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Philippines Discussion Thread

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Luzvimindia
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Founded: Feb 12, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Luzvimindia » Mon May 12, 2014 11:33 pm

Benshir wrote:
Luzvimindia wrote:IMHO, the middle class and upper-middle class are the ones in the best position to help solve the problem of our country. They are not as rich as most of the known corrupt bureaucrats and political dynasties but are not too poor to be uneducated. Also, most of the middle class people have a history of coming from poorer circumstances and so they know what it means to truly work hard to become well-off. Unfortunately, the middle class is not very well represented in our society and usually go into business rather than politics. We are stuck in a medieval-type society where there are only two major divisions in society: the rich and the poor, and we all know what happens when that's the case.

That is true, and economics can explain why.

The middles and upper-middles of the country have much more to gain and lose from socio-political and socio-economic issues plaguing the country, and there are many of those to go around. It would be illogical for any political movement that seeks to reform or galvanize the Philippines, to turn to the poor and illiterate of this country. As charming as it is, their immediate interests lie in day-to-day affairs, and their lot is a lot worse than say, the homeless of of more developed countries. They are unable to see past their own plight, which is unfortunate yes, but will definitely not help in forming national policy for the PH.

That we will somehow be able to accommodate them, as a matter of political policy, immediately breaks the economic law of scarcity. To think that we can somehow accommodate all of them or that Keynesian economics is going to bail all of them out of the cycle of poverty is a pipe dream. They are not skilled workers. We've all heard the aspiring politician say that he wants to reach out to the poor - touching, but futile. The answer is in re-calibrating our policies and approach to investments both local and foreign. It's in investments in infrastructure, and in hanging (figuratively speaking) the incompetent buffoons in our government and injecting some fresh blood in, not only with aspirations and all their political agendas but also with a knowledge of economics and political economy. RAGE.

EDIT: I am not hating on the poor. I am just saying that policy grounded on their interests or social welfare catering specifically to their SEC, particularly when there are so many of them, and given our unsustainable population growth and misguided social policies, is only going to drain taxpayers' money and waste a lot of valuable time and resources the government could otherwise redirect to more profitable and beneficial investments.


Well said. I am actually very disappointed whenever I hear in the news that a mayor or a government official decides to give away money to the squatters in the cities. To me that's just allowing them to be EVEN MORE lazy to look for work and to enhance their skills. I mean, why does the money of most of the population go to these people when all they do is clog up our rivers by building homes there and cause security and safety problems for the people who live legally in those areas? They cause traffic jams because they build into the nearby roads, cause floods because they block the river passages, increase crime because they are forced to do illegal things for money and the list goes on and on. And these people are the ones getting all the taxpayers' money? Do they even pay taxes? I highly doubt that since they live on land that is not even theirs so they don't pay as much tax. Also, WHY in the world does the government have to pay for them to leave? They are illegal settlers in the first place. They should be FORCED to leave the city or find a better, legal place to live in.

There is nothing bad about helping the poor but our politicians should be prudent enough and smart enough to know what would really help them and what would not. These squatters are becoming spoiled and the "bahala na" attitude kicks in as a result. Unfortunately, the corrupt politicians take advantage of these people and use them to increase their votes in the elections. I would definitely support a law banning all illegal settlers and those living in a land that they do not pay for legally, to vote in any election. That's one sure way of keeping the corrupt from taking public positions and might just force the squatters to leave. Voting is not a right but a privilege, one that should be denied to anyone living illegally.

I'm sorry for ranting but really, we must all see that, not only is this country run by the corrupt and selfish, but also by the illiterate and the lazy.
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Benshir
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Founded: Mar 13, 2014
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Postby Benshir » Mon May 12, 2014 11:54 pm

Luzvimindia wrote:Well said. I am actually very disappointed whenever I hear in the news that a mayor or a government official decides to give away money to the squatters in the cities. To me that's just allowing them to be EVEN MORE lazy to look for work and to enhance their skills. I mean, why does the money of most of the population go to these people when all they do is clog up our rivers by building homes there and cause security and safety problems for the people who live legally in those areas? They cause traffic jams because they build into the nearby roads, cause floods because they block the river passages, increase crime because they are forced to do illegal things for money and the list goes on and on. And these people are the ones getting all the taxpayers' money? Do they even pay taxes? I highly doubt that since they live on land that is not even theirs so they don't pay as much tax. Also, WHY in the world does the government have to pay for them to leave? They are illegal settlers in the first place. They should be FORCED to leave the city or find a better, legal place to live in.

There is nothing bad about helping the poor but our politicians should be prudent enough and smart enough to know what would really help them and what would not. These squatters are becoming spoiled and the "bahala na" attitude kicks in as a result. Unfortunately, the corrupt politicians take advantage of these people and use them to increase their votes in the elections. I would definitely support a law banning all illegal settlers and those living in a land that they do not pay for legally, to vote in any election. That's one sure way of keeping the corrupt from taking public positions and might just force the squatters to leave. Voting is not a right but a privilege, one that should be denied to anyone living illegally.

I'm sorry for ranting but really, we must all see that, not only is this country run by the corrupt and selfish, but also by the illiterate and the lazy.

Very correct. It's all interconnected. While charity in the form of handing out cash or equivalents is flattering and heartwarming, it doesn't do much to help the recipients become more sustainable members of society. It doesn't help them break out of the cycle of poverty and become productive. On the contrary, as you've mentioned, it only reinforces their complacency and makes them an even bigger liability for those of us who are productive, who do pay taxes, who do go to school to get a diploma/degree or to work to put bread on the table. They're tools for opportunistic politicians, and the fetish of nearly every institution in this country from the government to the Filipino Church.

I'm all for helping the poor achieve better standards of living, but we can't expect their participation in the democratic process to be informed. "Reaching out to them" in contemporary Philippine politics just means vote buying, bogus projects and charities and freebies. It's easy to raise feelings of sympathy and rousing compassion towards helping them, and although I don't mean to generalize, let's not forget who's clogging up major metropolitan areas, putting up shanties near bodies of water and contributing to crime. To feel compassion for them and hold missions and charities to aid them is nice and I argue essential for a just and humane society, but to let them get in the way of planning and development is another.

I would definitely limit voting to registered citizens, and probably even those with at least an elementary education degree to guarantee they're literate. To allow people so suggestible by material gifts and short-term favors to vote was a mistake. It is not democracy but a bastardization of it. Voting is the citizenry's responsibility, and one must at the very least fulfill certain obligations to be called a member of such. We don't have to dip into nationalism here. Just the basics. Get an education, join the workforce/labor force in the industry of your liking or create value, pay your taxes, and be informed about what goes on around you.
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Sabah
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Sabah » Tue May 13, 2014 1:45 am

Joel Lambert's Man Hunt vs Philippine Scout Ranger. Ftw.
Last edited by Sabah on Tue May 13, 2014 1:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Benshir
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Founded: Mar 13, 2014
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Postby Benshir » Tue May 13, 2014 1:52 am

Sabah wrote:Joel Lambert's Man Hunt vs Philippine Scout Ranger. Ftw.

I've only watched an episode or two of his show on Discovery, but I'm pretty sure that pathfinding, recon and tracking would be what the Philippine SF's would particularly specialize in, given the country's terrain.
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Asigna
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Postby Asigna » Tue May 13, 2014 6:32 am

Benshir wrote:
Sabah wrote:Joel Lambert's Man Hunt vs Philippine Scout Ranger. Ftw.

I've only watched an episode or two of his show on Discovery, but I'm pretty sure that pathfinding, recon and tracking would be what the Philippine SF's would particularly specialize in, given the country's terrain.


And especially the stubborness of the insurgents in our nation has lead our country's soldiers to practice things like this to assure that outlaws like them do not get away.
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The Republic of Pantalleria
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Founded: Aug 23, 2012
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Postby The Republic of Pantalleria » Wed May 14, 2014 11:33 pm

The Pantallerian Economy and Other Details

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Benshir
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Postby Benshir » Wed May 14, 2014 11:35 pm

The Republic of Pantalleria wrote:Is anybody seeing this?

Yes, and I find it quite amusing. The Vietnamese people are a proud lot, and throughout their history have never tolerated other nations stepping on them - be it China, the US or the French. :p
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The Republic of Pantalleria
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Founded: Aug 23, 2012
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Postby The Republic of Pantalleria » Wed May 14, 2014 11:47 pm

Benshir wrote:
The Republic of Pantalleria wrote:Is anybody seeing this?

Yes, and I find it quite amusing. The Vietnamese people are a proud lot, and throughout their history have never tolerated other nations stepping on them - be it China, the US or the French. :p

Sigh... Well I think that they were wrong, what they should have done was increase discord among the people in China, for example, the Cantonese speaking part has always been poorer than the Mandarin speaking part, over 90% of the people in Hong Kong and Macau want to return to their respected European countries, Tibet wants to be independent, etc, etc. This is the perfect time to capitalise on this opportunity.
The Pantallerian Economy and Other Details

The Pantallerian Bureau of Tourism: Treading on maggots since we got our magnificent go go boots.

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Nationalist Eminral Republic
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Founded: Jun 24, 2012
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Postby Nationalist Eminral Republic » Thu May 15, 2014 9:17 am

The Republic of Pantalleria wrote:
Benshir wrote:Yes, and I find it quite amusing. The Vietnamese people are a proud lot, and throughout their history have never tolerated other nations stepping on them - be it China, the US or the French. :p

Sigh... Well I think that they were wrong, what they should have done was increase discord among the people in China, for example, the Cantonese speaking part has always been poorer than the Mandarin speaking part, over 90% of the people in Hong Kong and Macau want to return to their respected European countries, Tibet wants to be independent, etc, etc. This is the perfect time to capitalise on this opportunity.

If a crisis ever happens in the Philippines, we wouldn't want other countries to "capitalize", or encourage secession of Mindanao don't we? Unless Kris Aquino gets elected, then we all move to Mindanao and demand secession.
[align=center]
Federation of Eminral RepublicPederasyon ng Republika ng Eminral
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Benshir
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Postby Benshir » Thu May 15, 2014 11:22 am

Nationalist Eminral Republic wrote:If a crisis ever happens in the Philippines, we wouldn't want other countries to "capitalize", or encourage secession of Mindanao don't we? Unless Kris Aquino gets elected, then we all move to Mindanao and demand secession.

The moment this happens Eminral, the PRC will go from bully to liberator.
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Kvatchdom
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Postby Kvatchdom » Thu May 15, 2014 11:28 am

I have a filipino friend, so uh, should I be a part of this
boo
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Nationalist Eminral Republic
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Founded: Jun 24, 2012
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Postby Nationalist Eminral Republic » Thu May 15, 2014 12:33 pm

Kvatchdom wrote:I have a filipino friend, so uh, should I be a part of this

Welcome :p

Are you particularly interested in anything about Philippines? (culture, history, language, etc..)

Benshir wrote:
Nationalist Eminral Republic wrote:If a crisis ever happens in the Philippines, we wouldn't want other countries to "capitalize", or encourage secession of Mindanao don't we? Unless Kris Aquino gets elected, then we all move to Mindanao and demand secession.

The moment this happens Eminral, the PRC will go from bully to liberator.

I still don't want Chinese boots on Philippine soil, even with Krissy as the President. I imagine they'll be digging their own graves. Yes we may have a weak military, but in terms of resistance, its not gonna go well.
Last edited by Nationalist Eminral Republic on Thu May 15, 2014 12:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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エミンラル共和連邦 Federación de la República Eminral

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The Republic of Pantalleria
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Postby The Republic of Pantalleria » Fri May 16, 2014 4:12 pm

Nationalist Eminral Republic wrote:
The Republic of Pantalleria wrote:Sigh... Well I think that they were wrong, what they should have done was increase discord among the people in China, for example, the Cantonese speaking part has always been poorer than the Mandarin speaking part, over 90% of the people in Hong Kong and Macau want to return to their respected European countries, Tibet wants to be independent, etc, etc. This is the perfect time to capitalise on this opportunity.

If a crisis ever happens in the Philippines, we wouldn't want other countries to "capitalize", or encourage secession of Mindanao don't we? Unless Kris Aquino gets elected, then we all move to Mindanao and demand secession.

Even though I agree with the final statement, the first one is unfounded as China invaded Tibet which was an independent state, as opposed to us who already had Mindanao for centuries.
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The Republic of Pantalleria
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Ex-Nation

Postby The Republic of Pantalleria » Fri May 16, 2014 4:13 pm

Nationalist Eminral Republic wrote:
Kvatchdom wrote:I have a filipino friend, so uh, should I be a part of this

Welcome :p

Are you particularly interested in anything about Philippines? (culture, history, language, etc..)

Benshir wrote:The moment this happens Eminral, the PRC will go from bully to liberator.

I still don't want Chinese boots on Philippine soil, even with Krissy as the President. I imagine they'll be digging their own graves. Yes we may have a weak military, but in terms of resistance, its not gonna go well.

Well I want those boots off or else...
The Pantallerian Economy and Other Details

The Pantallerian Bureau of Tourism: Treading on maggots since we got our magnificent go go boots.

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Central and Eastern Visayas
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Postby Central and Eastern Visayas » Sat May 17, 2014 12:23 am

Nationalist Eminral Republic wrote:
The Republic of Pantalleria wrote:Sigh... Well I think that they were wrong, what they should have done was increase discord among the people in China, for example, the Cantonese speaking part has always been poorer than the Mandarin speaking part, over 90% of the people in Hong Kong and Macau want to return to their respected European countries, Tibet wants to be independent, etc, etc. This is the perfect time to capitalise on this opportunity.

If a crisis ever happens in the Philippines, we wouldn't want other countries to "capitalize", or encourage secession of Mindanao don't we? Unless Kris Aquino gets elected, then we all move to Mindanao and demand secession.

And what if the first regions demanding secession are not in Mindanao?
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The Republic of Pantalleria
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Postby The Republic of Pantalleria » Sat May 17, 2014 7:33 pm

Central and Eastern Visayas wrote:
Nationalist Eminral Republic wrote:If a crisis ever happens in the Philippines, we wouldn't want other countries to "capitalize", or encourage secession of Mindanao don't we? Unless Kris Aquino gets elected, then we all move to Mindanao and demand secession.

And what if the first regions demanding secession are not in Mindanao?

What do you mean?
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Vedria
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Postby Vedria » Sun May 18, 2014 2:46 am

The Republic of Pantalleria wrote:
Central and Eastern Visayas wrote:And what if the first regions demanding secession are not in Mindanao?

What do you mean?


I'd start a revolution right here in my house if she got elected. :lol:
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Emilio Aguinaldo
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Founded: Jan 05, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Emilio Aguinaldo » Sun May 18, 2014 3:14 am

Hmmm. Should Antonia Luna be the national hero or Jose Rizal?
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Benshir
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Founded: Mar 13, 2014
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Postby Benshir » Sun May 18, 2014 3:16 am

Emilio Aguinaldo wrote:Hmmm. Should Antonia Luna be the national hero or Jose Rizal?

I'd prefer Luna, to be honest. I just can't perish the thought of the national hero being a womanizer.
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Emilio Aguinaldo
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Postby Emilio Aguinaldo » Sun May 18, 2014 3:18 am

Benshir wrote:
Emilio Aguinaldo wrote:Hmmm. Should Antonia Luna be the national hero or Jose Rizal?

I'd prefer Luna, to be honest. I just can't perish the thought of the national hero being a womanizer.

Also he's the sole reason for the formidable defence of the North in the FilAm war.
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Emilio Aguinaldo
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Postby Emilio Aguinaldo » Sun May 18, 2014 3:21 am

The Republic of Pantalleria wrote:
Nationalist Eminral Republic wrote:If a crisis ever happens in the Philippines, we wouldn't want other countries to "capitalize", or encourage secession of Mindanao don't we? Unless Kris Aquino gets elected, then we all move to Mindanao and demand secession.

Even though I agree with the final statement, the first one is unfounded as China invaded Tibet which was an independent state, as opposed to us who already had Mindanao for centuries.

Invading any Hispanic influenced countries is always a bad idea. See: Mexico, Spain, Philippines. Mexican-American war, Napoleonic wars, WWII respectively.
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Benshir
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Founded: Mar 13, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Benshir » Sun May 18, 2014 3:21 am

Emilio Aguinaldo wrote:Also he's the sole reason for the formidable defence of the North in the FilAm war.

Unfortunately not too many are educated on that part, mainly because the Fil-Am war wouldn't sit well with our popularly held national opinion, however ill-informed, that the US made us a free, democratic-loving nation finally unbound from the Spanish's imperialist yoke.

He was an educated man and I admire him for that, but what I do also find interesting is how he never directly pushed for Philippine independence from Spain.
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Emilio Aguinaldo
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Postby Emilio Aguinaldo » Sun May 18, 2014 3:24 am

Benshir wrote:
Emilio Aguinaldo wrote:Also he's the sole reason for the formidable defence of the North in the FilAm war.

1. Unfortunately not too many are educated on that part, mainly because the Fil-Am war wouldn't sit well with our popularly held national opinion, however ill-informed, that the US made us a free, democratic-loving nation finally unbound from the Spanish's imperialist yoke.

2. He was an educated man and I admire him for that, but what I do also find interesting is how he never directly pushed for Philippine independence from Spain.

1. Well, you did hate them...until you realised that they were better conquerors than the we ever would.
2. If I remember correctly he pushed for statehood from the motherland?
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Benshir
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Postby Benshir » Sun May 18, 2014 3:25 am

Emilio Aguinaldo wrote:If I remember correctly he pushed for statehood from the motherland?

Really? IIRC he pushed for autonomy as a province.
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Emilio Aguinaldo
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Postby Emilio Aguinaldo » Sun May 18, 2014 3:27 am

Benshir wrote:
Emilio Aguinaldo wrote:If I remember correctly he pushed for statehood from the motherland?

Really? IIRC he pushed for autonomy as a province.

Which is also statehood. Spain has a specialty of the "You-can-do-whatever-you-want-with-your-state-you-just-need-to-pay-taxes-to-the-capital" type of Givernment.
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