Swiss vote to bring back immigration laws

[Olivaero]

I actually think that thoes who do not see the suffering of their fellow humans and think holy shit we should do whatever we can to help these people are morally bankrupt.

Bollocks. So you should have to pay the additional 10 percent. I will pay my money to the Filipino national treasury by visiting the country whenever I can, going on a buying spree (without asking for too much change) and buying Filipino products when I am here: that way the people will continue to have jobs and will not become reliant on other peoples handouts. They are a proud people that don't like to sit on their arse and complain. Which is what lefties would gladly relegate them to. That, my friend, is neocolonialism: your paternalistic attitudes towards the "poor" people of the Third World that need "free money". They don't - and they don't want it either.

I'll happily pay an extra ten percent. I'd rather we take the people who come to us in too which is what this is all about. And as for your last sentence I'm not saying just give them free money I'm saying ensure they have schools and clean water and support them whilst they attend said schools.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

Nope Not at all. Here if you end up in debt and apply because of reckless spending, drug abuse or alcoholism the municipality or another institution takes over from you and puts you in a project which helps you to get rid of your debt. For the meantime, however, you are, basically, legally incompetent. Those that behave like children - should be treated as such.

Don't want that to happen ? Don't ask other people to help you with the mess that you have created and make sure you don't end up in a mess.

The average African has not created the mess that they are in horrible dictators and resource hungry colonial powers did that. They were just born in a place that is so far near the bottom it's nearly impossible to get out because the system demands that it is that way.

But of course assuming one of those African countries were a dictatorship or some sort of guerilla military junta and some pesky Western state decided to support a revolution it would instantly be labelled as a zionist plot, as usual.

[Free Tristania]

Bollocks. So you should have to pay the additional 10 percent. I will pay my money to the Filipino national treasury by visiting the country whenever I can, going on a buying spree (without asking for too much change) and buying Filipino products when I am here: that way the people will continue to have jobs and will not become reliant on other peoples handouts. They are a proud people that don't like to sit on their arse and complain. Which is what lefties would gladly relegate them to. That, my friend, is neocolonialism: your paternalistic attitudes towards the "poor" people of the Third World that need "free money". They don't - and they don't want it either.

I'll happily pay an extra ten percent. I'd rather we take the people who come to us in too which is what this is all about. And as for your last sentence I'm not saying just give them free money I'm saying ensure they have schools and clean water and support them whilst they attend said schools.

They will have to build those for themselves. It's called being independent. And perhaps they would be better off with you as the nosy, paternalistic, naive and for the most part perfectly irrelevant aid worker (it may come as a surprise to you but 45 years of foreign aid has had little to no success) there then we would be with unskilled immigrants that are as much a drain on our country as they were on their own.

[Olivaero]

The average African has not created the mess that they are in horrible dictators and resource hungry colonial powers did that. They were just born in a place that is so far near the bottom it's nearly impossible to get out because the system demands that it is that way.

Bollocks. They did that to themselves. As soon as they got their independence they started civil wars. That means that you don't know the Third World and that you don't know history either.

Your saying a 20 year old Angolan is responsible for declaring independence from Portugal and running his country into the ground? what the fuck.

[Free Tristania]

Bollocks. They did that to themselves. As soon as they got their independence they started civil wars. That means that you don't know the Third World and that you don't know history either.

Your saying a 20 year old Angolan is responsible for declaring independence from Portugal and running his country into the ground? what the fuck.

Actually. He can blame his father for that. They decided to mess things up: have a little civil war and as soon as the civil war is over and the Portuguese have another one that lasted until 2002.

[The Liberated Territories]

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26108597

Swiss voters have narrowly backed a referendum proposal to bring back strict quotas for immigration from European Union countries.

Final results showed 50.3% voted in favour. The vote invalidates the Swiss-EU agreement on freedom of movement.

Fiercely independent Switzerland is not a member of the EU, but has adopted large sections of EU policy.

Brussels said it regretted the outcome of the vote and would examine its implications.

A Yes vote of more than 50% was needed for the referendum to pass.

The BBC's Imogen Foulkes in Geneva says the vote has shown up traditional divisions, with French-speaking areas against the quotas, German-speaking regions divided, and the Italian-speaking canton of Ticino firmly in favour.

A Yes vote means Swiss ministers will have some tricky explaining to do in Brussels, our correspondent says.

So the Swiss are bringing some new restrictions back, having voted to do so in an extremely close referendum. Is this a good move by the population there? Should the EU be harsh on the matter and reconsider some of the benefits it brings to Switzerland? What does this mean for the country?

Personally, I don't think I can comment fully because I am not completely sure of Switzerland's current status and I'm not that familiar with the advantages immigration brings to the country.

More power to Switzerland, despite not personally agreeing with the concept of borders.

[Shaggai]

Your saying a 20 year old Angolan is responsible for declaring independence from Portugal and running his country into the ground? what the fuck.

Actually. He can blame his father for that. They decided to mess things up: have a little civil war and as soon as the civil war is over and the Portuguese have another one that lasted until 2002.

How many people were actually combatants in those civil wars?

[Free Tristania]

Actually. He can blame his father for that. They decided to mess things up: have a little civil war and as soon as the civil war is over and the Portuguese have another one that lasted until 2002.

How many people were actually combatants in those civil wars?

Plenty. We will never know. A majority could have stopped the fighting by forming up a national army. They didn't. They were too busy slaughtering each other to put a stop to the fighting.

[Olivaero]

I'll happily pay an extra ten percent. I'd rather we take the people who come to us in too which is what this is all about. And as for your last sentence I'm not saying just give them free money I'm saying ensure they have schools and clean water and support them whilst they attend said schools.

They will have to build those for themselves. It's called being independent. And perhaps they would be better off with you as the nosy, paternalistic, naive and for the most part perfectly irrelevant aid worker (it may come as a surprise to you but 45 years of foreign aid has had little to no success) there then we would be with unskilled immigrants that are as much a drain on our country as they were on their own.

nosy paternalistic and naive eh? Wanting to help people makes me all thoes things? Well if 45 years of Foreign aid hasn't helped maybe we should do more things, like annul their debt and make sure they have democracies and human rights plus foreign aid. But education is never a waste. Never ever ever.

[Free Tristania]

They will have to build those for themselves. It's called being independent. And perhaps they would be better off with you as the nosy, paternalistic, naive and for the most part perfectly irrelevant aid worker (it may come as a surprise to you but 45 years of foreign aid has had little to no success) there then we would be with unskilled immigrants that are as much a drain on our country as they were on their own.

nosy paternalistic and naive eh? Wanting to help people makes me all thoes things? Well if 45 years of Foreign aid hasn't helped maybe we should do more things, like annul their debt and make sure they have democracies and human rights plus foreign aid. But education is never a waste. Never ever ever.

No we shouldn't do any of that. If you make debt you will have to pay it. They are independent countries and thus responsible for their own policies. They are not children and they are not to be treated as such.

"make sure they have democracies and human rights plus foreign aid" - imperialist ! It's none of our beeswax as they are independent countries plus money does not come for free. Look up the meaning of the word independence. Hell. I will even help you:

independent

Line breaks: in|de¦pend|ent
Pronunciation: /ɪndɪˈpɛnd(ə)nt

/
adjective

1free from outside control; not subject to another’s authority:

Source: http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defin ... ndependent

Which makes you a neocolonialist and an imperialist.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

This is the problem with Socialism. Law-enforced generosity stops being generosity.

But what do we know, of course the evil capitalist system only benefits the stinkin rich whitey who has invariably inherited all his wealth (which is impossible by the way since it couldn't have simply appeared out of nowhere and assuming it did it would've ran out someday) and is only looking to line his hungry pockets with even more zionist gold from the sweat and tears of the unsuspecting, unawoken proletariat - and never, ever, give back anything, at all, ever. Did I mention ever?

Ask Warren Buffet for example, he knows full well.

[Free Tristania]

This is the problem with Socialism. Law-enforced generosity stops being generosity.

But what do we know, of course the evil capitalist system only benefits the stinkin rich whitey who has invariably inherited all his wealth (which is impossible by the way since it couldn't have simply appeared out of nowhere and assuming it did it would've ran out someday) and is only looking to line his hungry pockets with even more zionist gold from the sweat and tears of the unsuspecting, unawoken proletariat - and never, ever, give back anything, at all, ever. Did I mention ever?

Ask Warren Buffet for example, he knows full well.

Sounds about right: I am the kind that does believe in a welfare state and universal healthcare for citizens though but that's perhaps more a bit nationalistic. We are one country, one people and if one us falls we all fall. . And the socialists can go to hell.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

This is the problem with Socialism. Law-enforced generosity stops being generosity.

But what do we know, of course the evil capitalist system only benefits the stinkin rich whitey who has invariably inherited all his wealth (which is impossible by the way since it couldn't have simply appeared out of nowhere and assuming it did it would've ran out someday) and is only looking to line his hungry pockets with even more zionist gold from the sweat and tears of the unsuspecting, unawoken proletariat - and never, ever, give back anything, at all, ever. Did I mention ever?

Ask Warren Buffet for example, he knows full well.

Sounds about right: I am the kind that does believe in a welfare state and universal healthcare for citizens though but that's perhaps more a bit nationalistic. We are one country, one people. And the socialists can go to hell.

[Free Tristania]

Sounds about right: I am the kind that does believe in a welfare state and universal healthcare for citizens though but that's perhaps more a bit nationalistic. We are one country, one people. And the socialists can go to hell.

Well. You might want to look into it but the welfare state in most of Western Europe has Christian roots - not socialist. Although the reds like to claim the opposite. The facts are there: almshouses are abundant in Europe during the Middle Ages when Marx greatgreatgreatgreathreatgrandparents weren't even born yet.

[Olivaero]

nosy paternalistic and naive eh? Wanting to help people makes me all thoes things? Well if 45 years of Foreign aid hasn't helped maybe we should do more things, like annul their debt and make sure they have democracies and human rights plus foreign aid. But education is never a waste. Never ever ever.

No we shouldn't do any of that. If you make debt you will have to pay it. They are independent countries and thus responsible for their own policies. They are not children and they are not to be treated as such.

"make sure they have democracies and human rights plus foreign aid" - imperialist ! It's none of our beeswax as they are independent countries plus money does not come for free. Look up the meaning of the word independence. Hell. I will even help you:

independent

Line breaks: in|de¦pend|ent
Pronunciation: /ɪndɪˈpɛnd(ə)nt

/
adjective

1free from outside control; not subject to another’s authority:

Source: http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defin ... ndependent

Which makes you a neocolonialist and an imperialist.

Colonialism requires the exploitation of people, I want to ensure the people aren't exploited it's pretty much the exact opposite. I don't give a fuck about states or where we draw the lines or even who has authority, I care that the people that live within them have bearable and if possible happy lives.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

(Image)

Well. You might want to look into it but the welfare state in most of Western Europe has Christian roots - not socialist. Although the reds like to claim the opposite. The facts are there: almshouses are abundant in Europe during the Middle Ages when Marx greatgreatgreatgreathreatgrandparents weren't even born yet.

Whatever the origin - democracies are democracies and that is the end of it. People have power over their land and they are entitled to live as far to the left or the right as they desire. So long as this is democratically decided and democracy is retained.

What is alarming is when people question them rather wanting to see a supranational union (which said democracy is not even a part of) decide for said democracy, which I think is sad.

Switzerland, better brace yourselves, because according to *some* NSers this even warrants a full blown invasion

[The Scientific States]

Well. You might want to look into it but the welfare state in most of Western Europe has Christian roots - not socialist. Although the reds like to claim the opposite. The facts are there: almshouses are abundant in Europe during the Middle Ages when Marx greatgreatgreatgreathreatgrandparents weren't even born yet.

Does it really matter how it originated? The Welfare State is good, and that's all that matters. And all citizens should be able to receive benefits from the Welfare State.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

Well. You might want to look into it but the welfare state in most of Western Europe has Christian roots - not socialist. Although the reds like to claim the opposite. The facts are there: almshouses are abundant in Europe during the Middle Ages when Marx greatgreatgreatgreathreatgrandparents weren't even born yet.

Does it really matter how it originated? The Welfare State is good, and that's all that matters. And all citizens should be able to receive benefits from the Welfare State.

Exceptionally well supported argument. I bow to you.

EDIT: Free Tristania - shouldn't have told them, they're exhibiting all symptoms of - nevermind, a picture will do

[Free Tristania]

No we shouldn't do any of that. If you make debt you will have to pay it. They are independent countries and thus responsible for their own policies. They are not children and they are not to be treated as such.

"make sure they have democracies and human rights plus foreign aid" - imperialist ! It's none of our beeswax as they are independent countries plus money does not come for free. Look up the meaning of the word independence. Hell. I will even help you:



Source: http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defin ... ndependent

Which makes you a neocolonialist and an imperialist.

Colonialism requires the exploitation of peoples.

It doesn't. Colonialism means putting other people under foreign rule. The Marxist definition is irrelevant.

col·o·ny
noun \ˈkä-lə-nē\

: an area that is controlled by or belongs to a country and is usually far away from it

: a group of people sent by a country to live in such a colony

: a group of plants or animals living or growing in one place

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/colony


Imperialism:

im·pe·ri·al·ism
noun \im-ˈpir-ē-ə-ˌli-zəm\

: a policy or practice by which a country increases its power by gaining control over other areas of the world

: the effect that a powerful country or group of countries has in changing or influencing the way people live in other, poorer countries

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defin ... ndependent


Which makes you a colonialist and an imperialist.

[The Scientific States]

Does it really matter how it originated? The Welfare State is good, and that's all that matters. And all citizens should be able to receive benefits from the Welfare State.

Exceptionally well supported argument. I bow to you.

I thought you didn't like the Welfare State...

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

I'm so sorry for you guys, them pesky Christians beat you to it

Anyway, I'm outta here.

[Olivaero]

Colonialism requires the exploitation of peoples.

It doesn't. Colonialism means putting other people under foreign rule. The Marxist definition is irrelevant.

col·o·ny
noun \ˈkä-lə-nē\

: an area that is controlled by or belongs to a country and is usually far away from it

: a group of people sent by a country to live in such a colony

: a group of plants or animals living or growing in one place

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/colony


Imperialism:

im·pe·ri·al·ism
noun \im-ˈpir-ē-ə-ˌli-zəm\

: a policy or practice by which a country increases its power by gaining control over other areas of the world

: the effect that a powerful country or group of countries has in changing or influencing the way people live in other, poorer countries

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defin ... ndependent


Which makes you a colonialist and an imperialist.

I really don't give a fuck what you say it makes me. If it helps people it helps people. Why is that so difficult ot understand? If some one is getting locked up for being gay in Nigeria that's our problem, if some one is getting stoned in Saudi Arabia that's our problem if some one is having their family rape and murdered in Rwanda that's our problem. It's all our problem because we are all human. We have a responsibility to make sure our entire race has the opportunity to live the live's that we live and there is no two ways about it. And if we can't get everyone's lives up to that level, we should at least open our doors and take the people who make it thousands of miles to our countries in because it is the only humane thing we could possibly do.

[Free Tristania]

It doesn't. Colonialism means putting other people under foreign rule. The Marxist definition is irrelevant.



http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/colony


Imperialism:



http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defin ... ndependent


Which makes you a colonialist and an imperialist.

I really don't give a fuck what you say it makes me. If it helps people it helps people. Why is that so difficult ot understand? If some one is getting locked up for being gay in Nigeria that's our problem, if some one is getting stoned in Saudi Arabia that's our problem if some one is having their family rape and murdered in Rwanda that's our problem. It's all our problem because we are all human. We have a responsibility to make sure our entire race has the opportunity to live the live's that we live and there is no two ways about it. And if we can't get everyone's lives up to that level, we should at least open our doors and take the people who make it thousands of miles to our countries in because it is the only humane thing we could possibly do.

Why not go there to help them yourself instead of lecturing us ?

[Olivaero]

I really don't give a fuck what you say it makes me. If it helps people it helps people. Why is that so difficult ot understand? If some one is getting locked up for being gay in Nigeria that's our problem, if some one is getting stoned in Saudi Arabia that's our problem if some one is having their family rape and murdered in Rwanda that's our problem. It's all our problem because we are all human. We have a responsibility to make sure our entire race has the opportunity to live the live's that we live and there is no two ways about it. And if we can't get everyone's lives up to that level, we should at least open our doors and take the people who make it thousands of miles to our countries in because it is the only humane thing we could possibly do.

Why not go there to help them yourself instead of lecturing us ?

There's only so much I personally can do. Collective action by a state is much more powerful than any personal sacrifice I could give there fore it's much more effective for me to argue for more action from my country than it is for me to just go around doing good deeds myself. As to why I'm lecturing you it's because you are obviously in need of a lecture as to why your method of just telling third world countries to fuck off and sort their own problems out is not going to solve anything at all. And by arguing for foreign aid to be reduced actually possibly making things worse.

[God Kefka]

Why not go there to help them yourself instead of lecturing us ?

There's only so much I personally can do. Collective action by a state is much more powerful than any personal sacrifice I could give there fore it's much more effective for me to argue for more action from my country than it is for me to just go around doing good deeds myself. As to why I'm lecturing you it's because you are obviously in need of a lecture as to why your method of just telling third world countries to fuck off and sort their own problems out is not going to solve anything at all. And by arguing for foreign aid to be reduced actually possibly making things worse.

The developed world has no obligation towards Third World countries...

I'll pay taxes to help the poor in my own country, but not for people far far away...

and they did ask for independence so... they get what they ask for.

If they want help they can re-apply for colonization... but we could refuse.