NationStates

Meowfoundland wrote:

Phoenixfox wrote:Don't delude yourself...there not really such thing as marriage without God. That is why gay partners marrying is so offensive to me...it is literally shoving your sin and defiance in the face of God

Do you support banning atheists, Hindus, Buddhists etc. from getting married?

Don't give him ideas...

Utceforp wrote:

Meowfoundland wrote:Do you support banning atheists, Hindus, Buddhists etc. from getting married?

Don't give him ideas...

Great...

Good on Scotland, one of the few "progressive/liberal" things I'd like here in Texas.

Phoenixfox wrote:

Krazakistan wrote:
Care to prove him wrong without using arguments from a 2500 year old book written by men?

Gay sex results in high transmission of disease, studies have shown...more than heterosexual. Gays adopting denies the child the right to either a mother or father. Though I am more accepting of adoption than marriage for gays because I have seen the some children CAN be happy without a father or mother.

Source?

Neutraligon wrote:

Phoenixfox wrote:There is tons of evidence that knowing God is good for you Ask any believer how he has changed their life...

There is plenty of reason to believe knowing someone God is bad for you, ask any Jew who lived through the Spanish inquisition, Pogroms, and the Holocaust. Ask any one of those people how knowing God has changed their lives.

God did not do those things to them, man did in a misguided way that God disapproved of.

I was depressed and hopelessly lost for most of my life. I was angry and even almost committed suicide twice. Never even gave a thought to religion. Until I went to church with a friend when I was 19...everything became clear to me and as I came to know God, my troubles faded and I've been blessed and beautifully fulfilled and happy ever since doing god's work.

Phoenixfox wrote:

Krazakistan wrote:
Care to prove him wrong without using arguments from a 2500 year old book written by men?

Gay sex results in high transmission of disease, studies have shown...more than heterosexual. Gays adopting denies the child the right to either a mother or father. Though I am more accepting of adoption than marriage for gays because I have seen the some children CAN be happy without a father or mother.

I'd like a source for the disease claim and a reason why not having either a mother or a father is a bad thing. I'd also like to point out that even if gay sex does result in higher transmission, legalizing gay marriage isn't going to make a ton of people go off having gay sex orgies.

Oh yeah. We haven't had one of these in a while.

Has someone come up with a new, logical reason to not allow gay marriage since the last one?

No? Why am I not surprised?

I'm surprised Scotland is so late with this though.

Phoenixfox wrote:

Krazakistan wrote:
Care to prove him wrong without using arguments from a 2500 year old book written by men?

Gay sex results in high transmission of disease, studies have shown...more than heterosexual. Gays adopting denies the child the right to either a mother or father. Though I am more accepting of adoption than marriage for gays because I have seen the some children CAN be happy without a father or mother.

For the first, there is such a thing as protection. People can use it. That is not inherent in sexuality. Also, lesbian women have the lowest transmission rates. Second, studies show that while having a two parent stable household is important, the sex of those parents does not affect the health or well-being of the child.

Phoenixfox wrote:

Krazakistan wrote:
Care to prove him wrong without using arguments from a 2500 year old book written by men?

Gay sex results in high transmission of disease, studies have shown...more than heterosexual. Gays adopting denies the child the right to either a mother or father. Though I am more accepting of adoption than marriage for gays because I have seen the some children CAN be happy without a father or mother.

and what about lesbians? hmm... (it's due to anal tissues, where the same risks are the same for straight couples as for gay couples. the other incidences are accounted for by cultural factors like what happens when you push people underground rather than gay sex being bad period. if you wanted to transition to a no anal sex period position now that would at least be consistent.)

you already seem aware that banning gays from adopting children may deny them the right to a mother or father at all, which is a good step.

Krazakistan wrote:

Phoenixfox wrote:There is tons of evidence that knowing God is good for you Ask any believer how he has changed their life...

On the contrary, you can ask numerous atheists how becoming an atheist has benefited their life.

What they experience is a temporary surge of pleasure and freedom as a result of abandoning the rules God has in place for our own good. Not true happiness...can never be, even if they convince themselves otherwise.

Phoenixfox wrote:

Othelos wrote:Religion is irrelevant to the secular institution of civil marriage.

Don't delude yourself...there not really such thing as marriage without God. That is why gay partners marrying is so offensive to me...it is literally shoving your sin and defiance in the face of God

I have a legal right to sin.

There are plenty of marriages without a god. It's an option to request a government official to have the state perform a secular marriage service.

Phoenixfox wrote:

Neutraligon wrote:
There is plenty of reason to believe knowing someone God is bad for you, ask any Jew who lived through the Spanish inquisition, Pogroms, and the Holocaust. Ask any one of those people how knowing God has changed their lives.

God did not do those things to them, man did in a misguided way that God disapproved of.

I was depressed and hopelessly lost for most of my life. I was angry and even almost committed suicide twice. Never even gave a thought to religion. Until I went to church with a friend when I was 19...everything became clear to me and as I came to know God, my troubles faded and I've been blessed and beautifully fulfilled and happy ever since doing god's work.

You mean like how man is now oppressing gays in a way tat your god most likely disapproves of?

Stop getting anecdotal evidence. I could be doing the same for the opposite side. But I don't. Because I have actual material to base an argument on. And they arent stories.

Phoenixfox wrote:

Krazakistan wrote:
Care to prove him wrong without using arguments from a 2500 year old book written by men?

Gay sex results in high transmission of disease, studies have shown...more than heterosexual. Gays adopting denies the child the right to either a mother or father. Though I am more accepting of adoption than marriage for gays because I have seen the some children CAN be happy without a father or mother.

Even if these unsubstantiated claims are true, it is still none of your fucking business what consenting adults do in the privacy of their own homes.

I have seen plenty of children without mothers or fathers that do quite well.

Phoenixfox wrote:

Neutraligon wrote:
There is plenty of reason to believe knowing someone God is bad for you, ask any Jew who lived through the Spanish inquisition, Pogroms, and the Holocaust. Ask any one of those people how knowing God has changed their lives.

God did not do those things to them, man did in a misguided way that God disapproved of.

I was depressed and hopelessly lost for most of my life. I was angry and even almost committed suicide twice. Never even gave a thought to religion. Until I went to church with a friend when I was 19...everything became clear to me and as I came to know God, my troubles faded and I've been blessed and beautifully fulfilled and happy ever since doing god's work.

No, but they knew god, and as a result of that knowledge of their god, the were tortured and killed. You may find comfort, that is good for you, not everyone does.

Alyakia wrote:

Phoenixfox wrote:Gay sex results in high transmission of disease, studies have shown...more than heterosexual. Gays adopting denies the child the right to either a mother or father. Though I am more accepting of adoption than marriage for gays because I have seen the some children CAN be happy without a father or mother.

and what about lesbians? hmm... (it's due to anal tissues, where the same risks are the same for straight couples as for gay couples. the other incidences are accounted for by cultural factors like what happens when you push people underground rather than gay sex being bad period. if you wanted to transition to a no anal sex period position now that would at least be consistent.)

you already seem aware that banning gays from adopting children may deny them the right to a mother or father at all, which is a good step.

Hush. We all know anal sex is approved for lesbians and heterosexuals but anal sex carries very many risks when gays do it. Why is it only harmful when gays do it? There are no answers. Only claims never backed up with sources.

Phoenixfox wrote:

Krazakistan wrote:On the contrary, you can ask numerous atheists how becoming an atheist has benefited their life.

What they experience is a temporary surge of pleasure and freedom as a result of abandoning the rules God has in place for our own good. Not true happiness...can never be, even if they convince themselves otherwise.

Don't melt the glue holding your wings together Icarus. Might want to come down lower to earth. Do not insult me and every other person here with your high horse religious snobbery. It is pathetic.

Phoenixfox wrote:

Krazakistan wrote:
Care to prove him wrong without using arguments from a 2500 year old book written by men?

Gay sex results in high transmission of disease, studies have shown...more than heterosexual. Gays adopting denies the child the right to either a mother or father. Though I am more accepting of adoption than marriage for gays because I have seen the some children CAN be happy without a father or mother.

You realize there's a lot more to being gay besides anal sex, right? And being gay does not mean someone is into (dirty) anal. Besides, condoms and proper cleaning can do wonders for stopping the spread of STD's.

Also, the genitalia of two parents don't matter. The most important thing for a child's development is a loving and stable home.

Phoenixfox wrote:

Neutraligon wrote:
There is plenty of reason to believe knowing someone God is bad for you, ask any Jew who lived through the Spanish inquisition, Pogroms, and the Holocaust. Ask any one of those people how knowing God has changed their lives.

God did not do those things to them, man did in a misguided way that God disapproved of.

No true Scotsman fallacy.

Also, God did some things in the Bible that were pretty awful. Like, for example, committing mass genocide on a global scale and destroying not only most of human race but almost every living thing on the planet. Also known as Noah's Ark.

I was depressed and hopelessly lost for most of my life. I was angry and even almost committed suicide twice. Never even gave a thought to religion. Until I went to church with a friend when I was 19...everything became clear to me and as I came to know God, my troubles faded and I've been blessed and beautifully fulfilled and happy ever since doing god's work.

Well that's good for you, but you don't represent every human being on the planet.

Phoenixfox wrote:

Othelos wrote:Religion is irrelevant to the secular institution of civil marriage.

Don't delude yourself...there not really such thing as marriage without God. That is why gay partners marrying is so offensive to me...it is literally shoving your sin and defiance in the face of God

You are offensive to me.

Phoenixfox wrote:

Krazakistan wrote:On the contrary, you can ask numerous atheists how becoming an atheist has benefited their life.

What they experience is a temporary surge of pleasure and freedom as a result of abandoning the rules God has in place for our own good. Not true happiness...can never be, even if they convince themselves otherwise.

Source. And no the bible does not count. I have seen perfectly happy atheists.

Sibirsky wrote:

Phoenixfox wrote:Don't delude yourself...there not really such thing as marriage without God. That is why gay partners marrying is so offensive to me...it is literally shoving your sin and defiance in the face of God

You are offensive to me.

New sig quote

Phoenixfox wrote:

Krazakistan wrote:On the contrary, you can ask numerous atheists how becoming an atheist has benefited their life.

What they experience is a temporary surge of pleasure and freedom as a result of abandoning the rules God has in place for our own good. Not true happiness...can never be, even if they convince themselves otherwise.

Please, for the love of the flying spaghetti monster, do NOT try to take the high horse on this one.

Phoenixfox wrote:

Krazakistan wrote:
Care to prove him wrong without using arguments from a 2500 year old book written by men?

Gay sex results in high transmission of disease, studies have shown...more than heterosexual.

That's not quite true. Men who have sex with men do account for a large percentage of HIV/AIDS and STI infections in the United States, but that doesn't mean infections are inherent nor universal to homosexual intercourse, and the low infection rates of women who have sex with women demonstrates this.

Worldwide, however, heterosexual intercourse is still the leading form of STI and HIV/AIDS transmission.

Phoenixfox wrote:Gays adopting denies the child the right to either a mother or father. Though I am more accepting of adoption than marriage for gays because I have seen the some children CAN be happy without a father or mother.

Indeed, research suggests that children raised by same-sex couples fare just as well on average, if not better, than children raised by different-sex couples. Therefor, "denying the child the right to either a mother or a father" doesn't seem to be that much of a problem, does it?

Wisconsin9 wrote:

Phoenixfox wrote:One is a holy union in the eyes of God, one is not

Yes, but what specifically makes it holy? I mean, if all benefits from it are the same, then isn't it identical for all intents and purposes?

On a legal level, yes. Which is why I believe it is the perfect solution to our disagreement.

Krazakistan wrote:

Phoenixfox wrote:What they experience is a temporary surge of pleasure and freedom as a result of abandoning the rules God has in place for our own good. Not true happiness...can never be, even if they convince themselves otherwise.

Please, for the love of the flying spaghetti monster, do NOT try to take the high horse on this one.

It is all he has fucking done. He presumes he knows about depression, and spits on those that actually live with it, now he spits on all the non-religious by saying we are not happy, and he is.