bit nationalistic. We are one country, one people and if one us falls we all fall. . And the socialists can go to hell.

Weren't you the "there's no such thing as free lunch" guy just a few moments before, regarding foreign aid?

Oh, well, I guess that it's okay when money doesn't go to brown people.

[L Ron Cupboard]

About time for the EU to launch an investigation into Swiss banking and its links to money laundering, tax evasion, and organised crime.

Except it can't because it's not an EU member.

Swiss banking practices affect EU countries, so is a perfectly legitimate subject for EU scrutiny, Switzerland not being a member is irrelevant.

[Agritum]

Immigration restrictions are restrictions on the right to freedom of movement, and are therefore a moral wrong.

The end.

There is no such thing as a freedom of movement. Switzerland is independent and therefore not subject to EU decrees.

The End.

Except that Switzerland precedently signed a freedom of movement agreement with the EU. Now that the quotas are back, a legal/diplomatic clusterfuck is happening, because the Swiss apparently don't care about conflicting legislation.

[The Nihilistic view]

Except it can't because it's not an EU member.

Swiss banking practices affect EU countries, so is a perfectly legitimate subject for EU scrutiny, Switzerland not being a member is irrelevant.

They can try but when you can't go into the country and visit the banks and investigate it's 100% up to the swiss if they are allowed or not. It's totally relevant. For want of a more topical analogy if you can't visit the scene of a murder you can't investigate that murder in a way that would ever bring charges or even establish possible guilt of anyone.

[Agritum]

Except it can't because it's not an EU member.

Swiss banking practices affect EU countries, so is a perfectly legitimate subject for EU scrutiny, Switzerland not being a member is irrelevant.

Indeed. Italy recently demanded that the Swiss give back money collected by Italian tax evaders, for that matter.

[L Ron Cupboard]

Swiss banking practices affect EU countries, so is a perfectly legitimate subject for EU scrutiny, Switzerland not being a member is irrelevant.

They can try but when you can't go into the country and visit the banks and investigate it's 100% up to the swiss if they are allowed or not. It's totally relevant. For want of a more topical analogy if you can't visit the scene of a murder you can't investigate that murder in a way that would ever bring charges or even establish possible guilt of anyone.

Well I suppose if Switzerland doesn't want access to the single market anymore...

The cornerstone of EU-Swiss relations is the Free Trade Agreement of 1972.

As a consequence of the rejection of the EEA membership in 1992, Switzerland and the EU agreed on a package of seven sectoral agreements signed in 1999 (known in Switzerland as "Bilaterals I"). These include: free movement of persons, technical trade barriers, public procurement, agriculture and air and land transport. In addition, a scientific research agreement fully associated Switzerland into the EU's framework research programmes.

A further set of sectoral agreements was signed in 2004 (known as "Bilaterals II"), covering, inter alia, Switzerland's participation in Schengen and Dublin, and agreements on taxation of savings, processed agricultural products, statistics, combating fraud, participation in the EU Media Programme, the Environment Agency, and Swiss financial contributions to economic and social cohesion in the new EU Member States.

In 2010 an agreement was signed on Swiss participation in EU education, professional training and youth programmes.

In overall, around 100 bilateral agreements currently exist between the EU and Switzerland.

The on-going implementation of these agreements obliges Switzerland to take over relevant Community legislation in the covered sectors.

These bilateral agreements between the EU and Switzerland are currently managed through a structure of more than 15 joint committees.

http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countr ... itzerland/

[Neu Leonstein]

To me, the most interesting part of this (and I guess it confirms my usual suspicions) is the geographical distribution of the votes. In the cities (Zurich, Geneva, Basel, you name it), where there actually are immigrants, the referendum failed. It's out in the countryside where people voted for it. I.e. the place no foreigners go or live. Which is as it often is: the moment you actually meet a "foreigner", get to know them and stop thinking of them as some abstract other, xenophobia seems pretty effin stupid.

[Ralkovia]

Sheeple? No, most people know the truth. Why do you think anti-Islam euroskeptics are getting astonishing results in polls? Just look at Geert Wilders, top of the polls! It is just a few leftists who don't seem to realize what is happening.

We realize people are racist, ignorant, bigoted and alarmist, we just don't give a fuck about what they think or want.

So you deny democracy. Thanks.

[European Socialist Republic]

Hold on a sec... The referendum was accepted with 50.3% of the votes, but how high was the turnout? Apparently only 56%.
http://www.dw.de/swiss-voters-narrowly- ... a-17420367
In other words, the referendum was accepted by 50.3% of 56% of the electorate. So in reality, only a little more than 28% of the electorate voted in favour of this referendum.
I am not amused.

[L Ron Cupboard]

Immigration restrictions are restrictions on the right to freedom of movement, and are therefore a moral wrong.

The end.

There is no such thing as a freedom of movement. Switzerland is independent and therefore not subject to EU decrees.

The End.

The cornerstone of EU-Swiss relations is the Free Trade Agreement of 1972.

As a consequence of the rejection of the EEA membership in 1992, Switzerland and the EU agreed on a package of seven sectoral agreements signed in 1999 (known in Switzerland as "Bilaterals I"). These include: free movement of persons, technical trade barriers, public procurement, agriculture and air and land transport. In addition, a scientific research agreement fully associated Switzerland into the EU's framework research programmes.

[Gravlen]

It'll be interesting to see how the Swiss government will handle this, especially since it's unlikely that the EU will be willing to negotiate on this without invoking the Guillotine Clause in connection with the remaining 120 bilateral agreements.

[The Nihilistic view]

There is no such thing as a freedom of movement. Switzerland is independent and therefore not subject to EU decrees.

The End.

The cornerstone of EU-Swiss relations is the Free Trade Agreement of 1972.

As a consequence of the rejection of the EEA membership in 1992, Switzerland and the EU agreed on a package of seven sectoral agreements signed in 1999 (known in Switzerland as "Bilaterals I"). These include: free movement of persons, technical trade barriers, public procurement, agriculture and air and land transport. In addition, a scientific research agreement fully associated Switzerland into the EU's framework research programmes.

Which is what they have just voted to get rid of. The vote invalidates that bilateral agreement. So there is not such a right now.

The End.

[Gravlen]

Which is what they have just voted to get rid of. The vote invalidates that bilateral agreement. So there is not such a right now.

The End.

Are you claiming that all of Bilaterals I has been invalidated? That's going to lead to interesting times for Switzerland.

[European Socialist Republic]

We realize people are racist, ignorant, bigoted and alarmist, we just don't give a fuck about what they think or want.

So you deny democracy. Thanks.

Hold on a sec... The referendum was accepted with 50.3% of the votes, but how high was the turnout? Apparently only 56%.
http://www.dw.de/swiss-voters-narrowly- ... a-17420367
In other words, the referendum was accepted by 50.3% of 56% of the electorate. So in reality, only a little more than 28% of the electorate voted in favour of this referendum.
I am not amused.

28% of the electorate forcing their views on the rest of the population? Wow, how democratic!

[The Nihilistic view]

Which is what they have just voted to get rid of. The vote invalidates that bilateral agreement. So there is not such a right now.

The End.

Are you claiming that all of Bilaterals I has been invalidated? That's going to lead to interesting times for Switzerland.

Are you claiming strawman?

[Neu Leonstein]

It'll be interesting to see how the Swiss government will handle this, especially since it's unlikely that the EU will be willing to negotiate on this without invoking the Guillotine Clause in connection with the remaining 120 bilateral agreements.

Well, the right thing to do would be to now adjust all internal distributional structures to ensure that the negative impact from EU retaliation will fall on those regions that voted for the referendum. They're basically rural folks who bought into the story the SVP was telling them (it's kinda hilarious really... farmers in the mountains voting against immigrants because of 'density stress', and city people not doing so), and they should suffer accordingly. It would be the height of unfairness of let the people in the cities subsidise rural bigotry.

[L Ron Cupboard]

Which is what they have just voted to get rid of. The vote invalidates that bilateral agreement. So there is not such a right now.

The End.

I was addressing the assertion "there is no such thing as a freedom of movement", clearly there was because it is in the original agreement the Swiss made.