Nigeria denies fundamental rights to homosexuals

[Ostroeuropa]

Freaking barbaric. Start a war just because a few nations disagree on a law. ON A LAW?! What stops Nigeria from responding with militarist actions to those unjustified requirements.

Usually you hope diplomacy and sanctions work. War is the last thing any Foreign Relations expert would advise. It's not above them to suggest it, but most countries and Foreign Relations specialists hope that they don't have to go to war.

Like I said.
I'm happy for those sanctions to go ahead.
I'm just not deluding myself into thinking they will work.

[Magna Libero]

I hate it when country tries to implement their own cultural values within their own borders. After all the trouble of imposing imperialism on African nations how dare they not adhere to our superior western values.

Pretty sure you aren't serious.

[Themiclesia]

The power of penalty of the state (if Nigeria can be substantially considered thus) should limited to public actions, because the state only exists in public.

Affection is not a public action, or even an action of any kind.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Pretty much. If the Nigerian government wants to disregard the threat and force us to go to war, any casualties from that point on is on them, and the winning country/ies can ask for reparations. However, threatening to go to war is enough to make most nations comply if your nation is a more powerful one and they disregard any other diplomatic solutions.

That wouldn't help. As it seems (by the very fact that this law has been passed) that a majority of Nigerians are in support of this law, then there's nothing to stop them prosecuting homosexuals informally while the police turn a blind eye, even if there are no official laws against homosexuality.

The only solution is to change people's attitudes towards homosexuality, because otherwise homophobia will almost certainly manifest itself outside of the law courts if that path becomes blocked. How to do that? Well, I'll leave that to someone else.

You are raising a good point also. That when it comes to national decisions, most countries honor the right of self-governance; and also militant actions won't help as much.

You can stop a law from becoming such through diplomatic sanctions though. However to reform the culture of Nigeria would take generations to do.

[Luveria]

Freaking barbaric. Start a war just because a few nations disagree on a law. ON A LAW?! What stops Nigeria from responding with militarist actions to those unjustified requirements.

Usually you hope diplomacy and sanctions work. War is the last thing any Foreign Relations expert would advise. It's not above them to suggest it, but most countries and Foreign Relations specialists hope that they don't have to go to war.

It won't work. You know that. 98% of the populace claiming to be opposed to the most basic of LGBT rights. You think the government that reverses this latest law will get reelected? They wouldn't. But they will get reelected again and again as long as they keep fighting against the international gay conspiracy and not giving in to the sanctions. Nothing short of an intervention will accomplish anything.

[Luveria]

The power of penalty of the state (if Nigeria can be substantially considered thus) should limited to public actions, because the state only exists in public.

Affection is not a public action, or even an action of any kind.

Two people of the same gender hugging in public (for any reason) is a display of homosexual affection in Nigeria, and will be punished.

[Magna Libero]

Freaking barbaric. Start a war just because a few nations disagree on a law. ON A LAW?! What stops Nigeria from responding with militarist actions to those unjustified requirements.

Usually you hope diplomacy and sanctions work. War is the last thing any Foreign Relations expert would advise. It's not above them to suggest it, but most countries and Foreign Relations specialists hope that they don't have to go to war.

I don't hope that diplomacy or sanctions work or that they would be used. I hope there won't be a war, because of this.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Usually you hope diplomacy and sanctions work. War is the last thing any Foreign Relations expert would advise. It's not above them to suggest it, but most countries and Foreign Relations specialists hope that they don't have to go to war.

It won't work. You know that. 98% of the populace claiming to be opposed to the most basic of LGBT rights. You think the government that reverses this latest law will get reelected? They wouldn't. But they will get reelected again and again as long as they keep fighting against the international gay conspiracy and not giving in to the sanctions. Nothing short of an intervention will accomplish anything.

I think you are missing the fact that economic sanctions, being that Nigeria depends on other nations and foreign aid, would have a huge impact on their economy that Russia and China cannot pick up the slack.

[Ostroeuropa]

It won't work. You know that. 98% of the populace claiming to be opposed to the most basic of LGBT rights. You think the government that reverses this latest law will get reelected? They wouldn't. But they will get reelected again and again as long as they keep fighting against the international gay conspiracy and not giving in to the sanctions. Nothing short of an intervention will accomplish anything.

I think you are missing the fact that economic sanctions, being that Nigeria depends on other nations and foreign aid, would have a huge impact on their economy that Russia and China cannot pick up the slack.

Do you have any precedent where sanctions have worked in a matter of civil rights where a majority of the population supported the oppression?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Usually you hope diplomacy and sanctions work. War is the last thing any Foreign Relations expert would advise. It's not above them to suggest it, but most countries and Foreign Relations specialists hope that they don't have to go to war.

I don't hope that diplomacy or sanctions work or that they would be used. I hope there won't be a war, because of this.

I don't like to think of it as there being war because I am a pacifist myself, and because the Nigerian government has the right to self-govern.

However, being that they signed the UDHR they also have an obligation with the U.N. and the international community.

[Luveria]

It won't work. You know that. 98% of the populace claiming to be opposed to the most basic of LGBT rights. You think the government that reverses this latest law will get reelected? They wouldn't. But they will get reelected again and again as long as they keep fighting against the international gay conspiracy and not giving in to the sanctions. Nothing short of an intervention will accomplish anything.

I think you are missing the fact that economic sanctions, being that Nigeria depends on other nations and foreign aid, would have a huge impact on their economy that Russia and China cannot pick up the slack.

98%.

Your sanctions would make popular martyrs out of the government that resists the "gay" demands.

[Themiclesia]

The power of penalty of the state (if Nigeria can be substantially considered thus) should limited to public actions, because the state only exists in public.

Affection is not a public action, or even an action of any kind.

Two people of the same gender hugging in public (for any reason) is a display of homosexual affection in Nigeria, and will be punished.

Then very well. If the people of Nigeria granted to their state that power, then the homosexuals have their own people to blame.

I merely state that homosexuality itself must not become a punishable offence. I am of the belief that the individual is under as much power of the state as the nation is willing to grant to the state. Since most states are composed of the collective of citizens acting in a public manner, I say that the power of the state is limited to public affairs and public offences.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I think you are missing the fact that economic sanctions, being that Nigeria depends on other nations and foreign aid, would have a huge impact on their economy that Russia and China cannot pick up the slack.

Do you have any precedent where sanctions have worked in a matter of civil rights where a majority of the population supported the oppression?

Would killing 98% of Nigerians be much better then?

[Sealand of America]

It is simple they are a sovereign nation I have said it before if you don't like their policies help relocate the minority population at your own expense. Africa does not need the West to tell them about what is moral. Been there done that. Lead to human rights violations that far exceed your minor complaints.

[Ostroeuropa]

Do you have any precedent where sanctions have worked in a matter of civil rights where a majority of the population supported the oppression?

Would killing 98% of Nigerians be much better then?

I'm betting the vast, vast majority lack the spine to fight.

[Chaunceys]

I think people should be given the option of marrying someone of the same gender. I mean its their business what they do

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I think you are missing the fact that economic sanctions, being that Nigeria depends on other nations and foreign aid, would have a huge impact on their economy that Russia and China cannot pick up the slack.

98%.

Your sanctions would make popular martyrs out of the government that resists the "gay" demands.

War would make the same effect, your point?

[Olivaero]

I don't hope that diplomacy or sanctions work or that they would be used. I hope there won't be a war, because of this.

I don't like to think of it as there being war because I am a pacifist myself, and because the Nigerian government has the right to self-govern.

However, being that they signed the UDHR they also have an obligation with the U.N. and the international community.

The bolded bit is a fucking ridiculous justification. By the same stick the Third Reich had a right to commit the holocaust as long as it didn't start invading other countries.

[Ostroeuropa]

98%.

Your sanctions would make popular martyrs out of the government that resists the "gay" demands.

War would make the same effect, your point?

It'd at least make them actual martyrs instead of figurative martyrs.

[Ostroeuropa]

I don't like to think of it as there being war because I am a pacifist myself, and because the Nigerian government has the right to self-govern.

However, being that they signed the UDHR they also have an obligation with the U.N. and the international community.

The bolded bit is a fucking ridiculous justification. By the same stick the Third Reich had a right to commit the holocaust as long as it didn't start invading other countries.

It's like I pointed out.
It's the
"States rights!" argument of the Confederacy.

The only reply necessary is
"A states right to what?"

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Would killing 98% of Nigerians be much better then?

I'm betting the vast, vast majority lack the spine to fight.

And what if you're wrong on your bets? What if the Nigerians fight to have their right to self-govern recognized and you end up killing them all? Would it be worth wiping out an entire country because of your zealous defense for LGBT rights?

[Luveria]

Two people of the same gender hugging in public (for any reason) is a display of homosexual affection in Nigeria, and will be punished.

Then very well. If the people of Nigeria granted to their state that power, then the homosexuals have their own people to blame.

I merely state that homosexuality itself must not become a punishable offence. I am of the belief that the individual is under as much power of the state as the nation is willing to grant to the state. Since most states are composed of the collective of citizens acting in a public manner, I say that the power of the state is limited to public affairs and public offences.

Homosexuality itself isn't an offense. Having a meeting with "homosexuals persons" (as in meeting two LGBT friends) results in all involved people being locked up for 10 years. Anything interpreted to be a display of affection is punished with the death penalty. "Supporting" LGBT groups is punishable. LGBT citizens including intersex people are now on police watchlists and under surveillance to be arrested the moment they do anything as minor as meet with another LGBT person.

[Olivaero]

It is simple they are a sovereign nation I have said it before if you don't like their policies help relocate the minority population at your own expense. Africa does not need the West to tell them about what is moral. Been there done that. Lead to human rights violations that far exceed your minor complaints.

"Africa" might not, but the government of Nigeria and 98% of that population clearly does.

[Magna Libero]

Do you have any precedent where sanctions have worked in a matter of civil rights where a majority of the population supported the oppression?

Would killing 98% of Nigerians be much better then?

Luveria seems to call for a full genocide in Nigeria and in the whole UN for all those, who disagree with her morals, am I right?

[Ostroeuropa]

I'm betting the vast, vast majority lack the spine to fight.

And what if you're wrong on your bets? What if the Nigerians fight to have their right to self-govern recognized and you end up killing them all? Would it be worth wiping out an entire country because of your zealous defense for LGBT rights?

Would I shoot 9 bank robbers to save 1 hostage?
Yes. If the robbers fight, they can die. I see no issue.