Nigeria denies fundamental rights to homosexuals

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Pretty much. If the Nigerian government wants to disregard the threat and force us to go to war, any casualties from that point on is on them, and the winning country/ies can ask for reparations. However, threatening to go to war is enough to make most nations comply if your nation is a more powerful one.

We should probably station a few aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines off their coast for good measure.

Not really, that would only piss off the government because that's a flagrant declaration of war, stationing troops in their national waters.

Just making an official statement of "cease or be prepared to go to war" is enough after diplomatic and other sanctions have been exhausted. There's no need to go FUBAR on them.

[Swedish Realm]

Just threaten them into submission? I see what you're getting at, but nobody has to die.

Pretty much. If the Nigerian government wants to disregard the threat and force us to go to war, any casualties from that point on is on them, and the winning country/ies can ask for reparations. However, threatening to go to war is enough to make most nations comply if your nation is a more powerful one and they disregard any other diplomatic solutions.

And I would see of all nations doing this, France or USA, not Sweden. But their allies would also crush the Nigerians with ease.

[Magna Libero]

Repeal or reform it. It's just that simple. Maybe there is a new political party in office or new political times.

Wrong. If Nigeria wishes to keep flagrantly violating international agreements they are sworn to adhere to, they can leave the UN.

Then leave it. What stops them from doing that?

The UN and foreign aid is just a waste of resources, after all.

[Luveria]

Wrong. If Nigeria wishes to keep flagrantly violating international agreements they are sworn to adhere to, they can leave the UN.

Then leave it. What stops them from doing that?

The UN and foreign aid is just a waste of resources, after all.

They can leave. Nigeria doesn't want to. They want to have all the benefits of UN membership while refusing to do anything they are required to do as a member.

[Luveria]

We should probably station a few aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines off their coast for good measure.

Not really, that would only piss off the government because that's a flagrant declaration of war, stationing troops in their national waters.

Just making an official statement of "cease or be prepared to go to war" is enough after diplomatic and other sanctions have been exhausted. There's no need to go FUBAR on them.

Just outside of their national waters is fine.

[Swedish Realm]

Not really, that would only piss off the government because that's a flagrant declaration of war, stationing troops in their national waters.

Just making an official statement of "cease or be prepared to go to war" is enough after diplomatic and other sanctions have been exhausted. There's no need to go FUBAR on them.

Just outside of their national waters is fine.

That would still be a declaration of war, Diplomacy first, war second. Come on now, let's not be so barbaric.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I mean "flex your military muscle" as just showing them your military might and that you can crush them if they don't comply.

militarism should be left only as the last recourse of action. If you can win them over by diplomacy then that is great, if not next comes economic sanctions and immigration restrictions, and so on and so forth until the last thing you have is threaten with military action.

Are you serious? This would be like nuke Monaco or something, because they have banned smoking in public areas.

I am just stipulating the usual path of Foreign Relations:

You begin with Diplomacy
You follow up with Sanctions
Did it work?
Yes. Stop and try to lift the sanctions.
No? Place Visa restrictions

Did Visa Restrictions work?
Yes > Lift Restrictions and Sanctions
No > Follow up with more sanctions and restrictions, including embargoes

Have you exhausted all recourses of action?
Yes > Threaten with Military action.
No > Keep throwing limiters at them to make their lives miserable until they comply.

Did they listen to you when you threatened to use Military actions?
Yes > Stop right there and try to restore good relations with them
No > Invade the country.

[Luveria]

Just outside of their national waters is fine.

That would still be a declaration of war, Diplomacy first, war second. Come on now, let's not be so barbaric.

It's not a declaration of war. The aircraft carriers just happen to be there while asking Nigeria to reverse its latest law.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

That would still be a declaration of war, Diplomacy first, war second. Come on now, let's not be so barbaric.

It's not a declaration of war. The aircraft carriers just happen to be there while asking Nigeria to reverse its latest law.

It would still be seen as an aggressive action by the international community.

[Imperium Sidhicum]

Don't you guys love foreign relations?

No. I would prefer there was only one country, so foreign relations would not exist.

I love how some people here follow the mentality of "we are so civilized we know how things should be handled better than anybody, and it's our moral duty to civilize the poor ignorant savages for their own good, whether they want it or not", and yet vehemently deny any accusations of cultural bigotry.

Do provide examples of who has been saying Nigerians are ignorant savages.

The general attitude of pro-LGBT majority on this debate seems to imply that. Apparently some folks just can't stomach the idea that there are people in the world who think differently than them, nor have any obligation to think like them. Some of the comments I've been reading here indicate that should their authors have any say about it, the entire Western world should be going to liberate Nigeria with the force of arms, by Jingo.

Don't you find it a bit ironic that the same people who are so vocal about defending freedoms and rights are so willing to violate the sovereign rights of an entire nation simply because they happen to disagree with that nation's views on morality and homosexuality in particular? If given a chance, I'm sure they would make even a certain Adolf proud...

[Luveria]

It's not a declaration of war. The aircraft carriers just happen to be there while asking Nigeria to reverse its latest law.

It would still be seen as an aggressive action by the international community.

So?

No. I would prefer there was only one country, so foreign relations would not exist.



Do provide examples of who has been saying Nigerians are ignorant savages.

The general attitude of pro-LGBT majority on this debate seems to imply that. Apparently some folks just can't stomach the idea that there are people in the world who think differently than them, nor have any obligation to think like them. Some of the comments I've been reading here indicate that should their authors have any say about it, the entire Western world should be going to liberate Nigeria with the force of arms, by Jingo.

Don't you find it a bit ironic that the same people who are so vocal about defending freedoms and rights are so willing to violate the sovereign rights of an entire nation simply because they happen to disagree with that nation's views on morality and homosexuality in particular? If given a chance, I'm sure they would make even a certain Adolf proud...

The general attitude of certain posters in this thread seems to be wanting to ignore how Nigeria signed the UDHR.

[Themiclesia]

This is almost venturing into the realm of thoughtcrime.

If indeed the Nigerian people feel so inclined to punish homosexuality, then they should punish the manifest actions of homosexuality, not affection itself.

If homosexuality is prohibited, then what next?

[Ostroeuropa]

No. I would prefer there was only one country, so foreign relations would not exist.



Do provide examples of who has been saying Nigerians are ignorant savages.

The general attitude of pro-LGBT majority on this debate seems to imply that. Apparently some folks just can't stomach the idea that there are people in the world who think differently than them, nor have any obligation to think like them. Some of the comments I've been reading here indicate that should their authors have any say about it, the entire Western world should be going to liberate Nigeria with the force of arms, by Jingo.

Don't you find it a bit ironic that the same people who are so vocal about defending freedoms and rights are so willing to violate the sovereign rights of an entire nation simply because they happen to disagree with that nation's views on morality and homosexuality in particular? If given a chance, I'm sure they would make even a certain Adolf proud...

States rights (to slavery) was no different and requires only one response.

"A states right to what, sir?"

[Magna Libero]

Are you serious? This would be like nuke Monaco or something, because they have banned smoking in public areas.

I am just stipulating the usual path of Foreign Relations:

You begin with Diplomacy
You follow up with Sanctions
Did it work?
Yes. Stop and try to lift the sanctions.
No? Place Visa restrictions

Did Visa Restrictions work?
Yes > Lift Restrictions and Sanctions
No > Follow up with more sanctions and restrictions, including embargoes

Have you exhausted all recourses of action?
Yes > Threaten with Military action.
No > Keep throwing limiters at them to make their lives miserable until they comply.

Did they listen to you when you threatened to use Military actions?
Yes > Stop right there and try to restore good relations with them
No > Invade the country.

Freaking barbaric. Start a war just because a few nations disagree on a law. ON A LAW?! What stops Nigeria from responding with militarist actions to those unjustified requirements.

[Luveria]

This is almost venturing into the realm of thoughtcrime.

If indeed the Nigerian people feel so inclined to punish homosexuality, then they should punish the manifest actions of homosexuality, not affection itself.

If homosexuality is prohibited, then what next?

Being intersex.

Seriously. Nigeria is already rounding up people who have both a penis and vagina and arresting them for that.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

It would still be seen as an aggressive action by the international community.

So?

If anything you want to sound rational when making Foreign Policy decisions. Sending carriers and subs outside of international waters and near a country makes you look like a warmonger, and the international community does not see that too kindly.

[Ostroeuropa]

So?

If anything you want to sound rational when making Foreign Policy decisions. Sending carriers and subs outside of international waters and near a country makes you look like a warmonger, and the international community does not see that too kindly.

I'm arguing that the international community needs to change it's attitude.
Specifically, the democratic nations need to change their attitude.

[Luveria]

So?

If anything you want to sound rational when making Foreign Policy decisions. Sending carriers and subs outside of international waters and near a country makes you look like a warmonger, and the international community does not see that too kindly.

Avoiding a war requires a supreme display of force. Otherwise, Nigeria will think you're bluffing and they will try to call you out on it.

[Sealand of America]

I hate it when country tries to implement their own cultural values within their own borders. After all the trouble of imposing imperialism on African nations how dare they not adhere to our superior western values.

[Priory Academy USSR]

Just threaten them into submission? I see what you're getting at, but nobody has to die.

Pretty much. If the Nigerian government wants to disregard the threat and force us to go to war, any casualties from that point on is on them, and the winning country/ies can ask for reparations. However, threatening to go to war is enough to make most nations comply if your nation is a more powerful one and they disregard any other diplomatic solutions.

That wouldn't help. As it seems (by the very fact that this law has been passed) that a majority of Nigerians are in support of this law, then there's nothing to stop them prosecuting homosexuals informally while the police turn a blind eye, even if there are no official laws against homosexuality.
The only solution is to change people's attitudes towards homosexuality, because otherwise homophobia will almost certainly manifest itself outside of the law courts if that path becomes blocked. How to do that? Well, I'll leave that to someone else.

[Luveria]

I hate it when s country tries to implement their own cultural values within their own borders. After all the trouble of imposing imperialism on African nation how dare they not adhere to our superior western values.

Oh, again. Great.

The UDHR is over here, this way.

http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/

Yes, that same UDHR Nigeria signed to adhere to the principles of.

Try harder.

[Magna Libero]

If anything you want to sound rational when making Foreign Policy decisions. Sending carriers and subs outside of international waters and near a country makes you look like a warmonger, and the international community does not see that too kindly.

I'm arguing that the international community needs to change it's attitude.
Specifically, the democratic nations need to change their attitude.

"Show them dirty Nigerians and international community sum democracy?"

Bush would be proud of you.

[Themiclesia]

This is almost venturing into the realm of thoughtcrime.

If indeed the Nigerian people feel so inclined to punish homosexuality, then they should punish the manifest actions of homosexuality, not affection itself.

If homosexuality is prohibited, then what next?

Being intersex.

Seriously. Nigeria is already rounding up people who have both a penis and vagina and arresting them for that.

Nigeria = Airstrip Two, I believe.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Freaking barbaric. Start a war just because a few nations disagree on a law. ON A LAW?! What stops Nigeria from responding with militarist actions to those unjustified requirements.

Usually you hope diplomacy and sanctions work. War is the last thing any Foreign Relations expert would advise. It's not above them to suggest it, but most countries and Foreign Relations specialists hope that they don't have to go to war.

[Luveria]

I'm arguing that the international community needs to change it's attitude.
Specifically, the democratic nations need to change their attitude.

"Show them dirty Nigerians and international community sum democracy?"

Bush would be proud of you.

You say that like it's a bad thing.