Nigeria denies fundamental rights to homosexuals

[Luveria]

Because your country is part of an organization dedicated to human rights. If you don't want it to be "your fight" then get Sweden to leave the UN. It's hypocritical and dishonest for a country to sign a paper proclaiming defending international human rights while wanting no part of it.

But it's foolish to send Swedish men and women to a country to defend 2 percent of the population.

No one has been advocating that so far.

[The New Lowlands]

Let the German citizens and the Jews handle the holocaust, it isn't our fight.

Horrible analogy.

No, not really.

Do you know the Phoney War?

French Army and B.E.F. just waiting on the border, and they didn't march through the unfinished, practically unmanned Nazi lines because that would be taking the fight to the enemy.

[Lost heros]

Let the German citizens and the Jews handle the holocaust, it isn't our fight.

Horrible analogy.

Nope, both are organized legal discriminations of a minority.

[Luveria]

All the more reason to use armed intervention.

How has the fact that this is a stupid idea not sunk in yet? Let me put in plain terms, it will be five times more expensive than Iraq, there will be five times as many casualties as Iraq, there will as usual be an ever growing stream of mujaheddin to take up arms and pro-long the conflict, and most importantly, it won't accomplish anything aside from turning a lot of nations against the US. The US and the rest of the western world has tolerated crap like this for literal decades, Nigeria is probably the 30th nation in Africa to take this stance not to mention the more extreme parts of the middle east. Do they get an invasion too?

I will take a guess you want the UN to do nothing?

[Swedish Realm]

I am a totalitarian on a national scale, not international one. I beleive a government has the right to use violence to suppress political and social movements that are perceived as dangerous.

Like LGBT rights movements?

If it's a violent Homosexual movement, then suppress the hell out of it.

[Ostroeuropa]

But it's foolish to send Swedish men and women to a country to defend 2 percent of the population.

No one has been advocating that so far.

Indeed.
It's 10%.
Plus the number of politically disatisfactory people who get declared homosexuals.
Plus all the liberals of Nigeria who will probably end up in meetings with homosexuals to conspire against the government (And are thus running afoul of this law)

[The New Lowlands]

Like LGBT rights movements?

If it's a violent Homosexual movement, then suppress the hell out of it.

But it's not.

[United Misotheist]

Let the citizens and the Homosexual community handle it, it isn't our fight.

Let the German citizens and the Jews handle the holocaust, it isn't our fight.

WW2 wasnt because of the HOLOCAUST. Jesus what world history class did you take. Germany started punishment of the Jews in the 1930's, America only declared war because it was attacked on a major naval base by the Empire of Japan. On that day Germany and Italy declared war on the US. Germany invaded poland in 1939, thats what started WW2.

[Risottia]

Meh, it's Nigeria. What do you expect? There's a long way to go before gays will be accepted there, you gotta change cultural attitudes and so on.


Or in a giant left-wing circlejerk with people saying how evil Nigeria and everyone who support it are. As we're in NSG, I think that's much more likely.

I'm amused that you consider basic respect for the humanity of gay people to be a left-wing position. Not surprised. Just amused.

Which is weird, considering how homosexuality was for a long time illegal in the left-wing, authoritarian Soviet Union.
While the right-wing German Liberals had a certain Guido Westerwelle as vice-PM in the last term.

Hippo should quit insulting that part of the right-wing that actually cares for people's rights and start calling himself an Authoritarian.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

The U.S. Public is weary of war though, so I do understand his point of view.

As a History major with an emphasis on Foreign Relations though I think it's too late to step back and be isolationists though.

You don't get it. Misotheist is a warmonger. He loves war. It's only when it's intervention to protect LGBT people he suddenly goes ultra-pacifistic and gives passionate speeches about the virtues of finding diplomatic solutions.

I am not for war unless it's the last recourse myself.

However, if this is true that Misotheist is a warmonger, then he is just being logically inconsistent and not a reflection of the American Public - which IS the opinion that people are sick of wars here in the U.S.

During the Syria affair many people were against going to Syria to intervene and we were all relaxed when Putin handled the situation because we did not want to go to war again just after coming out of two fronts.

[Luveria]

Like LGBT rights movements?

If it's a violent Homosexual movement, then suppress the hell out of it.

Or you could just stop oppressing LGBT people and grant them equal rights so there isn't any need for a homosexual rights movement.

[Swedish Realm]

But it's foolish to send Swedish men and women to a country to defend 2 percent of the population.

No one has been advocating that so far.

And it's just as foolish to bomb the hell out of a country and slaughter innocents on a larger scale.

[Olivaero]

Because your country is part of an organization dedicated to human rights. If you don't want it to be "your fight" then get Sweden to leave the UN. It's hypocritical and dishonest for a country to sign a paper proclaiming defending international human rights while wanting no part of it.

But it's foolish to send Swedish men and women to a country to defend 2 percent of the population.

That's like 3.3 milllion people... thats 30+% of the population of Sweden.

[Ostroeuropa]

I'm amused that you consider basic respect for the humanity of gay people to be a left-wing position. Not surprised. Just amused.

Which is weird, considering how homosexuality was for a long time illegal in the left-wing, authoritarian Soviet Union.
While the right-wing German Liberals had a certain Guido Westerwelle as vice-PM in the last term.

Hippo should quit insulting that part of the right-wing that actually cares for people's rights and start calling himself an Authoritarian.

I've made no bones about the fact that i'm basically a conservative hanging out with the socialists until my side gets it's shit together and stops being so crazy free market and crazy oppressive.

If/When they do i'll depart and join the conservatives and start arguing that maybe nationalizing shit isn't a good idea and that business is actually pretty ok.

[Luveria]

No one has been advocating that so far.

And it's just as foolish to bomb the hell out of a country and slaughter innocents on a larger scale.

Not at all if it puts a stop to that country slaughtering its own innocent citizens.

[Swedish Realm]

If it's a violent Homosexual movement, then suppress the hell out of it.

But it's not.

Exactly, that's a different case.

[Vitaphone Racing]

How has the fact that this is a stupid idea not sunk in yet? Let me put in plain terms, it will be five times more expensive than Iraq, there will be five times as many casualties as Iraq, there will as usual be an ever growing stream of mujaheddin to take up arms and pro-long the conflict, and most importantly, it won't accomplish anything aside from turning a lot of nations against the US. The US and the rest of the western world has tolerated crap like this for literal decades, Nigeria is probably the 30th nation in Africa to take this stance not to mention the more extreme parts of the middle east. Do they get an invasion too?

I will take a guess you want the UN to do nothing?

Believe it or not, doing nothing is a lot better than making something worse. The last I checked, I'm pretty sure SA abandoned apartheid without the presence of the USMC in their capital.

[The New Lowlands]

Let the German citizens and the Jews handle the holocaust, it isn't our fight.

WW2 wasnt because of the HOLOCAUST. Jesus what world history class did you take. Germany started punishment of the Jews in the 1930's, America declared war because it was attacked on a major naval base by the Empire of Japan. On that day Germany and Italy declared war on the US. Germany invaded poland in 1939, thats what started WW2.

I don't like the cut of your jib.
1) Punishment? Really? Punishment implies they did something wrong.
2) The United States was already supporting the Allies with supplies and equipment, including the 'ebul godless communists' of the U.S.S.R.
3) WW2 can easily be attributed to the failure of the Allies to intervene against Hitler at the right time.

[Luveria]

I will take a guess you want the UN to do nothing?

Believe it or not, doing nothing is a lot better than making something worse. The last I checked, I'm pretty sure SA abandoned apartheid without the presence of the USMC in their capital.

I see you forget South Africa had severe economic sanctions against it.

[G-Tech Corporation]

Which is
a) a totally different thing from a right, and
b) unlikely to happen where people mix the concept of "sin" with the concept of "crime".

I would challenge you to find a crime that isn't a sin- a sin does not necessarily have to be a crime, but the opposite is categorically true.

Where exactly is theft defined as a social sin? Quit weaseling around.

My bad, sometimes it is called larceny.

That's exactly what you claimed about Nigeria. They think homosexuality is a sin hence they are perfectly free to jail homosexuals.

I see a goalpost rolling down the hill. Wasn't it yours by any chance?

Correction: they think homosexuality is a sin and a crime, and therefore they are perfectly free to jail homosexuals.

They also think lying is a sin, via common Christian dogma. They do not, however, consider it a crime except for in certain circumstances, and thus they do not jail individuals for it as a general rule.

Too bad that there's no such thing as a right to perjury.

And there is a right to commission of criminal acts?

Wrong. The being homosexual is a birth status or a personal opinion, or a combination of both. "Other opinion" and "other status" are protected.

UNDHR

Article 2
Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

Ah, I see. So the distinction of committing a criminal act is covered under "other status"? Should I be phoning the PM to tell him to set all the prisoners free, as the system is abrogating their rights?

Freedom from persecution is.

Article 7

All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.

The Nigerian law does not discriminate.

If you happen to have an inclination to commit LGBT acts and act upon that inclination via affection, indecency, actual sexual intercourse, etc, you can be prosecuted. If you don't have an inclination to commit LGBT acts and yet still commit LGBTesque affection, indecency, or sexual intercourse, etc. you can be prosecuted. The law holds both persons equal without any discrimination, and equal protection.

Article 12

No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

You missed the vital part of this statement- the word "arbitrary". Search and seizure, questioning of family members, the search of a home or correspondence, are all reasonable and accepted responses to criminal behavior, and given homosexuality is defined as criminal behavior by the state of Nigeria, interference with his privacy etc. is not an abrogation of his rights in the light of criminal behavior.

Article 19

Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

Note that it specifies holding the opinion and exchanging information as the protected rights; to my reading of the Nigerian law, homosexual inclination is not punishable, but rather acting upon that inclination.

Article 20

1. Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association.
2. No one may be compelled to belong to an association.

"Peaceful" has been many years ago defined to not include "criminal". Or have you never heard of "consorting" as a crime?

Article 30

Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein.[/i]

And the Nigerian law infringes clearly on the above articles.

As I've pointed out, Nigerian law does not conflict with the above articles, if one accepts the state's ability to determine its own penal code. I do not argue that the law will not be used in a way that may violate the freedoms secured in the articles you cited; I do however, note that it is just as subject to misuse as any other law, despite being in letter within the conflicts of the Declaration.

[Swedish Realm]

But it's foolish to send Swedish men and women to a country to defend 2 percent of the population.

That's like 3.3 milllion people... thats 30+% of the population of Sweden.

So you think we should go over there right? Yeah, let's not say we did. Like I said, let them handle their problems.

[The New Lowlands]

Which is weird, considering how homosexuality was for a long time illegal in the left-wing, authoritarian Soviet Union.
While the right-wing German Liberals had a certain Guido Westerwelle as vice-PM in the last term.

Hippo should quit insulting that part of the right-wing that actually cares for people's rights and start calling himself an Authoritarian.

I've made no bones about the fact that i'm basically a conservative hanging out with the socialists until my side gets it's shit together and stops being so crazy free market and crazy oppressive.

If/When they do i'll depart and join the conservatives and start arguing that maybe nationalizing shit isn't a good idea and that business is actually pretty ok.

Isn't that called the centre-left?

[Ostroeuropa]

I will take a guess you want the UN to do nothing?

Believe it or not, doing nothing is a lot better than making something worse. The last I checked, I'm pretty sure SA abandoned apartheid without the presence of the USMC in their capital.

There were however, sanctions and boycotts.

[Vitaphone Racing]

Believe it or not, doing nothing is a lot better than making something worse. The last I checked, I'm pretty sure SA abandoned apartheid without the presence of the USMC in their capital.

I see you forget South Africa had severe economic sanctions against it.

Not sure how you saw that, considering I simply said they abandoned apartheid without the presence of the USMC in their capital. If this is you finally putting to rest the military occupation idea, good I'll take it.

[Ostroeuropa]

I've made no bones about the fact that i'm basically a conservative hanging out with the socialists until my side gets it's shit together and stops being so crazy free market and crazy oppressive.

If/When they do i'll depart and join the conservatives and start arguing that maybe nationalizing shit isn't a good idea and that business is actually pretty ok.

Isn't that called the centre-left?

The centre-left is a term people use to describe conservatives who realized other conservatives were going a little nuts.