Philippines Discussion Thread

[Bolnoa]

Fixed.

Or is it???

You are making me really angry. Communism is already an ideology bound to fail because man will always become selfish and that ideology will be sabotaged. To have communism work in the Philippines, everybody must be as tough as Jesus to sarcifice material goods for everyone else's welfare.

And how could you like conservatism!

And then we can all be like Jesus!

Start giving people, the more you share the more you care. If you don't share you don't care and your road to be like Jesus has just ended.

[Connori Pilgrims]

You are making me really angry. Communism is already an ideology bound to fail because man will always become selfish and that ideology will be sabotaged. To have communism work in the Philippines, everybody must be as tough as Jesus to sarcifice material goods for everyone else's welfare.

And how could you like conservatism!

And then we can all be like Jesus!

Start giving people, the more you share the more you care. If you don't share you don't care and your road to be like Jesus has just ended.

To be fair, Jesus is arguably more socialist than most people (even the lol Americans) realize

That said, Philippine folk Catholicism (heck even Philippine Islam) is a strange beast full of contradiction and hypocrisy.

[Zhouran]

And then we can all be like Jesus!

Start giving people, the more you share the more you care. If you don't share you don't care and your road to be like Jesus has just ended.

To be fair, Jesus is arguably more socialist than most people (even the lol Americans) realize

That said, Philippine folk Catholicism (heck even Philippine Islam) is a strange beast full of contradiction and hypocrisy.

Jesus was like a guerrilla militant. Although, he was doing things in the name of God.

As for the Philippine folk Catholicism, definitely full of contradiction and hypocrisy.

[Zhouran]

Fixed.

Or is it???

You are making me really angry. Communism is already an ideology bound to fail because man will always become selfish and that ideology will be sabotaged. To have communism work in the Philippines, everybody must be as tough as Jesus to sarcifice material goods for everyone else's welfare.

And how could you like conservatism!

It was just a joke. Something to laugh or, something.
You don't see me getting enraged because of "nationalist progressivism."

Of course communism won't work in the Philippines. We are simply unsuitable for communism. Our minds is too brainwashed with nationalism, which I see as a threat and a reason for failures of our nation. We have been boasting to the world, and yet we only achieved little to none. As for China, everything in the 1950's was going really good, until Mao Zedong messed up the nation during the 1960's.

[The Republic of Pantalleria]

1986 EDSA anniversary isn't far. What's everyones opinions on the EDSA revolution.

Noynoy should not rub to everyone's faces that his parents contributed in the revolution to gain personal prestige and compensate himself for his incompetent administration.

You mean the administration that boasts a very high growth rate, making us the fastest growing economy in ASEAN for the past three years and counting despite an insurgency, major earthquake and the strongest typhoon to ever make landfall in the recorded history of the World?

[Asigna]

Noynoy should not rub to everyone's faces that his parents contributed in the revolution to gain personal prestige and compensate himself for his incompetent administration.

You mean the administration that boasts a very high growth rate, making us the fastest growing economy in ASEAN for the past three years and counting despite an insurgency, major earthquake and the strongest typhoon to ever make landfall in the recorded history of the World?

Touche' but Noynoy is just really bad at making a new image of the government under his banner to make all of the Philippines believe in him.

[The Republic of Pantalleria]

You mean the administration that boasts a very high growth rate, making us the fastest growing economy in ASEAN for the past three years and counting despite an insurgency, major earthquake and the strongest typhoon to ever make landfall in the recorded history of the World?

Touche' but Noynoy is just really bad at making a new image of the government under his banner to make all of the Philippines believe in him.

He isn't bad, it's just that he still hasn't completely reformed the government yet, I mean the executive branch of government is fine, now he has to deal with the senators then the Congress men/women, then after that, further down until he's reformed the whole government, not to mention he has to deal with Mis War, Beijing, the Abu Sayaff and NPA. So give him some slack.

[Asigna]

He isn't bad, it's just that he still hasn't completely reformed the government yet, I mean the executive branch of government is fine, now he has to deal with the senators then the Congress men/women, then after that, further down until he's reformed the whole government, not to mention he has to deal with Mis War, Beijing, the Abu Sayaff and NPA. So give him some slack.

No slacking! We need a leader wo is determined. In a case such as the Philippines we really do. Otherwise even someone like Noynoy couldn't solve our problem. Our country is demoralized, unnationalized and lazy, we need someone resilient to change that. Since the bad seeds and traits of the Filipino people had persisted for decades already since the people power, we can say old habits die hard.

Noynoy is supposed to be brilliant but he's also lazy-and a bad model, a smoker.

[Zhouran]

He isn't bad, it's just that he still hasn't completely reformed the government yet, I mean the executive branch of government is fine, now he has to deal with the senators then the Congress men/women, then after that, further down until he's reformed the whole government, not to mention he has to deal with Mis War, Beijing, the Abu Sayaff and NPA. So give him some slack.

No slacking! We need a leader wo is determined. In a case such as the Philippines we really do. Otherwise even someone like Noynoy couldn't solve our problem. Our country is demoralized, unnationalized and lazy, we need someone resilient to change that. Since the bad seeds and traits of the Filipino people had persisted for decades already since the people power, we can say old habits die hard.

Noynoy is supposed to be brilliant but he's also lazy-and a bad model, a smoker.

Although both of us have different ideas of a better future for the Philippines, I have to agree. Just to let you know, Aquino is very nationalistic, which I see as a bad thing.

Anyway, I don't see any competent politicians that will lead the nation. Our nation is doomed.

[Asigna]

Anyway, I don't see any competent politicians that will lead the nation. Our nation is doomed.

Tell me why nationalism is a bad thing. How do you view the blood of those heroes who died for the bayan? How do you treasure Jose Rizal? Communism is merely only to make their sacrifices all in vain! We will lose our place in this world as a people and we would lose our identity if we lack nationalism! Communism is an impossible task therefore dismissible. Nationalism is the only thing that can unite the Filipino people now and bring us to a better world and we should look for the right time to alight that flame so our people may be united under the banner of progress. I know someday. But not today. If we serve our nation, we are serving each other as a people. We have no time to help the welfare of other nations if we can't even help ourselves yet.

Now....how does communism help our people other than dividing our society into two major groups and being ran under the illiterate rather than helping it to become united?

[Zhouran]

Anyway, I don't see any competent politicians that will lead the nation. Our nation is doomed.

Tell me why nationalism is a bad thing. How do you view the blood of those heroes who died for the bayan? How do you treasure Jose Rizal? Communism is merely only to make their sacrifices all in vain! We will lose our place in this world as a people and we would lose our identity if we lack nationalism! Communism is an impossible task therefore dismissible. Nationalism is the only thing that can unite the Filipino people now and bring us to a better world and we should look for the right time to alight that flame so our people may be united under the banner of progress. I know someday. But not today. If we serve our nation, we are serving each other as a people. We have no time to help the welfare of other nations if we can't even help ourselves yet.

Now....how does communism help our people other than dividing our society into two major groups and being ran under the illiterate rather than helping it to become united?

If communism took power, we could become more industrialized, our army could be armed more and also, corrupt politicians get executed.

I'm holding the banner of the revolution. The people are the ones who shall lead the nation. Too bad it won't work in the Philippines because communism is too advance for most people in the Philippines to understand. Communism can only work in China (before Mao screwed up because of Cultural Revolution) and Africa (before 1977).

[Asigna]

If communism took power, we could become more industrialized, our army could be armed more and also, corrupt politicians get executed.

I'm holding the banner of the revolution. The people are the ones who shall lead the nation. Too bad it won't work in the Philippines because communism is too advance for most people in the Philippines to understand. Communism can only work in China (before Mao screwed up because of Cultural Revolution) and Africa (before 1977).

Communism as an ideology has proved that it has failed after the end of the cold war, an impossible means for an impossible aim. Man's selfishness is too resilient and will always be there to sabotage the aims of communism. We are here not to make ways to eliminate a negative concept such as inequality or poverty, when we try to do so, we will only end up frustrated so it is only advised that we are here to help and improve the condition rather than to "perfect" it. China is supposed to be good as it is unless you remove the expansionist dreams, their authoritarian and corrupt powers over their people and their communist in name since they are a free market system and of course, they are nationalist. If communism can only work in one country, it will never succeed, communism is called to work all over the world. Mission impossible my friends. Humanity will always be stilled to its imperfections so i say the topic of communism should never be mentioned once again in this thread because we are to discuss what works for the Philippines and what goes on in it and to discuss things that are relevant for this naton. Neither communism nor socialism is relevant for the matter especially because we are talking about a nation in a world of humans not that of purely saints whom will be the only people who could unquestionably manifest communism without hesitation as their ideal society, ut we live in a sinful world. It has no relevance therefore.

You're a great visionary Zhouran but the means to establish your ideals will likely bring this country into deeper ruin. A free market system is fit for us because we are bound to answer the demands of foreign markets to help our own economy. We have a potential for agriculture, fresh water and electronic goods on the world market.

If you still sympathize China for their economy, have you seen the quality of the life being lived on by the majority of their population before looking on the privileged minority of the Chinese that were the only people whom are the only people being able to show and represent themselves for China? Sure...no...because censorship is in place in their nation.

Nationalism or progressive nationalism, give and take. Both give privileges for our nation and may turn us something like the developed economies at best.

[Zhouran]

If communism took power, we could become more industrialized, our army could be armed more and also, corrupt politicians get executed.

I'm holding the banner of the revolution. The people are the ones who shall lead the nation. Too bad it won't work in the Philippines because communism is too advance for most people in the Philippines to understand. Communism can only work in China (before Mao screwed up because of Cultural Revolution) and Africa (before 1977).

Communism as an ideology has proved that it has failed after the end of the cold war, an impossible means for an impossible aim. Man's selfishness is too resilient and will always be there to sabotage the aims of communism. We are here not to make ways to eliminate a negative concept such as inequality or poverty, when we try to do so, we will only end up frustrated so it is only advised that we are here to help and improve the condition rather than to "perfect" it. China is supposed to be good as it is unless you remove the expansionist dreams, their authoritarian and corrupt powers over their people and their communist in name since they are a free market system and of course, they are nationalist. If communism can only work in one country, it will never succeed, communism is called to work all over the world. Mission impossible my friends. Humanity will always be stilled to its imperfections so i say the topic of communism should never be mentioned once again in this thread because we are to discuss what works for the Philippines and what goes on in it and to discuss things that are relevant for this naton. Neither communism nor socialism is relevant for the matter especially because we are talking about a nation in a world of humans not that of purely saints whom will be the only people who could unquestionably manifest communism without hesitation as their ideal society, ut we live in a sinful world. It has no relevance therefore.

You're a great visionary Zhouran but the means to establish your ideals will likely bring this country into deeper ruin. A free market system is fit for us because we are bound to answer the demands of foreign markets to help our own economy. We have a potential for agriculture, fresh water and electronic goods on the world market.

If you still sympathize China for their economy, have you seen the quality of the life being lived on by the majority of their population before looking on the privileged minority of the Chinese that were the only people whom are the only people being able to show and represent themselves for China? Sure...no...because censorship is in place in their nation.

Nationalism or progressive nationalism, give and take. Both give privileges for our nation and may turn us something like the developed economies at best.

I was just talking about communism, my opinions on it and the nation.

Anyway, I also respect your views, but we are VERY different people.

[The Republic of Pantalleria]

Asigna, as a debater myself, I must tell you how impressive your rebuttal was, I cannot believe that you were able to do an agreeing rebuttal to the extent that you were able to achieve, keeping in mind that in many ways you're an extremist. Bravo I say, bravo.

[Zhouran]

Asigna, as a debater myself, I must tell you how impressive your rebuttal was, I cannot believe that you were able to do an agreeing rebuttal to the extent that you were able to achieve, keeping in mind that in many ways you're an extremist. Bravo I say, bravo.

Asigna an extremist?

To me, he's more of a progressivist.

[Mike the Progressive]

What about a Korean thread? h8ers gonna h8

No, I'm kidding. Well my view on the Philippines is difficult. On one hand, I've dated a couple of Filipino girls either born and raised in the US or spent most of their lives in the US. So obviously my judgement is affected by poon. Not to mention, I have a couple friends who are Filipino, especially one good friend.

On the other hand, Adam Carolla did raise some valid points before.

So I guess it's ok.

[Zhouran]

In my opinions, progressivism is a wet dream.

Humanity will always be stilled to its imperfections

You know, no human person is perfect, Asigna. If this is what you're saying, then progressivism won't work as well. Humans are filthy, corrupt men who only wants power for themselves. As for nationalism, it poisons the minds of people. Just because I hate nationalism, doesn't mean I hate cultural identities. A nation can be un-nationalistic while retaining their cultural identity. Nationalism did not exist hundreds of years ago. I just hope you knew that.

I'm not saying progressivism is terrible, but it is. Raised in a Western society, I don't see progressivism used by any one, although I am happy if you tell me one nation that does.

[Asigna]

Asigna, as a debater myself, I must tell you how impressive your rebuttal was, I cannot believe that you were able to do an agreeing rebuttal to the extent that you were able to achieve, keeping in mind that in many ways you're an extremist. Bravo I say, bravo.

The seemingly existent air of sarcasm that exists in your post makes me discouraged. To what post are you talking about?

In my opinions, progressivism is a wet dream.

Humanity will always be stilled to its imperfections

You know, no human person is perfect, Asigna. If this is what you're saying, then progressivism won't work as well.

Why won't it? Don't you even know what progressivism is? It is similar to liberalism.

People "don't use progressivism" because they tend to use "liberalism" in place of the word. The primary supporting ideals of progressivism is primarily social and personal liberty, economic democracy and political democracy. Then that would allow the progress to come along. The progress i mean are the ones we see happening successfully in the west.

Nationalism is different from ultra nationalism and fascism. Know that. A true nationalist government could be something more like the British empire. Nationalism is not an ideology, it is a feeling of patriotism or love for country but that shouldn't limit the people from making friends with another nation.

Nationalism is something more like a country's self confidence. But we all know too much self confidence is pride. While i say we should love our country...i am not saying we should love it too much that we see no other as more "holier" than ours.

And for what about your ideology? Dictatorship of the Proletariat and that often ends up marginalizing a group of people and you want that to happen? For what about the equality that you want to have everywhere? You often name yourself as a communist but you support treating a group of people whom you simply name as the "bourgeoisie" in a bad way?
Communism you preach and you talk about limiting power to the proletariat alone? What about the others? Where is the equality that you want!? I can see no other reason why my friends...we should throw the idea of this man out of any possibility. It's beyond outrageous and his arguments has a lot of contradictions to his ideals.

In that way i can say communism.....is a more potent poison than nationalism. If America could had chosen that dreaded ideology, it would had collapsed by now.

[Zhouran]

And for what about your ideology? Dictatorship of the Proletariat and that often ends up marginalizing a group of people and you want that to happen? For what about the equality that you want to have everywhere? You often name yourself as a communist but you support treating a group of people whom you simply name as the "bourgeoisie" in a bad way?
Communism you preach and you talk about limiting power to the proletariat alone? What about the others? Where is the equality that you want!? I can see no other reason why my friends...we should throw the idea of this man out of any possibility. It's beyond outrageous and his arguments has a lot of contradictions to his ideals.

In that way i can say communism.....is a more potent poison than nationalism. If America could had chosen that dreaded ideology, it would had collapsed by now.

Why do you support the bourgeois?

I can see that you have this thing for equality. Would you be equal to a neo-nazi?

There are people in life that deserve Hell. The Bourgeois are a bunch of filthy, greedy people who exploit the proletariat. They deserve to starve to death.

[The Republic of Pantalleria]

Asigna, as a debater myself, I must tell you how impressive your rebuttal was, I cannot believe that you were able to do an agreeing rebuttal to the extent that you were able to achieve, keeping in mind that in many ways you're an extremist. Bravo I say, bravo.

Asigna an extremist?

To me, he's more of a progressivist.

No, he's an extremist, especially in his political views. He believes in a dictatorship despite the fact that we work best as a democracy.
Also I wasn't being sarcastic about my praise, your rebuttal was pretty well structured to the point that anyone could see your the victor. But I guess it's because I despise communism itself, not the ideology but the fact that mankind's imperfect nature is prone to corrupting ideologies that require a perfect population.

[The Republic of Pantalleria]

What about a Korean thread? h8ers gonna h8

No, I'm kidding. Well my view on the Philippines is difficult. On one hand, I've dated a couple of Filipino girls either born and raised in the US or spent most of their lives in the US. So obviously my judgement is affected by poon. Not to mention, I have a couple friends who are Filipino, especially one good friend.

On the other hand, Adam Carolla did raise some valid points before.

So I guess it's ok.

Well we Filipinos are pretty much well loved by the (western) World because if you haven't noticed by now, most Filipinos are either nurses, teachers, doctors, builders, care takers or cooks. We contribute to every society we're in and in turn people are demanding Filipino people to work overseas, which is a good thing for the economy and all, but that means quite often that a mother will leave her children to care for another child far away in order to keep food on the table. At the end of the day, that's mainly the only reason why Filipinos send approximately $25 billion a year back home.

[The Republic of Pantalleria]

And for what about your ideology? Dictatorship of the Proletariat and that often ends up marginalizing a group of people and you want that to happen? For what about the equality that you want to have everywhere? You often name yourself as a communist but you support treating a group of people whom you simply name as the "bourgeoisie" in a bad way?
Communism you preach and you talk about limiting power to the proletariat alone? What about the others? Where is the equality that you want!? I can see no other reason why my friends...we should throw the idea of this man out of any possibility. It's beyond outrageous and his arguments has a lot of contradictions to h[background=][/background]is ideals.

In that way i can say communism.....is a more potent poison than nationalism. If America could had chosen that dreaded ideology, it would had collapsed by now.

Why do you support the bourgeois?

I can see that you have this thing for equality. Would you be equal to a neo-nazi?

There are people in life that deserve Hell. The Bourgeois are a bunch of filthy, greedy people who exploit the proletariat. They deserve to starve to death.

I understand what you feel, I know what it's like I myself having lived through the Gloria days, and seeing her now as a Congress woman just sickens me to the core, however just as in animal farm, power corrupts



That's what it does, to the hands of unskilled people power will only destroy, I'm not 100% for equality but if we are to build a nation on morals, then we must give people a second chance to redeem themselves, if they don't change, then that's the time we punish them.

[Zhouran]

Why do you support the bourgeois?

I can see that you have this thing for equality. Would you be equal to a neo-nazi?

There are people in life that deserve Hell. The Bourgeois are a bunch of filthy, greedy people who exploit the proletariat. They deserve to starve to death.

I understand what you feel, I know what it's like I myself having lived through the Gloria days, and seeing her now as a Congress woman just sickens me to the core, however just as in animal farm, power corrupts



That's what it does, to the hands of unskilled people power will only destroy, I'm not 100% for equality but if we are to build a nation on morals, then we must give people a second chance to redeem themselves, if they don't change, then that's the time we punish them.

I like your opinion on this. Corruption is everywhere. We humans are born with corruption. If corruption cannot be destroyed, we will control corruption. We need to hold our corruption, just like holding your anger against someone.

[Asigna]

I like your opinion on this. Corruption is everywhere. We humans are born with corruption. If corruption cannot be destroyed, we will control corruption. We need to hold our corruption, just like holding your anger against someone.

Indeed. A "perfect" system does not exist. But there is such thing as the "best" system. Though not perfect, it is good. Now it is our job as Filipinos to find the best system fit for the bayan. All ideologies who envision perfect systems are bound to be sabotaged by human desires and fail, that is why i do not want to resort to communism nor socialism because it will only bring frustration to those people who will be willing to all their life pursue for it. Neither the inventor of communism, Lenin was not able to achieve it and neither the former bastion of communism, the USSR, failed to achieve it and had turned into simple dictatorships.

To every action we make for the good of this nation we should have a sense of nationalism and proud of the progress of our actions. In that way, we may not be able to make our country a perfect society but we will make this nation as a nation that improves from time to time. If after World war 2 we had did so with these conditions, we had became the 2nd most powerful economy in the whole of Asia, then we may want to repeat those conditions to achieve that again. With strength, determination, compassion, camaraderie and pride.

No, he's an extremist, especially in his political views. He believes in a dictatorship despite the fact that we work best as a democracy.

It doesn't neessarily mean i prefer dictatirships over democracy, it is just that our country needs to have a competent government hat will discipline our society to make it better. Also, justice is lagging in our nation and the only way we may pursue true justice on the obviously corrupt like what you said earlier, Gloria, is to dismiss the constitutional definition of justice and immediately put her to death without hesitation.

Anyway, it doesn't make a difference for us if we live a democracy or a dictatorship, all we need is a real leader for this nation, but that person must not be willing to make himself president for life, that is the corrupt dictator my friends. But if only you could see what i am seeing is the perfect way of leadership, unfortunately, it cannot be totally expressed in words, i guess someday both of us will be able to know it together.

The same as well with extrajudicial killings, it doesn't make a difference whether one dies in a death penalty outside court or inside court. What is important is that they are caught as criminals and delinquents must see justice! There is no statement back then in which i had said i favor the immediate deaths of suspected criminals, because we may never know if they are innocent or not. Only for those who are caught, they must die.

Mabuhay anyway!

[Zhouran]

I like your opinion on this. Corruption is everywhere. We humans are born with corruption. If corruption cannot be destroyed, we will control corruption. We need to hold our corruption, just like holding your anger against someone.

Indeed. A "perfect" system does not exist. But there is such thing as the "best" system. Though not perfect, it is good. Now it is our job as Filipinos to find the best system fit for the bayan. All ideologies who envision perfect systems are bound to be sabotaged by human desires and fail, that is why i do not want to resort to communism nor socialism because it will only bring frustration to those people who will be willing to all their life pursue for it. Neither the inventor of communism, Lenin was not able to achieve it and neither the former bastion of communism, the USSR, failed to achieve it and had turned into simple dictatorships.

To every action we make for the good of this nation we should have a sense of nationalism and proud of the progress of our actions. In that way, we may not be able to make our country a perfect society but we will make this nation as a nation that improves from time to time. If after World war 2 we had did so with these conditions, we had became the 2nd most powerful economy in the whole of Asia, then we may want to repeat those conditions to achieve that again. With strength, determination, compassion, camaraderie and pride.

To tell you the truth, even if we repeat those conditions, we cannot have the 2nd largest economy in Asia. Look at South Korea and China, both are economic dragons. As for us, we are behind. We may never beat Indonesia, who are economically rich.

Looking at South Korea, the Miracle on Han River was a huge success for them. Meanwhile, the Chinese Economic Reform has made China who she is today, lifting 50% of China's population from poverty, but increasing rich-poor gap.

Philippines will never be the regional power she was in the 70's. I don't think a economic reform will happen in the Philippines for another 20 years.