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How did the Universe come to be?

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How did the Universe come to be?

1.) The Big Bang
274
58%
2.) A Universal God
104
22%
3.) everything formed on it's own
9
2%
4.) everything was already here and has always been
24
5%
5.) other: your own theory if you have one that isn't listed
58
12%
 
Total votes : 469
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Farnhamia
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Founded: Jun 20, 2006
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Postby Farnhamia » Fri Feb 14, 2014 7:31 am

The Solar System Scope wrote:Take this example:
Would you believe that a clock just got created by itself or evolved from dust particles? When why should you believe that the Universe that's much more accurate and much larger than a clock got created by its own?

The universe isn't a mechanical device and it's had 13 billion years to reach this point. Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean God did it.
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Furious Grandmothers
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Postby Furious Grandmothers » Fri Feb 14, 2014 7:34 am

The Solar System Scope wrote:Take this example:
Would you believe that a clock just got created by itself or evolved from dust particles? When why should you believe that the Universe that's much more accurate and much larger than a clock got created by its own?

The universe is accurate? Hah.

And if you keep randomly throwing a bunch of clock parts together for long enough, very very long but long enough, you will eventually end up with a clock for sure. Basic probability.
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Seljuq Kyiv
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Posts: 3178
Founded: Oct 24, 2013
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Postby Seljuq Kyiv » Fri Feb 14, 2014 7:38 am

The Solar System Scope wrote:
Sun Wukong wrote:Welcome to a universe of big numbers. There are literally millions of planets like ours.

Well, why can't we find one then, huh?


We are as gadflies without the required technology. Give it time.
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The Solar System Scope
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Founded: Oct 13, 2013
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Postby The Solar System Scope » Fri Feb 14, 2014 7:39 am

Big Bang theory believers and others check this:
Science News, 23 & 31 August 1974, page 124
The Reader's Digest, September 1978, page 99
The Earth, New York, 1963, Arthur Beiser, page 10
The Holy Scriptures, Hebrews 3:4 & Songs 104:24
The Solar System Scope
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Grave_n_idle
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Founded: Feb 11, 2004
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Postby Grave_n_idle » Fri Feb 14, 2014 7:42 am

The Solar System Scope wrote:
Sun Wukong wrote:Welcome to a universe of big numbers. There are literally millions of planets like ours.

Well, why can't we find one then, huh?


Because space is really, really big.

Your argument that there can't be another planet supporting life, because we haven't found one yet - but the simple truth is we've yet to actually set foot on even a second world... and there are parts of the one we're already on we still haven't really explored.

You're dealing with big numbers, and big distances.
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Grave_n_idle
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Posts: 44837
Founded: Feb 11, 2004
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Postby Grave_n_idle » Fri Feb 14, 2014 7:43 am

The Solar System Scope wrote:Take this example:
Would you believe that a clock just got created by itself or evolved from dust particles? When why should you believe that the Universe that's much more accurate and much larger than a clock got created by its own?


How is the universe 'more accurate' than a clock?

Perhaps you should study some physics - the 'clockwork' of the universe is governed by some pretty basic rules.
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Divair
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Postby Divair » Fri Feb 14, 2014 7:45 am

Grave_n_idle wrote:
The Solar System Scope wrote:Well, why can't we find one then, huh?


Because space is really, really big.

Your argument that there can't be another planet supporting life, because we haven't found one yet - but the simple truth is we've yet to actually set foot on even a second world... and there are parts of the one we're already on we still haven't really explored.

You're dealing with big numbers, and big distances.

And we've found plenty of planets that are, in theory, capable of supporting life.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/05/scien ... .html?_r=0
http://www.npr.org/2013/11/05/242991030 ... -out-there
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/scien ... 73194.html
http://www.independent.ie/world-news/ga ... 26564.html
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... y/3433449/
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/11/05/tech/ ... f-planets/
http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronom ... ommon.html
http://www.theverge.com/2013/4/18/42397 ... lanets-yet
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Farnhamia
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Founded: Jun 20, 2006
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Postby Farnhamia » Fri Feb 14, 2014 7:46 am

The Solar System Scope wrote:Big Bang theory believers and others check this:
Science News, 23 & 31 August 1974, page 124
The Reader's Digest, September 1978, page 99
The Earth, New York, 1963, Arthur Beiser, page 10
The Holy Scriptures, Hebrews 3:4 & Songs 104:24

No, come on, you know better than this. Link them, please, though I doubt two Bible verses and 40+ y/o science articles are going to help your cause.
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo ... Ashmoria (Freedom ... or cake)
This is the eighth line. If your signature is longer, it's too long.
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Grave_n_idle
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Posts: 44837
Founded: Feb 11, 2004
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Grave_n_idle » Fri Feb 14, 2014 7:47 am

The Solar System Scope wrote:Big Bang theory believers and others check this:
Science News, 23 & 31 August 1974, page 124
The Reader's Digest, September 1978, page 99
The Earth, New York, 1963, Arthur Beiser, page 10
The Holy Scriptures, Hebrews 3:4 & Songs 104:24


Why?

If you think there's an argument to be made, you should make it.
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European Socialist Republic
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Postby European Socialist Republic » Fri Feb 14, 2014 7:48 am

The Solar System Scope wrote:Take this example:
Would you believe that a clock just got created by itself or evolved from dust particles? When why should you believe that the Universe that's much more accurate and much larger than a clock got created by its own?

The watchmaker argument is wrong. This site lists the reasons why.
http://www.update.uu.se/~fbendz/nogod/watchmak.htm
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The Solar System Scope
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Postby The Solar System Scope » Fri Feb 14, 2014 7:48 am

Something you can't explain.
The Bible says: read Jeremiah 33:22.
How did they know that the stars were so many?
You can only see 3 000 stars with the naked eye at best.
That equals with ONE handful of sand.
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Grave_n_idle
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Postby Grave_n_idle » Fri Feb 14, 2014 7:49 am

Divair wrote:
Grave_n_idle wrote:
Because space is really, really big.

Your argument that there can't be another planet supporting life, because we haven't found one yet - but the simple truth is we've yet to actually set foot on even a second world... and there are parts of the one we're already on we still haven't really explored.

You're dealing with big numbers, and big distances.

And we've found plenty of planets that are, in theory, capable of supporting life.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/05/scien ... .html?_r=0
http://www.npr.org/2013/11/05/242991030 ... -out-there
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/scien ... 73194.html
http://www.independent.ie/world-news/ga ... 26564.html
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... y/3433449/
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/11/05/tech/ ... f-planets/
http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronom ... ommon.html
http://www.theverge.com/2013/4/18/42397 ... lanets-yet


Indeed, and that's just basing the criteria for 'life' on factors we think might be close to ours.

If we allow for the simple fact that life in the universe might not be like us, we've really got no idea how many worlds might support life.
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Divair
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Postby Divair » Fri Feb 14, 2014 7:50 am

Grave_n_idle wrote:


Indeed, and that's just basing the criteria for 'life' on factors we think might be close to ours.

If we allow for the simple fact that life in the universe might not be like us, we've really got no idea how many worlds might support life.

We simply cannot predict it. If we start looking at things like silicon-based life and other odd varieties of existence, we've suddenly found ourselves in a universe full of planets that could have life.
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Grave_n_idle
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Postby Grave_n_idle » Fri Feb 14, 2014 7:51 am

The Solar System Scope wrote:Something you can't explain.
The Bible says: read Jeremiah 33:22.
How did they know that the stars were so many?
You can only see 3 000 stars with the naked eye at best.
That equals with ONE handful of sand.


The 'host of heaven' is the army of angels, not the number of stars.
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European Socialist Republic
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Postby European Socialist Republic » Fri Feb 14, 2014 7:52 am

The Solar System Scope wrote:Something you can't explain.
The Bible says: read Jeremiah 33:22.
How did they know that the stars were so many?
You can only see 3 000 stars with the naked eye at best.
That equals with ONE handful of sand.

If you only take one quick look, 3,000 probably appears to be "countless". Also, I doubt they bothered counting all the stars in the sky.
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I am a Trotskyist.
Cosmopolitan: 71%
Secular: 80%
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Grave_n_idle
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Postby Grave_n_idle » Fri Feb 14, 2014 7:53 am

Divair wrote:
Grave_n_idle wrote:
Indeed, and that's just basing the criteria for 'life' on factors we think might be close to ours.

If we allow for the simple fact that life in the universe might not be like us, we've really got no idea how many worlds might support life.

We simply cannot predict it. If we start looking at things like silicon-based life and other odd varieties of existence, we've suddenly found ourselves in a universe full of planets that could have life.


And yet, we've only been to one - and that's only because it's the one we're already on.

And we find new life here all the time. We haven't even worked out what rules really govern carbon life on the one world we HAVE been on.
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Divair
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Postby Divair » Fri Feb 14, 2014 7:55 am

Grave_n_idle wrote:
Divair wrote:We simply cannot predict it. If we start looking at things like silicon-based life and other odd varieties of existence, we've suddenly found ourselves in a universe full of planets that could have life.


And yet, we've only been to one - and that's only because it's the one we're already on.

And we find new life here all the time. We haven't even worked out what rules really govern carbon life on the one world we HAVE been on.

Quite. It's simply insane to claim we're the only life in the universe. There might be other life in this very solar system.
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Grave_n_idle
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Postby Grave_n_idle » Fri Feb 14, 2014 7:57 am

Divair wrote:
Grave_n_idle wrote:
And yet, we've only been to one - and that's only because it's the one we're already on.

And we find new life here all the time. We haven't even worked out what rules really govern carbon life on the one world we HAVE been on.

Quite. It's simply insane to claim we're the only life in the universe. There might be other life in this very solar system.


I don't think it's insane to claim that we are the only life - it's just a bad argument. The terms are so poorly defined that it's almost meaningless, and we just plain haven't been to the universe yet.
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Mavorpen
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Postby Mavorpen » Fri Feb 14, 2014 7:58 am

Divair wrote:
Grave_n_idle wrote:
And yet, we've only been to one - and that's only because it's the one we're already on.

And we find new life here all the time. We haven't even worked out what rules really govern carbon life on the one world we HAVE been on.

Quite. It's simply insane to claim we're the only life in the universe. There might be other life in this very solar system.

If we find out that Europa has a core that allows for hydrothermal vents, then we it wouldn't be a stretch to say there is probably life on it with with a good amount of certainty.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman
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Divair
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Postby Divair » Fri Feb 14, 2014 7:59 am

Mavorpen wrote:
Divair wrote:Quite. It's simply insane to claim we're the only life in the universe. There might be other life in this very solar system.

If we find out that Europa has a core that allows for hydrothermal vents, then we it wouldn't be a stretch to say there is probably life on it with with a good amount of certainty.

Exactly. We should really explore Europa.
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The Solar System Scope
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Postby The Solar System Scope » Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:00 am

The Solar System Scope wrote:Big Bang theory believers and others check this:
Science News, 23 & 31 August 1974, page 124
The Reader's Digest, September 1978, page 99
The Earth, New York, 1963, Arthur Beiser, page 10
The Holy Scriptures, Hebrews 3:4 & Songs 104:24

1. "It seems that this kind of special and accurate conditions are impossible that they happened by chance."
2. "It doesn't leave me a choice but to recognize the existence of a higher being that is responsible for the design and development of the amazing connection of mind-brain--something that is much higher than the ability of human to understand it."
3. Earth is "the miracle of the Universe, one unique sphere."
4. Find it yourself!
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Grave_n_idle
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Postby Grave_n_idle » Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:02 am

Mavorpen wrote:
Divair wrote:Quite. It's simply insane to claim we're the only life in the universe. There might be other life in this very solar system.

If we find out that Europa has a core that allows for hydrothermal vents, then we it wouldn't be a stretch to say there is probably life on it with with a good amount of certainty.


Exactly. "God made the world, because if he didn't, where's all the life?" is just a terrible argument, because we have pretty good candidates that we still can't get to in our OWN solar system, and using ridiculously anthropocentric qualifications for what 'life' might be.
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Mavorpen
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Postby Mavorpen » Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:03 am

Divair wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:If we find out that Europa has a core that allows for hydrothermal vents, then we it wouldn't be a stretch to say there is probably life on it with with a good amount of certainty.

Exactly. We should really explore Europa.

Preferably with humans.
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Divair
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Postby Divair » Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:03 am

Mavorpen wrote:
Divair wrote:Exactly. We should really explore Europa.

Preferably with humans.

Supported by robots. Lots of robots.
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The Solar System Scope
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Founded: Oct 13, 2013
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Postby The Solar System Scope » Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:03 am

Divair wrote:
Grave_n_idle wrote:
And yet, we've only been to one - and that's only because it's the one we're already on.

And we find new life here all the time. We haven't even worked out what rules really govern carbon life on the one world we HAVE been on.

Quite. It's simply insane to claim we're the only life in the universe. There might be other life in this very solar system.

No, we're so unique that we express feelings like love, anger, sorrow and happiness.
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