Gays, Putin, and Skiing! Olympics Megathread: THE POLITICS

[Regnum Dominae]

How is it "racism" to think that Russia shouldn't get a free pass on human rights just because they are Russia?

[Sibirsky]

What does Sochi Olympics have to do with Russian laws? It's a sports event.

88 nations are competing. The world's eyes are on Russia.

Perhaps you can connect the dots?

[Sibirsky]

blatant racism

[Othelos]

Forgive me, I don't think I know you, so it's not that I'm attacking you or your personality, I'm just genuinely confused: is this sarcasm/satire? I can't quite tell; your signature's positions are in contrast to your expressed views here... but some of the usual indicators of sarcasm/satire are absent (exaggerated use of roll-eyes etc).

Like, it would seem I agree with most of those you oppose... and I can't speak for them, but I'm sure they're like me: I personally am not Russophobic (to the contrary, I love Russia, I just strongly oppose its government [which is pretty much also my stance on the US and most other countries in the world tbh], and don't think my Russian equivalents should be hounded as akin to pedophiles and beaten, raped, arrested etc in the same country that about 30 years ago was a leading superpower...).

I support LGBT rights and disagree with the need for Russia's "gay propaganda" law - and of-course any anti-LGBT violence.

But with so many attacks on Russia, on a range of issues, based in part on misinformation and blatant racism - simply because Russia is hosting a sports event - it becomes impossible to properly address issues.

What does Sochi Olympics have to do with Russian laws? It's a sports event. And even with this *evil* law, people are watching the Olympics in Sochi's biggest gay club without problems - like they have for last 10 years - http://www.nj.com/olympics/index.ssf/2014/02/sochi_olympics_2014_watching_the_opening_ceremonies_from_sochis_biggest_gay_nightclub_politi.html

Apparently now it is acceptable to mix politics and sport.

But in 2008, when gold medal swimmer, Milorad Cavic wears a shirt proclaiming "Kosovo is Serbia", he is banned, fined and his world record is removed.


http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/swimming/news/story?id=3304738

When sports take place on an international level, politics is often involved.

[Occupied Deutschland]

...
What does Sochi Olympics have to do with Russian laws?
...

Gee, it's almost like it's an INTERNATIONAL competition between multiple countries.
When ONE country is involved in something it can easily be connected to that country's laws and policies. When more than one is that just becomes more likely.

It's like asking what holding the Olympics in South Africa during apartheid has to do with apartheid. A whole fucking lot because it's an international competition where those competitors are going to have to be under that country's laws.

[Liriena]

But with so many attacks on Russia, on a range of issues, based in part on misinformation and blatant racism - simply because Russia is hosting a sports event - it becomes impossible to properly address issues.

Bullshit.

What does Sochi Olympics have to do with Russian laws? It's a sports event.

A sports event in which LGBT people participate. LGBT people whose safety is not guaranteed, despite of what Vladimir "Stay away from children" Putin has repeatedly promised... while simultaneously demeaning LGBT people.

And even with this *evil* law, people are watching the Olympics in Sochi's biggest gay club without problems - like they have for last 10 years - http://www.nj.com/olympics/index.ssf/2014/02/sochi_olympics_2014_watching_the_opening_ceremonies_from_sochis_biggest_gay_nightclub_politi.html

Meanwhile, LGBT people are being arrested under this vague as fuck anti-propaganda law.
Your anecdote about the gay club is kinda cute, but it doesn't negate the havoc that this, indeed, evil law has wreaked.

Apparently now it is acceptable to mix politics and sport.

Politics and international sports events have always been mixed.

But in 2008, when gold medal swimmer, Milorad Cavic wears a shirt proclaiming "Kosovo is Serbia", he is banned, fined and his world record is removed.

(Image)
http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/swimming/news/story?id=3304738

A rather idiotic reaction, in my opinion. But then of course, the IOC is notorious for lacking a proper spine.

[Liriena]

How is it "racism" to think that Russia shouldn't get a free pass on human rights just because they are Russia?

Didn't you know?

Criticising a non-Western country = Racism

[Respawn]

It's restricted to the number of people who are actually aware of the problem. I know this is going to shock you, but not everyone is aware of the Brazilian mistreatment of indigenous peoples, mainly because the issue has practically never been brought up in even mildly reliable and prestigious international news sources, leaving only Brazilians and extremely curious foreigners to be the ones to find out.

Not really, and that is half my point. The media is fuelling everyone's anger by choosing what it wants to report. Gay rights is an emotional issue which can easily be sensationalised, unlike indigenous rights. People are more likely to care about gay parades being banned in Moscow for 100 years or whatever, than natives in Brazil having their homes and cultures completely obliterated. Some people need to get their priorities sorted.

If we are focusing on Russia, where is the anger right now about the jailing of anti-Putin dissidents? Oh no, that is too boring of a story. It's a shame that people will swallow whatever they see in the news.

Ah, yes, the international community should totally shut the fuck up and let nations hosting international events get away with violating human rights. Ignorance is truly bliss, and increasing awareness will only make it worse.

People in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks.

Except, apparently they do, given how apparently the vast majority of Russians are just as ignorant and dehumanizing in their homophobia as their celebrities, vigilantes and government officials. Since apparently they can't quite grasp what the problem is on their own, I see no problem with outsiders with a different point of view and plenty of reliable research to support it patronising them.

Yeah, I know most Russians are behind these laws. I wasn't referring to that. I was referring to the jailing of political activists, growing corruption and income inequality etc. Perhaps I should have made that more clear.

You have the right to express yourselves as hateful idiots, but the rest of the world also has the right to call you out on your bullshit.

How am I being hateful? I am for gay liberation and all, but I also respect the right for sovereign nations to make their own laws. Provided of course they are not hanging gays in the street. (which Iran is doing funnily enough, but eh, let's forget about that and shit on Russia because it's edgy and cool to).

Stop whining about people using increased attention towards a certain country to call said country out on its bullshit, and grow the fuck up.

Clearly, this conversation is going nowhere fast. I just don't think it is right to talk down other nations for what they and their people believe in. This is why anti-Americanism is so rife across the world, but that topic is for another time. Just like America was homophobic as fuck in the 50s and slowly began to liberalise, in time, the same will happen with Russia.

Anyway, Go for your life protesting about these laws after the olympics. Not that yelling on NSG will change anything but it doesn't hurt to try.

However, the Olympics made the problem even more relevant, given how LGBT people are bound to participate in this sort of international events, and now their human rights could no longer be guaranteed by the IOC

I am not sure what you mean by this. Nobody is stopping gays from participating.

[Srboslavija]

Meanwhile, LGBT people are being arrested under this vague as fuck anti-propaganda law.
Your anecdote about the gay club is kinda cute, but it doesn't negate the havoc that this, indeed, evil law has wreaked.

Do we have stats for the number of arrests as a result of this law? Previous media reports have said that this law "banning homosexuality" will result in athletes and visitors being arrested on arrival in Sochi.

I would like to know the actual impact, aside from the mass hysteria of there being an "open" anti-LGBT law.

My support for the western LGBT community was much higher before they recently "disocovered" Russia.

[Regnum Dominae]

Meanwhile, LGBT people are being arrested under this vague as fuck anti-propaganda law.
Your anecdote about the gay club is kinda cute, but it doesn't negate the havoc that this, indeed, evil law has wreaked.

Do we have stats for the number of arrests as a result of this law? Previous media reports have said that this law "banning homosexuality" will result in athletes and visitors being arrested on arrival in Sochi.

I would like to know the actual impact, aside from the mass hysteria of there being an "open" anti-LGBT law.

My support for the western LGBT community was much higher before they recently "disocovered" Russia.

We "discovered" Russia when Putin and the Duma passed the idiotic "gay propaganda" bill into law.

The fact that you lose respect for the LGBT rights movement just because they don't give Russia a free pass "because they're Russia" shows that you really don't actually care about LGBT rights at all.

[Liriena]

Do we have stats for the number of arrests as a result of this law? Previous media reports have said that this law "banning homosexuality" will result in athletes and visitors being arrested on arrival in Sochi.

I would like to know the actual impact, aside from the mass hysteria of there being an "open" anti-LGBT law.

My support for the western LGBT community was much higher before they recently "disocovered" Russia.

We "discovered" Russia when Putin and the Duma passed the idiotic "gay propaganda" bill into law.

The fact that you lose respect for the LGBT rights movement just because they don't give Russia a free pass "because they're Russia" shows that you really don't actually care about LGBT rights at all.

Thank you.

[Occupied Deutschland]

Meanwhile, LGBT people are being arrested under this vague as fuck anti-propaganda law.
Your anecdote about the gay club is kinda cute, but it doesn't negate the havoc that this, indeed, evil law has wreaked.

Do we have stats for the number of arrests as a result of this law? Previous media reports have said that this law "banning homosexuality" will result in athletes and visitors being arrested on arrival in Sochi.

I would like to know the actual impact, aside from the mass hysteria of there being an "open" anti-LGBT law.

My support for the western LGBT community was much higher before they recently "disocovered" Russia.

This law deserves all the shit it is getting even if it hasn't resulted in any arrests.

[Regnum Dominae]

We "discovered" Russia when Putin and the Duma passed the idiotic "gay propaganda" bill into law.

The fact that you lose respect for the LGBT rights movement just because they don't give Russia a free pass "because they're Russia" shows that you really don't actually care about LGBT rights at all.

Thank you.

It seems to me from his posts in this thread, and other threads, that Srboslavija cares little or nothing about LGBT rights, instead caring about keeping his super duper special Russia, a horrific, homophobic, corrupt, authoritarian, sham-democracy shielded from the harsh criticism it needs and deserves.

[Sibirsky]

Meanwhile, LGBT people are being arrested under this vague as fuck anti-propaganda law.
Your anecdote about the gay club is kinda cute, but it doesn't negate the havoc that this, indeed, evil law has wreaked.

Do we have stats for the number of arrests as a result of this law? Previous media reports have said that this law "banning homosexuality" will result in athletes and visitors being arrested on arrival in Sochi.

I would like to know the actual impact, aside from the mass hysteria of there being an "open" anti-LGBT law.

None. The international uproar over an athlete or a member of a delegation getting arrested for something like this, makes it... not worth it.

But that isn't the point. The point is the millions of LGBT people that call Russia home.

My support for the western LGBT community was much higher before they recently "disocovered" Russia.

[Oil exporting People]

Russia has been utterly slammed by Western media, advocacy groups, and politicians. I find myself asking where were these same people in 2008 when the Olympics were in Communist China.

[Othelos]

Russia has been utterly slammed by Western media, advocacy groups, and politicians. I find myself asking where were these same people in 2008 when the Olympics were in Communist China.

China isn't remotely communist.

[Regnum Dominae]

Russia has been utterly slammed by Western media, advocacy groups, and politicians.

And rightfully so.

I find myself asking where were these same people in 2008 when the Olympics were in Communist China.

This is entirely irrelevant.

[Regnum Dominae]

Russia has been utterly slammed by Western media, advocacy groups, and politicians. I find myself asking where were these same people in 2008 when the Olympics were in Communist China.

China isn't remotely communist.

It's not communist, but it is Communist.

[Blasveck]

Russia has been utterly slammed by Western media, advocacy groups, and politicians. I find myself asking where were these same people in 2008 when the Olympics were in Communist China.

Slamming China for their human rights abuses. Go figure.

[Cerbergo]

The Olympics, what a waste of money

[Oil exporting People]

China isn't remotely communist.

Considering how authoritarian they are and how much influence the government exercises in the economy?

[Regnum Dominae]

China isn't remotely communist.

Considering how authoritarian they are and how much influence the government exercises in the economy?

That's not what communism is.

China is authoritarian state-capitalist.

[Srboslavija]

instead caring about keeping his super duper special Russia, a horrific, homophobic, corrupt, authoritarian, sham-democracy shielded from the harsh criticism it needs and deserves.

Wow. Taken right out of the "ebil Reds are comin'" handbook. Thanks for confirming your obvious Russophobia.

[Occupied Deutschland]

Russia has been utterly slammed by Western media, advocacy groups, and politicians. I find myself asking where were these same people in 2008 when the Olympics were in Communist China.

Slamming China for their human rights abuses. Go figure.

It wasn't quite as loud as this row over the Russian gay propaganda law is.
Which doesn't justify either country's actions, and is predominantly caused by China being much better at suppressing information and news leakage than Russia is.

It was still there though, so I'm not sure what the dude is getting uproarious about. Yeah, it should've been louder, we can wish for that whilst being loud over the current site of the Olympics. It's not a zero-sum game of rightous indignation here.

[Regnum Dominae]

instead caring about keeping his super duper special Russia, a horrific, homophobic, corrupt, authoritarian, sham-democracy shielded from the harsh criticism it needs and deserves.

Wow. Taken right out of the "ebil Reds are comin'" handbook. Thanks for confirming your obvious Russophobia.

See, you're proving my point for me.

I get the feeling that "Russophobia" has lost all actual meaning and become simply a snarl world for anyone who dares commit the horrible, atrocious crime of criticizing Glorious Mother Russia.