Nigeria denies fundamental rights to homosexuals

[The New Lowlands]

It was a complete failure and a political vacuum which more radicals could take up for grabs, which forced us to spend almost a decade there you mean.

You're missing the point that a warmongering dictator is often very bad for regional stability, just as Nigeria refusing to allow LGBT citizens to get AIDs treatment is creating an international health situation that needs to be addressed.

... By bombing a democratic nation, right.

[Luveria]

I am a anti-war because liberals are using this an excuse to go in to a country, destroy through war, then establish a puppet government. War is not the answer, diplomacy is the answer. The liberal agenda needs to stop.

Are you just using liberal to mean "people who support democracy" here? It doesn't really make sense any other way.

It's quite funny he's been ranting about the "liberal agenda" to Neocons like me and Ostro.

[Swedish Realm]

You're right, diplomacy might be the key. Going to fight in a country to save like 2 percent of the population is fucking pointless. Left wingers show too much compassion for the LGBT community and not their military. I highly doubt our troops want to be sent out to fight for 2 percent a nation.

What else did they sign up for?

A job to pay their family, leaving is hard on a soldier. They do not all like to be sent out to Nigeria just to be killed fighting for 2 percent of the population, don't you remember Somalia and the Battle of Mogafishu? Lives wasted for what?

[Luveria]

You're missing the point that a warmongering dictator is often very bad for regional stability, just as Nigeria refusing to allow LGBT citizens to get AIDs treatment is creating an international health situation that needs to be addressed.

... By bombing a democratic nation, right.

If that would successfully accomplish the objectives of the intervention, absolutely.

[United Misotheist]

You're right, diplomacy might be the key. Going to fight in a country to save like 2 percent of the population is fucking pointless. Left wingers show too much compassion for the LGBT community and not their military. I highly doubt our troops want to be sent out to fight for 2 percent a nation.

What else did they sign up for?

Our military is for OUR defence only. Not defence of a bunch a foreigners. We dont need to protect foreigners, we need to our protect country. We need to concentrate on defence instead of offensive. They signed to fight for THEIR country, NOT a foreign minority.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Well this is grand.

You obviously have no idea how the aftermath of war works. Homophobes are not going to go against their government. Oh no, they will hate and make life miserable for LGBT people down in Nigeria, and then you just say "fuck them, we did our job, we showed the world. Good fucking job everyone" while we will hear more cases about LGBT people getting killed or raped.

If I could turn them into Liberals overnight I would.
We can't uproot their culture, it has to grow organically.
What we CAN do is trim it if it gets out of line.

It WILL get out of line, that's the point.

Sending troops achieves nothing but make the losers pissed off and be cruel towards the people or things the winners fought the war for.

[Ostroeuropa]

Are you just using liberal to mean "people who support democracy" here? It doesn't really make sense any other way.

It's quite funny he's been ranting about the "liberal agenda" to Neocons like me and Ostro.

To be fair, it's a liberal ideology.
It's Liberals who got fucking sick of the pacifism and defeatism sweeping the left wing and decided to join the Republican party to fight the soviets.

These days it's the Theocrats, and that makes our republican friends slightly uncomfortable bedfellows, so luckily the democratic establishment is getting back in the game with Obama and Clinton being pro-interventions.

[Swedish Realm]

What else did they sign up for?

Our military is for OUR defence only. Not defence of a bunch a foreigners. We dont need to protect foreigners, we need to our protect country. We need to concentrate on defence instead of offensive. They signed to fight for THEIR country, NOT a foreign minority.

France could learn from that. Let them rebel, not send out our own fucking troops.

[Blackledge]

It was. Saddam was removed. He was bad for regional stability.

The area is arguably more unstable since his removal, however. His own state is objectively more unstable. Fallujah, anyone?

But that's an issue for another thread.

[The New Lowlands]

What else did they sign up for?

A job to pay their family, leaving is hard on a soldier. They do not all like to be sent out to Nigeria just to be killed fighting for 2 percent of the population, don't you remember Somalia and the Battle of Mogafishu? Lives wasted for what?

Lives wasted because the U.S. Secretary of Defence failed to approve the deployment of armoured vehicles.

[Risottia]

Of course. Courts don't have rights.

Courts do, however, have the responsibility to adjudicate matters of civil or criminal law in a fair and dispassionate manner.

Which is
a) a totally different thing from a right, and
b) unlikely to happen where people mix the concept of "sin" with the concept of "crime".

Armed intervention? No.
International sanctions? Yes.

Which you may see in the coming days.

And non-Aryanness was, as defined by the beliefs of the majority of the German people, a sin, akin to lying, theft, murder, adultery, and the like.

So the fact that theft is currently, as defined by the beliefs of the majority of the population of the world, a sin, akin to lying, murder, etc. does not mean theft is defined as a social sin?

Where exactly is theft defined as a social sin? Quit weaseling around.

By the way, congratulations on becoming a theocracy, where SIN = jail. Why worry with crime when you have sin?

Except sin =/= jail in any society.

That's exactly what you claimed about Nigeria. They think homosexuality is a sin hence they are perfectly free to jail homosexuals.

I see a goalpost rolling down the hill. Wasn't it yours by any chance?

And the other countries can, at their discretion, deem that their theocratic attempts at disenfranchising a local minority is deleterious to the public good, and therefore an act that should entail international sanctions. Such as bank accounts being freezed, and money wire transfers being blocked.

Other countries can, of course, decide such. Other countries can, of course, decide that the attempts of the United Kingdom at disenfranchising a local minority of their right to perjure themselves...blahblahblah

Too bad that there's no such thing as a right to perjury.

No, it's not, as per UNDHR.
It's a gross infringement on the rights of Nigerian citizens.

Sexual orientation is not, unless one stretches terms to the point of irrelevancy, addressed in the UNDHR, and therefore is not a protected right.

Wrong. The being homosexual is a birth status or a personal opinion, or a combination of both. "Other opinion" and "other status" are protected.

UNDHR

Article 2
Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status.
Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

Poor victim of the Euroamerican cultural imperialism! The evil Westerners are all angry just because you want to trample all over your citizens' rights!

Again, the commission of criminal acts without governmental intervention is not a right.

Freedom from persecution is.

Article 7

All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.

Article 12

No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

Article 19

Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

Article 20

1. Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association.
2. No one may be compelled to belong to an association.

Article 30

Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein.

And the Nigerian law infringes clearly on the above articles.

[Luveria]

You know what I am so sick of liberals sitting behind their computer and convincing themselves they call the shots. Our troops go through alot, and liberals, communist, your all alike, all you want is international intervention and war. War causes suffering and death, more people would die than they are now. War would make things worse. It is such a small minority its not worth it. Gays make up a very small portion of Nigeria, I mean its not worth it. We should take diplomatic route, negotiate with them. Negotitian should be our priority not war, I mean you just want to see Nigeria suffer because of your own liberal agenda.

You're right, diplomacy might be the key. Going to fight in a country to save like 2 percent of the population is fucking pointless. Left wingers show too much compassion for the LGBT community and not their military. I highly doubt our troops want to be sent out to fight for 2 percent a nation.

>Implying everyone supporting intervention is a left winger.

You and your buddy Misotheist need to realize you can't keep using "liberal" and "left-winger" as terms for people you don't like.

[United Misotheist]

... By bombing a democratic nation, right.

If that would successfully accomplish the objectives of the intervention, absolutely.

Oh so killing innocent civilians is worth it? Killing thousands of people is worth it? This is a small minority and their not worth it. I mean war costs money, resources, and lives. And you know what your not one of the troops that has to go over there and fight.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

It was a complete failure and a political vacuum which more radicals could take up for grabs, which forced us to spend almost a decade there you mean.

You're missing the point that a warmongering dictator is often very bad for regional stability, just as Nigeria refusing to allow LGBT citizens to get AIDs treatment is creating an international health situation that needs to be addressed.

Kim Jong Il is a dictator who threatened us for almost a decade with radiological weapons. We also did not pay attention to him or went to topple North Korea's government because of it.

Also, health concerns are not military concerns.

[The New Lowlands]

What else did they sign up for?

Our military is for OUR defence only. Not defence of a bunch a foreigners. We dont need to protect foreigners, we need to our protect country. We need to concentrate on defence instead of offensive. They signed to fight for THEIR country, NOT a foreign minority.

Ah, yes, the 'Maginot Line' philosophy. That served us well in the Phoney War.

[Olivaero]

What else did they sign up for?

Our military is for OUR defence only. Not defence of a bunch a foreigners. We dont need to protect foreigners, we need to our protect country. We need to concentrate on defence instead of offensive. They signed to fight for THEIR country, NOT a foreign minority.

Damn it's just like the early 20th century all over again...

[Swedish Realm]

You're right, diplomacy might be the key. Going to fight in a country to save like 2 percent of the population is fucking pointless. Left wingers show too much compassion for the LGBT community and not their military. I highly doubt our troops want to be sent out to fight for 2 percent a nation.

>Implying everyone supporting intervention is a left winger.

You and your buddy Misotheist need to realize you can't keep using "liberal" and "left-winger" as terms for people you don't like.

That idea is a left wing ideology, what the hell do you expect me to say? I do not dislike you, do not imply that. But when someone believes in a left wing ideology, I am going to call them a liberal in that field.

[Luveria]

If that would successfully accomplish the objectives of the intervention, absolutely.

Oh so killing innocent civilians is worth it? Killing thousands of people is worth it? This is a small minority and their not worth it. I mean war costs money, resources, and lives. And you know what your not one of the troops that has to go over there and fight.

Hahahahaha. Hilarious. Take a look at your sig. Do you really think I'm too thick to notice you're willing to play any card possible to ensure that people are okay with Nigeria murdering LGBT citizens?

[The New Lowlands]

... By bombing a democratic nation, right.

If that would successfully accomplish the objectives of the intervention, absolutely.

But it wouldn't.

[Luveria]

>Implying everyone supporting intervention is a left winger.

You and your buddy Misotheist need to realize you can't keep using "liberal" and "left-winger" as terms for people you don't like.

That idea is a left wing ideology, what the hell do you expect me to say? I do not dislike you, do not imply that. But when someone believes in a left wing ideology, I am going to call them a liberal in that field.

I thought I'm a centrist, but whatever, you probably know me better than I do.

[Risottia]

You know what I am so sick of liberals sitting behind their computer and convincing themselves they call the shots. Our troops go through alot, and liberals, communist, your all alike, all you want is international intervention and war.

Oh I get it.
When it's about invading a country to get their oil, the US right-wing complains about the lefties being ebul pacifist commies.
When it's about international sanctions against a country to make them stop oppressing a minority, the US right-wing complains about the lefties being ebul interventionist commies.

What a sorry excuse for an argument you have there.

[Ostroeuropa]

Our military is for OUR defence only. Not defence of a bunch a foreigners. We dont need to protect foreigners, we need to our protect country. We need to concentrate on defence instead of offensive. They signed to fight for THEIR country, NOT a foreign minority.

Damn it's just like the early 20th century all over again...

The lessons of Munich end up being relearned all too often.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

What else did they sign up for?

Our military is for OUR defence only. Not defence of a bunch a foreigners. We dont need to protect foreigners, we need to our protect country. We need to concentrate on defence instead of offensive. They signed to fight for THEIR country, NOT a foreign minority.

The U.S. at least needs to keep international interests as well, hence why the U.S. Military is so powerful.

It's not easy, foreign relations.

[Luveria]

If that would successfully accomplish the objectives of the intervention, absolutely.

But it wouldn't.

We won't know until we try.

[The New Lowlands]

>Implying everyone supporting intervention is a left winger.

You and your buddy Misotheist need to realize you can't keep using "liberal" and "left-winger" as terms for people you don't like.

That idea is a left wing ideology, what the hell do you expect me to say? I do not dislike you, do not imply that. But when someone believes in a left wing ideology, I am going to call them a liberal in that field.

Foreign intervention is generally a right-wing policy.