Gays, Putin, and Skiing! Olympics Megathread: THE POLITICS

[Shofercia]

Having brown and yellow water flow from faucets, if it is flowing at all is not a "retarded issue." Hotel rooms without door handles is a pretty major thing too. Communication devices hacked within minutes, also important.
You fail.

Interesting, because I could say the same about you. Oh well. It really does help to check your sources from time to time. You should try it.

Your defense is as pathetic as the hotel rooms you are defending.

It's pathetic to defend such blatantly fake images, I know.

Good point!

Want some real western-media bullshit? How about NBC scaremongering about "Sochi hacking stories"? Even in America there are some people who really question the truthfulness of this claim. Shocking, I know. They all are either Kremlin paid stooges or just not patriotic enough.

Looks like NBC is competing with Faux News for lack of credibility in Russia. Hey, at least they're competing in something

[Shofercia]

Speaking of those links:

We’ve blurred out this image, because it’s awful. You may have seen it though; piles of dead dogs, alleged to be victims of the city’s plan to exterminate strays in the lead-up to the games. Yes, dogs are being killed. But no, that photo you see circulating on Facebook and Twitter is not from Sochi. It’s from Ukraine in 2012.

Ukraine in 2012. Ukraine is not Russia.

Some journalists have reported plumbing problems at some of the hotels in Sochi, and the water may very well be unpotable. But this particular photo isn’t from Russia. The image dates to at least August of 2012 and was used to illustrate the fact that tap water in the Ukraine was not scoring well on government tests.

Amazingly enough, Ukraine is still not Russia. Hmm, I wonder the shit storm that would happen in Russian Media starting showing photos of Mexican ghettos as Olympic Atlanta? Don't get me wrong, not all of Ukraine would equate to that, not even most of Ukraine, but certain parts just might.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Speaking of those links:

We’ve blurred out this image, because it’s awful. You may have seen it though; piles of dead dogs, alleged to be victims of the city’s plan to exterminate strays in the lead-up to the games. Yes, dogs are being killed. But no, that photo you see circulating on Facebook and Twitter is not from Sochi. It’s from Ukraine in 2012.

Ukraine in 2012. Ukraine is not Russia.

Some journalists have reported plumbing problems at some of the hotels in Sochi, and the water may very well be unpotable. But this particular photo isn’t from Russia. The image dates to at least August of 2012 and was used to illustrate the fact that tap water in the Ukraine was not scoring well on government tests.

Amazingly enough, Ukraine is still not Russia. Hmm, I wonder the shit storm that would happen in Russian Media starting showing photos of Mexican ghettos as Olympic Atlanta? Don't get me wrong, not all of Ukraine would equate to that, not even most of Ukraine, but certain parts just might.

I love how one fake photo being circulated is being used to invalidate every single other photo of and report of the water being undrinkable. How they admit that "the water may very well be unpotable", then breezily move on as if that isn't a major freaking issue when you have representatives from hundreds of different nations arriving on your doorstep expecting access to the basic necessities of life.

[Gravlen]

Speaking of those links:



Ukraine in 2012. Ukraine is not Russia.



Amazingly enough, Ukraine is still not Russia. Hmm, I wonder the shit storm that would happen in Russian Media starting showing photos of Mexican ghettos as Olympic Atlanta? Don't get me wrong, not all of Ukraine would equate to that, not even most of Ukraine, but certain parts just might.

I love how one fake photo being circulated is being used to invalidate every single other photo of and report of the water being undrinkable. How they admit that "the water may very well be unpotable", then breezily move on as if that isn't a major freaking issue when you have representatives from hundreds of different nations arriving on your doorstep expecting access to the basic necessities of life.

"Yes, the hotels might be unfinished, water may be undrinkable, dogs may be killed, but the pictures following these stories is not a photo of the actual events, so we can disregard the actual stories behind the pictures and go GOTCHA! while we casually move on (disregarding the fact that other photos of these events exist)."

[Shofercia]

Speaking of those links:



Ukraine in 2012. Ukraine is not Russia.



Amazingly enough, Ukraine is still not Russia. Hmm, I wonder the shit storm that would happen in Russian Media starting showing photos of Mexican ghettos as Olympic Atlanta? Don't get me wrong, not all of Ukraine would equate to that, not even most of Ukraine, but certain parts just might.

I love how one fake photo being circulated is being used to invalidate every single other photo of and report of the water being undrinkable. How they admit that "the water may very well be unpotable", then breezily move on as if that isn't a major freaking issue when you have representatives from hundreds of different nations arriving on your doorstep expecting access to the basic necessities of life.

Where, exactly, am I arguing that the problems you list aren't major issues? The reason that I didn't pay much attention to them, is because quite a few people, including yourself, have already pointed out that those are major issues. I really don't feel the need to jump on that bandwagon. And I agree, those are major issues. But a post by me saying that, or a lack of a post by me saying that, well, it's really not going to matter, because it's already been pointed out.

What hasn't been pointed out quite as often, is the number of bullshit published by those bashing Russia. It's not just one photo. There were two photos in that post, coming from 8 photos, all discredited in a single link. One has to wonder if half of what's written about Sochi is horseshit. And this is a huge issue. For instance, we know that there was corruption. But did said corruption cost Russia $3 billion or $30 billion? That's a huge difference, one that's important not to undervalue. Screaming that there was corruption in Russia isn't going to do much. We know there is. Figuring out exactly how much said corruption cost, (at least to the nearest billion, although even that would be asking too much of Russian Neolibs,) and figuring out ways to fight said corruption in the future, that's important. Similarly, if I want to visit Sochi, which I do, I'd want to know more about the extent of that crap. Yes, it's a major problem. But how prevalent is it?

When Russians point out that it's not as prevalent as journos originally claimed, that's also important to know. You have to look at both sides of the coin, and then decide whether to risk going there or not. You cannot just look at one side of the coin, and then one the other side points out your fallacies, respond with "oh noes, they're ignoring major problems!!!" We're not ignoring them, we simply don't feel the need to restate something that's been said numerous times. Speaking of numbers, there are only 193 UN members, less than half of whom regularly attend the Winter Games, so your claim about people from hundreds of nations attending seems to be factually incorrect. Please don't misinterpret that statement as me breezing through the problems you mentioned, since I just addressed them.

[Vorkova]

I misread sledding on the poll as step ladder racing. What an awesome sport that would be.

[Shofercia]

I misread sledding on the pole as step ladder racing. What an awesome sport that would be.

It would! What rules would you suggest for it?

[Gallup]

I misread sledding on the pole as step ladder racing. What an awesome sport that would be.

It would! What rules would you suggest for it?

Climb a snowy (hey, it had to have something to do with winter) step ladder. Fastest wins.

[Gravlen]

Completely unexpected, concerns about the temperature is now being voiced:

On Monday, these Sub-Tropical Olympics really started to heat up with temperatures soaring to 16 degrees C. That led to skiers in the mountains above Sochi putting snow in their racing suits to cool down, and left ski jumpers landing in puddles.

"I'm trying to hide from the sun here because I feel like I'm getting red," said Chemmy Alcott, a British skier who competed in the super-combined race.

The weather could get even warmer by the end of the week.

Organizers said the temperature could reach 17 C on Thursday.

But even up in Krasnaya Polyana, where the outdoor events are being held, temperatures were well above freezing.

"It was pretty warm snow and I don't think I adapted to it well," said American skier Stacey Cook, who missed a gate in the slalom leg of the super-combined. "It slides under your ski more."

At the RusSki Gorki Jumping Center, organizers cancelled the first of three jumps after sunny skies and 15 C temperatures softened the snow in the landing area. The second session was postponed after an official said the first competitor fell while landing.

When training resumed, only 38 of 55 starters made jumps in each of the two rounds.

The mountain venues are expected to return to freezing Tuesday, organizers said. But from Wednesday, warmer weather is in the forecast.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/sochi/temperature-rises-in-sochi-as-winter-olympics-feel-the-heat-1.1679033#ixzz2t0aiD0wH

Winter Olympians are starting to feel like summer competitors, as temperatures in Sochi are expected to rise to a balmy 63 degrees by Thursday. While Sochi is ranked the hottest Winter Olympic host city of all time, its February 2014 temperatures are significantly higher than its usual 49-degree average.

Several athletes, especially those participating in snow-based events, said the warmer weather in Russia might have hurt their performance. When U.S. skier Stacey Cook missed a gate in the slalom leg, she believed the above freezing temperatures were to blame. “It was pretty warm snow, and I don’t think I adapted to it well,” Cook said, via the Associated Press. “It slides under your ski more.”

The unusually warm weather has forced Olympic officials to move morning practices to the evening. British skier Chemmy Alcott even expressed concern that she was getting a sunburn.

Olympic organizers are resolving the temperature issue by storing enough snow for the games to continue.

http://nesn.com/2014/02/heat-wave-hits-sochi-winter-games-olympians-claim-effect-on-performance/

[Shofercia]

http://www.ctvnews.ca/sochi/temperature-rises-in-sochi-as-winter-olympics-feel-the-heat-1.1679033#ixzz2t0aiD0wH

Winter Olympians are starting to feel like summer competitors, as temperatures in Sochi are expected to rise to a balmy 63 degrees by Thursday. While Sochi is ranked the hottest Winter Olympic host city of all time, its February 2014 temperatures are significantly higher than its usual 49-degree average.

Several athletes, especially those participating in snow-based events, said the warmer weather in Russia might have hurt their performance. When U.S. skier Stacey Cook missed a gate in the slalom leg, she believed the above freezing temperatures were to blame. “It was pretty warm snow, and I don’t think I adapted to it well,” Cook said, via the Associated Press. “It slides under your ski more.”

The unusually warm weather has forced Olympic officials to move morning practices to the evening. British skier Chemmy Alcott even expressed concern that she was getting a sunburn.

Olympic organizers are resolving the temperature issue by storing enough snow for the games to continue.

http://nesn.com/2014/02/heat-wave-hits-sochi-winter-games-olympians-claim-effect-on-performance/

Athletes who lose are blaming the weather? Oh wow, who would've guessed?! I mean that's soooo unpredictable!

Never mind that Stacey Cook actually trained in Mammoth Lakes, where skiing temperatures reached 19 degrees Celsius today. She can just say something like "It was pretty warm snow, and I don’t think I adapted to it well" and have completely clueless people who don't know jack shit about what they're actually saying go "oh you poor thing, it must be that ubah-ebul Russia. Yes, that's it, you'll get them next time, Cookie!"

Once again, poor journalism strikes. If an athlete who missed a gate, (that's a major error,) bitches about the weather, I'd actually check what the weather in her training towns was like, and compare that to Sochi's, and come to the absolutely phenomenal conclusion that 19 > 17. But I guess even that's too much to expect from some journalists these days.

Should the organizers move as many events around as they can to accommodate the athletes? Absolutely. And it looks like they're trying. But if some skiers hit all the gates, and others miss some gates, it's hardly just the weather that's to blame.

In b4 someone else writes an utterly idiotic me-too post, pretending that responding to an example is some secret attempt to deflect all weather concerns, even though only the latter part of that "superb" post was addressed.

[Gravlen]

More bad journalism:

It was always going to be warm in subtropical Sochi, which during the Soviet era was a summer-time resort, where workers from colder and darker parts of Russia would come for rest and recuperation in beach hotels and sanatoriums. Indeed, this was one of Sochi's main selling points when Vladimir Putin originally made the Olympic bid seven years ago: that one could ski in the mountains and swim in the sea in the space of a day.

But the surprisingly warm temperatures have also extended to the mountain zone, softening the snow and wreaking havoc with some events. Skiers have been visibly uncomfortable in the warm sunshine and snowboarders have described the halfpipe course as "dangerous", "crappy" and "mush", with much of the complaining due to the warm weather. Other sports, including the biathlon, have been affected by the soft snow, and there have been changes to the programming to allow events to start in the evening when it is colder.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/feb/11/sochi-winter-olympics-warmest-ever

The warm weather is having real consequences for the competition. Several biathletes in the men’s 12.5-kilometer pursuit event fell while skiing the softened course. Jean-Philippe le Guellec of Canada was leading the race when he crashed, breaking one of his skis. He dropped out of medal contention while waiting for a replacement and finished 26th.

“Honestly, I want to punch a wall and hopefully break through it,” he told the Associated Press.

A training session for the downhill portion of the men’s super-combined Alpine skiing event that had been scheduled for Tuesday morning was postponed for two days. At the RusSki Gorki Jumping Center in the mountain cluster, sun-softened snow in the landing area forced organizers to cancel the first of three daytime jumps for Nordic combined competitors Monday. A second jump was postponed after the first competitor fell while landing. Gold medal favorite Eric Frenzel of Germany was among those who chose not to make any practice jumps Monday, according to the Associated Press.

“It’s not even slushy — it’s mushy and it’s very hard to ski on,” American Bill Demong told reporters. “There’s no structure to the snow, and the person who can float the best wins.”

At the Rosa Khutor Extreme Park, Austrian moguls skier Dale Begg-Smith also complained of soft snow, saying: “I wasn’t feeling it. . . . The course is a little too warm.”

At the Sanki Sliding Center, also in the mountain cluster, luger Lukas Broz of the Czech Republic said flatly: “The weather is bad. It needs to be colder [because] we don’t have the right blades for this weather.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/olympics/winter-olympics-in-sochi-are-offering-summer-temperatures-challenging-conditions/2014/02/10/33bbac9a-927a-11e3-b3f7-f5107432ca45_story.html

But nobody (apart from the Chinese) can control the weather, so...

[Gallup]

More bad journalism:

It was always going to be warm in subtropical Sochi, which during the Soviet era was a summer-time resort, where workers from colder and darker parts of Russia would come for rest and recuperation in beach hotels and sanatoriums. Indeed, this was one of Sochi's main selling points when Vladimir Putin originally made the Olympic bid seven years ago: that one could ski in the mountains and swim in the sea in the space of a day.

But the surprisingly warm temperatures have also extended to the mountain zone, softening the snow and wreaking havoc with some events. Skiers have been visibly uncomfortable in the warm sunshine and snowboarders have described the halfpipe course as "dangerous", "crappy" and "mush", with much of the complaining due to the warm weather. Other sports, including the biathlon, have been affected by the soft snow, and there have been changes to the programming to allow events to start in the evening when it is colder.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/feb/11/sochi-winter-olympics-warmest-ever

The warm weather is having real consequences for the competition. Several biathletes in the men’s 12.5-kilometer pursuit event fell while skiing the softened course. Jean-Philippe le Guellec of Canada was leading the race when he crashed, breaking one of his skis. He dropped out of medal contention while waiting for a replacement and finished 26th.

“Honestly, I want to punch a wall and hopefully break through it,” he told the Associated Press.

A training session for the downhill portion of the men’s super-combined Alpine skiing event that had been scheduled for Tuesday morning was postponed for two days. At the RusSki Gorki Jumping Center in the mountain cluster, sun-softened snow in the landing area forced organizers to cancel the first of three daytime jumps for Nordic combined competitors Monday. A second jump was postponed after the first competitor fell while landing. Gold medal favorite Eric Frenzel of Germany was among those who chose not to make any practice jumps Monday, according to the Associated Press.

“It’s not even slushy — it’s mushy and it’s very hard to ski on,” American Bill Demong told reporters. “There’s no structure to the snow, and the person who can float the best wins.”

At the Rosa Khutor Extreme Park, Austrian moguls skier Dale Begg-Smith also complained of soft snow, saying: “I wasn’t feeling it. . . . The course is a little too warm.”

At the Sanki Sliding Center, also in the mountain cluster, luger Lukas Broz of the Czech Republic said flatly: “The weather is bad. It needs to be colder [because] we don’t have the right blades for this weather.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/olympics/winter-olympics-in-sochi-are-offering-summer-temperatures-challenging-conditions/2014/02/10/33bbac9a-927a-11e3-b3f7-f5107432ca45_story.html

But nobody (apart from the Chinese) (apart from the Zionists who are using the weather to control our minds) can control the weather, so...

FTFY.

[Gallup]

Interesting, because I could say the same about you. Oh well. It really does help to check your sources from time to time. You should try it.

It's pathetic to defend such blatantly fake images, I know.

Good point!

Want some real western-media bullshit? How about NBC scaremongering about "Sochi hacking stories"? Even in America there are some people who really question the truthfulness of this claim. Shocking, I know. They all are either Kremlin paid stooges or just not patriotic enough.

Looks like NBC is competing with Faux News for lack of credibility in Russia. Hey, at least they're competing in something

Fox news is not as biased as RT.

[Soviet Russia Republic]

Fox news is not as biased as RT.

You may want to watch more Fox News before you claim that. Well no, you properly shouldn't.

[Gallup]

Fox news is not as biased as RT.

You may want to watch more Fox News before you claim that. Well no, you properly shouldn't.

I watch it all the time.

[Orla]

I love the pair skating.

[Sibirsky]

Interesting, because I could say the same about you. Oh well. It really does help to check your sources from time to time. You should try it.

It's pathetic to defend such blatantly fake images, I know.

Good point!

He had no point. If you actually paid attention to the thread, you would see that the picture in question was not fake, but actually quite real.

But, that would interfere with your unquestionable, unconditional defense of Russia and Putin, whether they deserve it or not.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Good point!

He had no point. If you actually paid attention to the thread, you would see that the picture in question was not fake, but actually quite real.

But, that would interfere with your unquestionable, unconditional defense of Russia and Putin, whether they deserve it or not.

Yes, this whole "There are fake and joke images of Sochi conditions circulating that have been mistaken for real, therefore all of the information coming from journalists who are actually there must be fake." doesn't pass the common sense test.

[Sibirsky]

He had no point. If you actually paid attention to the thread, you would see that the picture in question was not fake, but actually quite real.

But, that would interfere with your unquestionable, unconditional defense of Russia and Putin, whether they deserve it or not.

Yes, this whole "There are fake and joke images of Sochi conditions circulating that have been mistaken for real, therefore all of the information coming from journalists who are actually there must be fake." doesn't pass the common sense test.

It doesn't have to. You and I, and the journalists said bad things about Russia. Therefore, we must be discredited.

[Shofercia]

Yes, this whole "There are fake and joke images of Sochi conditions circulating that have been mistaken for real, therefore all of the information coming from journalists who are actually there must be fake." doesn't pass the common sense test.

It doesn't have to. You and I, and the journalists said bad things about Russia. Therefore, we must be discredited.

Sib, you have a history of specifically targeting my posts about Russia when I critique Capitalism. You were warned for that. Specifically for that: viewtopic.php?p=17640488#p17640488

There is no point in me discrediting you, since you have a well established history of doing just that. In this thread, prior to me posting this: viewtopic.php?p=18814449#p18814449, you did not respond to me in this thread. Not once. But right after I posted a response to your "hurr durr Capitalism must be worshipped and used to bring all poor nations out of poverty", you come in here, and attempt to discredit me, while accusing me of discrediting you.

[Gallup]

It doesn't have to. You and I, and the journalists said bad things about Russia. Therefore, we must be discredited.

Sib, you have a history of specifically targeting my posts about Russia when I critique Capitalism. You were warned for that. Specifically for that: viewtopic.php?p=17640488#p17640488

There is no point in me discrediting you, since you have a well established history of doing just that. In this thread, prior to me posting this: viewtopic.php?p=18814449#p18814449, you did not respond to me in this thread. Not once. But right after I posted a response to your "hurr durr Capitalism must be worshipped and used to bring all poor nations out of poverty", you come in here, and attempt to discredit me, while accusing me of discrediting you.

Let's not make this about attacking someone personally.

[Sibirsky]

It doesn't have to. You and I, and the journalists said bad things about Russia. Therefore, we must be discredited.

Sib, you have a history of specifically targeting my posts about Russia when I critique Capitalism. You were warned for that. Specifically for that: viewtopic.php?p=17640488#p17640488

There is no point in me discrediting you, since you have a well established history of doing just that. In this thread, prior to me posting this: viewtopic.php?p=18814449#p18814449, you did not respond to me in this thread. Not once. But right after I posted a response to your "hurr durr Capitalism must be worshipped and used to bring all poor nations out of poverty", you come in here, and attempt to discredit me, while accusing me of discrediting you.

Maybe you should brush up on what is actually happening in Congo, before posting that. And what capitalism actually is. Because Congo has nothing to do with it.

Capitalism has not failed. You have the same history of targeting my posts on markets and capitalism. I point you to that same Congo post, and this "hurr durr Capitalism must be worshipped and used to bring all poor nations out of poverty" bullshit you posted here.

But since Congo and capitalism are not for this thread...

You have the same history of tar

[Shofercia]

Sib, you have a history of specifically targeting my posts about Russia when I critique Capitalism. You were warned for that. Specifically for that: viewtopic.php?p=17640488#p17640488

There is no point in me discrediting you, since you have a well established history of doing just that. In this thread, prior to me posting this: viewtopic.php?p=18814449#p18814449, you did not respond to me in this thread. Not once. But right after I posted a response to your "hurr durr Capitalism must be worshipped and used to bring all poor nations out of poverty", you come in here, and attempt to discredit me, while accusing me of discrediting you.

Maybe you should brush up on what is actually happening in Congo, before posting that. And what capitalism actually is. Because Congo has nothing to do with it.

Capitalism has not failed. You have the same history of targeting my posts on markets and capitalism. I point you to that same Congo post, and this "hurr durr Capitalism must be worshipped and used to bring all poor nations out of poverty" bullshit you posted here.

But since Congo and capitalism are not for this thread...

You have the same history of tar

Funny, because the post I quoted was primarily about India, where you said Capitalism worked, and I cited a valid story with Capitalism leading the extremely poor towards suicide. We can pick that up in that thread, you've yet to respond. Oh, and where did I go after anyone for critiquing Capitalism/Communism/Centrism/Socialism/Whateverism? I don't particularly give a shit about the isms, so why don't you stop the crappy claims about my nonexistent "history of tar".

[Dyakovo]

Maybe you should brush up on what is actually happening in Congo, before posting that. And what capitalism actually is. Because Congo has nothing to do with it.

Capitalism has not failed. You have the same history of targeting my posts on markets and capitalism. I point you to that same Congo post, and this "hurr durr Capitalism must be worshipped and used to bring all poor nations out of poverty" bullshit you posted here.

But since Congo and capitalism are not for this thread...

You have the same history of tar

Funny, because the post I quoted was primarily about India, where you said Capitalism worked, and I cited a valid story with Capitalism leading the extremely poor towards suicide. We can pick that up in that thread, you've yet to respond.

Not the topic of this thread, guys...

[Shofercia]

Funny, because the post I quoted was primarily about India, where you said Capitalism worked, and I cited a valid story with Capitalism leading the extremely poor towards suicide. We can pick that up in that thread, you've yet to respond.

Not the topic of this thread, guys...

That's why I politely invited him over to that thread Dya