How did the Universe come to be?

[Grave_n_idle]

Big Bang theory believers and others check this:
Science News, 23 & 31 August 1974, page 124
The Reader's Digest, September 1978, page 99
The Earth, New York, 1963, Arthur Beiser, page 10
The Holy Scriptures, Hebrews 3:4 & Songs 104:24

1. "It seems that this kind of special and accurate conditions are impossible that they happened by chance."
2. "It doesn't leave me a choice but to recognize the existence of a higher being that is responsible for the design and development of the amazing connection of mind-brain--something that is much higher than the ability of human to understand it."
3. Earth is "the miracle of the Universe, one unique sphere."
4. Find it yourself!

Still not an argument. Some people saying 'ooh, that's unlikely' is not confirmation of any scripture - unless there's a scriptural prophecy that some people will say 'ooh, that's unlikely'.

[Breadknife]

Take this example:
Would you believe that a clock just got created by itself or evolved from dust particles? When why should you believe that the Universe that's much more accurate and much larger than a clock got created by its own?

You're doing it again...

You: Foo! Checkmate Atheists!
Us: No, because this, and that and the other... How do you explain that.
You: Bar! Checkmate Atheists!
Us: No, because of a very good reason that we'll explain, and are willing to talk about. By the way, you never replied about our objections to Foo.
You Baz! Checkmate Atheists!
Us ...*sigh* No, that isn't anything to do with the argument, even. Are you still worried about Foo and Bar, BTW, because you've been a bit quiet about them...


Although in the above case, that's already been dealt with, I'm pretty sure, so maybe you just don't have a long-term memory.

[Grave_n_idle]

Quite. It's simply insane to claim we're the only life in the universe. There might be other life in this very solar system.

No, we're so unique that we express feelings like love, anger, sorrow and happiness.

Like cats?

Perhaps we should add 'unique' to the list of things you might want to read up on?

[Mavorpen]

Quite. It's simply insane to claim we're the only life in the universe. There might be other life in this very solar system.

No, we're so unique that we express feelings like love, anger, sorrow and happiness.

Who is "we"? The majority of animals?

[Divair]

Quite. It's simply insane to claim we're the only life in the universe. There might be other life in this very solar system.

No, we're so unique that we express feelings like love, anger, sorrow and happiness.

Like many other animals. How "unique".

[Grave_n_idle]

No, we're so unique that we express feelings like love, anger, sorrow and happiness.

Who is "we"? The majority of animals?

And we don't actually know what feelings alien life might experience...

[European Socialist Republic]

Quite. It's simply insane to claim we're the only life in the universe. There might be other life in this very solar system.

No, we're so unique that we express feelings like love, anger, sorrow and happiness.

Source that other life in the universe won't have the same feelings?

[Mavorpen]

Who is "we"? The majority of animals?

And we don't actually know what feelings alien life might experience...

I don't see why any social animal wouldn't evolve those traits to some degree.

[European Socialist Republic]

And we don't actually know what feelings alien life might experience...

I don't see why any social animal wouldn't evolve those traits to some degree.

Because they weren't chosen by God. *nods*

[Grave_n_idle]

I don't see why any social animal wouldn't evolve those traits to some degree.

Because they weren't chosen by God. *nods*

And we know this because there are lots of worlds, and we've explored most of one. Apparently.

[Seriong]

Take this example:
Would you believe that a clock just got created by itself or evolved from dust particles? When why should you believe that the Universe that's much more accurate and much larger than a clock got created by its own?

Watchmaker argument:
This fails, as we've observed clocks coming to be only through creation, we however have never seen nature come to be through creation, only through evolving.

[Grave_n_idle]

Take this example:
Would you believe that a clock just got created by itself or evolved from dust particles? When why should you believe that the Universe that's much more accurate and much larger than a clock got created by its own?

Watchmaker argument:
This fails, as we've observed clocks coming to be only through creation, we however have never seen nature come to be through creation, only through evolving.

It fails even harder than that, to be honest.

A river is a clock - if you can work out the rate of flow, you can work out time. It has no moving parts, and is an artifact of the simple physical principle of fluids seeking equilibrium via the path of least resistance - but it's a clock. And it required no creator.

[European Socialist Republic]

Because they weren't chosen by God. *nods*

And we know this because there are lots of worlds, and we've explored most of one. Apparently.

No, that's a silly argument. We know because a really old book tells us so!

[The Solar System Scope]

Quite. It's simply insane to claim we're the only life in the universe. There might be other life in this very solar system.

No, we're so unique that we express feelings like love, anger, sorrow and happiness.

Better argument you cannot argue with:
We're the only creatures that wonder about the meaning of life.
We're the only creatures that want to live forever and seek for it.
We're the only creatures that are religious.
We're the only creatures that try to explain stuff.

[European Socialist Republic]

No, we're so unique that we express feelings like love, anger, sorrow and happiness.

Better argument you cannot argue with:
We're the only creatures that wonder about the meaning of life.
We're the only creatures that want to live forever and seek for it.
We're the only creatures that are religious.
We're the only creatures that try to explain stuff.

Source?

[Divair]

No, we're so unique that we express feelings like love, anger, sorrow and happiness.

Better argument you cannot argue with:
We're the only creatures that wonder about the meaning of life.
We're the only creatures that want to live forever and seek for it.
We're the only creatures that are religious.
We're the only creatures that try to explain stuff.

Source.

[Seriong]

Something you can't explain.
The Bible says: read Jeremiah 33:22.
How did they know that the stars were so many?
You can only see 3 000 stars with the naked eye at best.
That equals with ONE handful of sand.

3k is a lot to the naked eye, it would seem endless. As well, I know pollution makes it more difficult, but if you go to an area without much pollution, hell yeah the stars look endless.

Welcome to a universe of big numbers. There are literally millions of planets like ours.

Well, why can't we find one then, huh?

We have found planets that could support our forms of life. It is also a false assumption to assume that we are the only potential style of life.

Big Bang theory believers and others check this:
Science News, 23 & 31 August 1974, page 124
The Reader's Digest, September 1978, page 99
The Earth, New York, 1963, Arthur Beiser, page 10
The Holy Scriptures, Hebrews 3:4 & Songs 104:24

1. "It seems that this kind of special and accurate conditions are impossible that they happened by chance."
2. "It doesn't leave me a choice but to recognize the existence of a higher being that is responsible for the design and development of the amazing connection of mind-brain--something that is much higher than the ability of human to understand it."
3. Earth is "the miracle of the Universe, one unique sphere."
4. Find it yourself!

Great, 40+ year old documents, none of them studies. This doesn't help you in the slightest.

Quite. It's simply insane to claim we're the only life in the universe. There might be other life in this very solar system.

No, we're so unique that we express feelings like love, anger, sorrow and happiness.

What? How dos that determine if something is alive?

And we don't actually know what feelings alien life might experience...

I don't see why any social animal wouldn't evolve those traits to some degree.

Well, they could have social emotions, that due to never encountering, we don't imagine.

[Seriong]

No, we're so unique that we express feelings like love, anger, sorrow and happiness.

Better argument you cannot argue with:
We're the only creatures that wonder about the meaning of life.
We're the only creatures that want to live forever and seek for it.
We're the only creatures that are religious.
We're the only creatures that try to explain stuff.

You're going to have to tell me how that's an argument, and also how you know that.

[Mavorpen]

No, we're so unique that we express feelings like love, anger, sorrow and happiness.

Better argument you cannot argue with:
We're the only creatures that wonder about the meaning of life.
We're the only creatures that want to live forever and seek for it.
We're the only creatures that are religious.
We're the only creatures that try to explain stuff.

1. Are you Dr. Dolittle?
2. Again, Dr. Dolittle?
3. That isn't an accomplishment, and again, Dr. Dolittle?
4. This one is just bullshit. When a chimpanzee uses a tool for instance, they teach other chimpanzees to do the same.

[Breadknife]

Big Bang theory believers and others check this:
Science News, 23 & 31 August 1974, page 124
The Reader's Digest, September 1978, page 99
The Earth, New York, 1963, Arthur Beiser, page 10
The Holy Scriptures, Hebrews 3:4 & Songs 104:24

Now, I know from the last time (linkless) references were thrown about, you've just grabbed those from somebody else.

1974, 1978, 1963 and... sometime BCE. Even allowing the for the possibility of an article written yesterday to be horribly wrong (well, your posts written over the last few days show that), articles based upon the scientific understanding of no less than 40 years ago (and probably much further back, thanks to selective reading) probably lack something of veracity.

Let's randomly look and see... The Reader's Digest, Sept 1978, page 99... According a picture of the front cover that I've found "Thoughts of a Brain Surgeon" starts on page 97 (brain surgeons aren't an authority on the Big Bang... sorry) then "The Swiss Connection" starts on page 101. I'm guessing the Brain Surgeon says something like "The human mind is a marvelous thing" or something.

(Incidentally, Top Google Search for "Science News, 23 & 31 August 1974" points to this thread. Nothing else that seems relevent. Please actually provide links, or else I'm going to end up being annoyed.)

[European Socialist Republic]

I've had a revelation! God MUST exist!
It can't be coincidence that a creationist's index fingers perfectly fit into his ears!

[Breadknife]

We're the only creatures that are religious.

If you ask me, that isn't a particularly advanced quality...

We're the only creatures that try to explain stuff.

Some of us do. Some just say "Look! Bible says this! Stop thinking for yourself!"

More directly, so many tool-using and/or problem-solving creatures exist (not just primates, but corvids and sciuridae and cetations and cephalopods) that quite obviously work out how things happen, and even observe others and to replicate their solutions to a problem.

They're interesting. Look them up. (Should I provide links? No, I don't think I will. Google it. Share the pain.)

[The Solar System Scope]

Most of your lives don't have a meaning.
Born, education, job, marriage perhaps, scientific breakthrough perhaps, children perhaps, theories, theories, theories, theories, old age, death. The End.

[Farnhamia]

Most of your lives don't have a meaning.
Born, education, marriage perhaps, scientific breakthrough perhaps, children perhaps, theories, theories, theories, theories, old age, death. The End.

Don't be rude. Declaring that an atheist's life has no meaning is the last refuge of someone who has been out-argued.

[Seljuq Kyiv]

Most of your lives don't have a meaning.
Born, education, job, marriage perhaps, scientific breakthrough perhaps, children perhaps, theories, theories, theories, theories, old age, death. The End.

I fail to see the relevance.