Religious Economics: What position would you take?

[Menassa]

Generally I'd go with the Jewish system of economics as stated in the Old Testament and further explained in the Talmud.

Which is really a large far reaching system...

[The USOT]

Generally I'd go with the Jewish system of economics as stated in the Old Testament and further explained in the Talmud.

Which is really a large far reaching system...

Can you provide a link or give a general summary? It doesnt have to be too extensive. I for instance summed up the theories of emptiness and co-dependent origination in 1 or two sentences XD

[Blasveck]

Generally I'd go with the Jewish system of economics as stated in the Old Testament and further explained in the Talmud.

Which is really a large far reaching system...

So you admit that the Jews control all banks far and wide?

I knew it...

[ShadowDragons]

I would go for prosperity theology out of these. Personally I'm more of a supporter of economic liberalism.

[Pope Joan]

The Anabaptists have generated several successful communal organizations, most recently the Bruderhof. They practice Christian communism. This means that they are patterned after the early church; in no way should it be understood that they admire or want to emulate Lenin.

http://www.billionbibles.org/china/chri ... unism.html

Mennonites is general are hard working capitalists. They can be shrewd businesspeople. They save money by spending nothing on luxuries. But they are also extremely generous, helping friends, neighbors and strangers with gifts of cash, physical labor, and material gifts. A pastor gave me a car. Outright, no strings.

I do not know what kind of economic system that would be called, but I like it.

[Jamjai]

I guess islamic banking
If you what to buy a property the bank will buy it for the person and then I guess the person pay the bank later

Good for a poor person

[Solaray]

Distributism sounds very reasonable. It's basically just regulated capitalism, which the majority of economies are to some degree anyway.

[Taoju]

A combination of Islamic banking and Self sufficiency economics, as I believe that in a moral and religious sense, that wealth should not become the means of destroying your neighbor or customer. The greater good outweighs one's own personal greed.

[Temujinn]

I thought this would be interesting. We often discuss religion and various topics such as "liberty" or "rights" associated with them, and yet I have never seen a thread devoted to religion based economics.
Note that to be a proponent of religious based economics, you don’t have to actually be of that religion. A good example of this in common conversation is the number of non Muslims who are fans of Islamic Banking or the United Nations Development Programs promotion of the Thailand Sufficiency Economy program (which has much of its reasoning in Buddhist philosophy).
Whilst I encourage you to discuss any hybrid of religion and economics, for secular reasons (as well as the fact that there are so many possible schools of thought I could cover) I personally will be limiting the poll to economic ideas which are based FROM religion rather than the hybridisation of religion with economic principles (e.g. Catholic Distributism is based on centuries of Catholic Philosophy developing an economic stance, whilst Christian Communism is essentially justifying Marxist ideas through Bible passages).

If anyone knows any ideas which fit that general description, please let me know and if there is room I will add them to the poll.

So a basic description of a few just to give an idea of general principles surrounding them.

Distributism

Distributism is a set of economic principles and values that was set up by the Catholic Church, and has been very flexible in its history of thought and application (being used to inspire Tories, Anarchists, Christian Democracy and popular "socialist" exemplars of the modern day such as the Mondragon Corporation). It is too diverse for me to summarise too effectively, but in short it advocates Private Property as a fundamental right and core for sound economics, but is opposed to private property being in control of the state or a few individuals and instead promotes the maximisation of private property to as many people as possible (generally being against both laissez-faire and State Capitalism). For more information, read the Wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributism#Big_Society

Islamic Economics: Islamic Banking.

Before I begin, I am not as familiar with the history of Islamic Economics as I am East Asian or Western economic theory, so I am by no means the best person to write this and am going entirely off of the Wikipedia article on Islamic Banking. If one of the many Muslims on this forum would be inclined to show a specific economic trend or ideology beyond banking policy then I will happily add it to the OP.
On the Wikipedia page I recommend looking at the principles section and the Islamic Financial Transaction Terminology which show some of the legal theory Islamic Banking and some of its universal principles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_banking

Self Sufficiency Economy

The Self Sufficiency Economy was theorised by Thailands king Bhumibol Adulyadej and bases itself strongly off of Buddhist economics. Whilst designed for developing countries (and as said earlier promoted by the UNDP), some of its principles are discussed in certain circles as having applications in more developed countries and has been used as a flagship for theories of green economics independent of the traditional "left/right" spectrum. Its primary ethics are the promotion of individual autonomy (in a Buddhist understanding of the term) and sustainability as greater economic success than profit. Its principles direct local communities (both urban and rural) to meet requirements that should minimize economic issues caused by environmental and market disasters, such as renewable production (energy, resource usage etc) with government spending aimed at renewing and maintaining economic autonomy which is then carried out on the local level. Its principle of autonomy is a tad confusing to many based on the Buddhist perspective on identity (emptiness often being misunderstood for "nothing" rather than in relation to the philosophy of dependent origination) but it can be summed up best as a concept of the individual which recognizes its individuality as dependent on other beings rather than an atomized sense of self. Normally I would link the Wikipedia article on it, but it is not very good at describing it, so here is the UNDP study from 2007 discussing it as well as a page from the journal of Buddhist Ethics for those who are interested. http://www.unesco.org/new/fileadmin/MULTIMEDIA/HQ/Rio20/images/Sufficiency%20Economy%20and%20Human%20Development.pdf
http://blogs.dickinson.edu/buddhistethics/files/2010/06/Essen.pdf

Prosperity Theology

Prosperity Theology is a pro laissez-faire theological doctrine which believes that financial blessing is a gift from God
The underlying idea here is that God rewards the faithful with wealth in this life. Thus those who are rich must have won God's favor (or are being elevated to wealth as part of God's plan), while those who are poor must have offended God (or are being tested as part of God's plan). Either way, it is up to each individual (and God) to help the poor, not the state or society. Indeed, the Bible specifically asserts that "the poor will be with us always"; thus, to use the resources of the state or society to alleviate poverty is a blasphemous rejection of God's will made manifest.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology

So NSG. If you had to pick one Religious school of economics, what would it be? (remember, it doesnt have to be anything in the poll, feel free to insert or suggest other ideas )

Of the three thus far, I would probably pick the Self Sufficiency Economy. If nothing more out of an interesting exercise in applying its values to more developed countries.

I cant vote in your poll, because I believe in Prosperity Theology(though not your given description), I believe one can be blessed with prosperity, but not that economic/financial prosperity is itself evidence of blessing-- That being said I believe those more fortunate should help those less fortunate-- If you have nothing and I have something, I should share it, not because you have earned it, but because as a Christian its simply what Jesus told me to do. Charity. If i happen to be blessed to have had my hard work pay off in exceptional dividends then there is that much more I should be helping.

Removing religion form the equation however, I also believe in Community involvement, and find the concept of not trying to lift your neighbors up a little to be illogical and morally reprehensible. Im a strong proponent of Civic Nationalism, and believe it must start at the local level. As it happens I do not believe this position conflicts with my religious faith.

[Menassa]

Generally I'd go with the Jewish system of economics as stated in the Old Testament and further explained in the Talmud.

Which is really a large far reaching system...

Can you provide a link or give a general summary? It doesnt have to be too extensive. I for instance summed up the theories of emptiness and co-dependent origination in 1 or two sentences XD

http://www.acton.org/pub/religion-liberty/volume-17-number-1/jewish-theology-and-economic-theory
So far that's been pretty spot on...

Mainly in agrarian societies a lot would be left over for the consumption of the needy.

[Hetalian Indie Rio de Janeiro]

A combination of Islamic banking and Self sufficiency economics, as I believe that in a moral and religious sense, that wealth should not become the means of destroying your neighbor or customer. The greater good outweighs one's own personal greed.

This.

Prosperity theology is just dis-gus-ting.

[Menassa]

A combination of Islamic banking and Self sufficiency economics, as I believe that in a moral and religious sense, that wealth should not become the means of destroying your neighbor or customer. The greater good outweighs one's own personal greed.

This.

Prosperity theology is just dis-gus-ting.

Wealth can be a blessing from God, I don't see what's wrong with that.
The issue arises when you squander that blessing by say not assisting those in need.

[Libertechie]

The Anabaptists have generated several successful communal organizations, most recently the Bruderhof. They practice Christian communism. This means that they are patterned after the early church; in no way should it be understood that they admire or want to emulate Lenin.

http://www.billionbibles.org/china/chri ... unism.html

Mennonites is general are hard working capitalists. They can be shrewd businesspeople. They save money by spending nothing on luxuries. But they are also extremely generous, helping friends, neighbors and strangers with gifts of cash, physical labor, and material gifts. A pastor gave me a car. Outright, no strings.

I do not know what kind of economic system that would be called, but I like it.

Me too, that's why I'm really drawn to the Amish way of life, they seem to have created a true socialist utopia to me, and I quite like that kinda model. Tbh I'm a libertarian, and I like to keep religion seperate from politics, but I'm christian demo-curious, and distributism is quite intriguing.

[Hetalian Indie Rio de Janeiro]

This.

Prosperity theology is just dis-gus-ting.

Wealth can be a blessing from God, I don't see what's wrong with that.
The issue arises when you squander that blessing by say not assisting those in need.

The underlying idea here is that God rewards the faithful with wealth in this life. Thus those who are rich must have won God's favor (or are being elevated to wealth as part of God's plan), while those who are poor must have offended God (or are being tested as part of God's plan).

I think, aside being victim-blaming right-wing (what is in itself already an inherently bad thing imho), spitting in the face of all that's good about Christianity.

[Wamitoria]

This.

Prosperity theology is just dis-gus-ting.

Wealth can be a blessing from God, I don't see what's wrong with that.
The issue arises when you squander that blessing by say not assisting those in need.

Well, that's the thing. Implicit in prosperity theology is that those less fortunate than you don't deserve your charity. In other words, "If you were right with god, you'd be rich."

[Alien Space Bats]

Well, that's the thing. Implicit in prosperity theology is that those less fortunate than you don't deserve your charity. In other words, "If you were right with god, you'd be rich."

Or you're being tested. There IS that possibility.

It's an important distinction: It explains how some of the people who support this particular world-view can see virtue in individual poor people, but generally view the poor as a CLASS to be morally deficient.

[Libertechie]

This is an excerpt from Malachi 3 in the NIV.

“In tithes and offerings. 9 You are under a curse—your whole nation—because you are robbing me. 10 Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this,” says the Lord Almighty, “and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that there will not be room enough to store it. 11 I will prevent pests from devouring your crops, and the vines in your fields will not drop their fruit before it is ripe,” says the Lord Almighty. 12 “Then all the nations will call you blessed, for yours will be a delightful land,” says the Lord Almighty.

You are blessed when you bring in your tithe, but blessing isn't always a financial one.

[The New World Oceania]

Would the Self-Sufficiency economy be comparable to Rand's objectivism? I note that the former implies existence of government intervention, but they're both based on the principle of oneself, it seems.
Am I interpreting it incorrectly?

[Menassa]

This is an excerpt from Malachi 3 in the NIV.

“In tithes and offerings. 9 You are under a curse—your whole nation—because you are robbing me. 10 Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this,” says the Lord Almighty, “and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that there will not be room enough to store it. 11 I will prevent pests from devouring your crops, and the vines in your fields will not drop their fruit before it is ripe,” says the Lord Almighty. 12 “Then all the nations will call you blessed, for yours will be a delightful land,” says the Lord Almighty.

You are blessed when you bring in your tithe, but blessing isn't always a financial one.

That doesn't seem to have much to do with money, and seems a simple parable in discussing the end of days.

[Korintar]

Well, I do admire the Islamic banking model. A synthesis of Christian Liberation Theology, Islamic banking, and Buddhist Self-Sufficiency economics would be a good model, as would a strictly applied form of Jewish economics as outlined in the Torah.

Actually, for a conworld that I created the economic system was based upon a complex system of feast days for the various clans and tribes that made up the country. During these numerous feast days, families with greater amounts of material goods would give away their material abundance as gifts to less fortunate families, which often established ties with those families, creating mutual aid networks both within and among the clans. This festivalism, as I called it, was mandated by their religion as the economic system they were to use.

[Taoju]

Wealth can be a blessing from God, I don't see what's wrong with that.
The issue arises when you squander that blessing by say not assisting those in need.

The underlying idea here is that God rewards the faithful with wealth in this life. Thus those who are rich must have won God's favor (or are being elevated to wealth as part of God's plan), while those who are poor must have offended God (or are being tested as part of God's plan).

I think, aside being victim-blaming right-wing (what is in itself already an inherently bad thing imho), spitting in the face of all that's good about Christianity.

The Prosperity Theology seems to be counter intuitive of what Christianity has stood for since their conception. It just seems overly elitist and self serving in the end with means that just don't stack up on a moral sense. Christianity stood for ultimate selflessness and piety, virtues that are indeed honorable, the prosperity theology seems to null those virtues and put a sense of self centered-ness that seems... unheard of in traditional Christianity.

[Geilinor]

I'd go with distributism. Prosperity theology doesn't sound very Christian at all and is just laissez-faire libertarianism restated.

[Hetalian Indie Rio de Janeiro]

The Prosperity Theology seems to be counter intuitive of what Christianity has stood for since their conception. It just seems overly elitist and self serving in the end with means that just don't stack up on a moral sense. Christianity stood for ultimate selflessness and piety, virtues that are indeed honorable, the prosperity theology seems to null those virtues and put a sense of self centered-ness that seems... unheard of in traditional Christianity.

It is one of the many reasons me and a countless other sort of Latin Americans are quite unhappy with the increasing influence of conservative American-originated forms of Christianity in our region. It is hypocritical and meant to obey the interests of those on the top of the system, alienating the lower classes - that they further exploit here through "taxes to the heaven" as literally 10% of their income, if the slavery that is being a worker in a third world nation wasn't already enough - through such toxic form of ideology. Contact with such way of thinking since an early age was surely among the things that made me an atheist and a communist so early.

[Taoju]

The Prosperity Theology seems to be counter intuitive of what Christianity has stood for since their conception. It just seems overly elitist and self serving in the end with means that just don't stack up on a moral sense. Christianity stood for ultimate selflessness and piety, virtues that are indeed honorable, the prosperity theology seems to null those virtues and put a sense of self centered-ness that seems... unheard of in traditional Christianity.

It is one of the many reasons me and a countless other sort of Latin Americans are quite unhappy with the increasing influence of conservative American-originated forms of Christianity in our region. It is hypocritical and meant to obey the interests of those on the top of the system, alienating the lower classes - that they further exploit here through "taxes to the heaven" as literally 10% of their income, if the slavery that is being a worker in a third world nation wasn't already enough - through such toxic form of ideology. Contact with such way of thinking since an early age was surely among the things that made me an atheist and a communist so early.

It goes back to me thinking that religion at face value economics wise is left wing in nature, just that humans are greedy beings that twist and morph the very words of generosity and compassion into a blade and vacuum of greed to serve only themselves.

[Maineiacs]

The Prosperity Theology seems to be counter intuitive of what Christianity has stood for since their conception. It just seems overly elitist and self serving in the end with means that just don't stack up on a moral sense. Christianity stood for ultimate selflessness and piety, virtues that are indeed honorable, the prosperity theology seems to null those virtues and put a sense of self centered-ness that seems... unheard of in traditional Christianity.

It is one of the many reasons me and a countless other sort of Latin Americans are quite unhappy with the increasing influence of conservative American-originated forms of Christianity in our region. It is hypocritical and meant to obey the interests of those on the top of the system, alienating the lower classes - that they further exploit here through "taxes to the heaven" as literally 10% of their income, if the slavery that is being a worker in a third world nation wasn't already enough - through such toxic form of ideology. Contact with such way of thinking since an early age was surely among the things that made me an atheist and a communist so early.

"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a Communist." -- Dom Hélder Pessoa Câmara