The White Persecution Complex

[Nazi Flower Power]

Historically those of European ancestry did not face much discrimination in Canada or America.

Is that so?

The Jews have had to put up with some serious crap too.

[Euronion]

Colleges exclude you from scholarships for being white, when colleges give free stuff to people who are nonwhite,

You DO know there are a shit ton of scholarships for people of "white" ancestry, right? Really, it takes five seconds of searching Google.

http://scholarships.fastweb.com/e-irish-students
http://www.schoolsoup.com/scholarship-d ... n-descent/
http://www.schoolsoup.com/scholarship-d ... h-descent/

when tests have explicit sections on them where you fill in certain bubbles to indicate whether you are a certain ethnicity to apply to a certain scholarship (My PSAT had a special box for African Americans who wanted to apply for the Negro College Fund) yet there are no sections for whites, rich or poor, no matter what country you come from.

Which has a very good reason behind it. Despite the fact that things like this exist, white people STILL disproportionately receive scholarship money. Thus, the goal is to get more possible applicants for minorities. The fact that ANY white person would complain about this only amounts to, "how DARE those dirty niggers take away scholarship money that should go to me?!?!?!111one!?"

Combine this with the fact that the "safe space" idea in schools is ruthlessly enforced (at least in my area) except in cases where teachers and students decide to bash, slander, and otherwise defame any person of light complexion for the acts of their ancestors.

And every day, I ride off into the sunset on my pink unicorn.

I've had teachers stop in the hallways to give referrals to students for using terms such as "fag," and rightfully so, yet I see them calmly walk by while groups of students blame the troubles of the entire world on white people.

This is indeed outrageous. How dare those teachers not teach you that your silly anecdotes aren't a substitute for actual data. If you really think, "X happened at my high school!" is enough to scream and shout that there is a nationwide injustice, your school failed you.

When it is considered okay to have a BET

Wait... what's wrong with BET?

a Black Student Union, a Latinos Unidos, and special award nights for nonwhites but then prevent a white student group from forming an "English, Irish, Scottish, Welsh Club" (again something that happened at my school) and refuse the proposal that there be award nights for people of all types of cultural backgrounds, not on skin color (again, happened at my school)

Could you explain why we should a) believe you and b) take this at a face value in a discussion about trends and data on a national scale? Despite what you may believe, your experiences (which are questionable at best in the first place) mean utterly nothing on a national scale and once again, amounts to nothing more than whining that you no longer can subjugate minorities.

you have certain public school classes with quotas for "people of color" (my school)

Um... no you don't. No school in this country has quotas. That's illegal.

you have teachers supporting the idea that all white people are privileged no matter their situation, and when you dane to suggest that things may not be the way that they would have you believe, that perhaps white people aren't always privileged, that perhaps there is a little racism going in your direction or a little religious hate coming towards Christians (Christian shaming definitely takes place at my school), then you are told that you are wrong, you are told to sit down, and you are told it is time to move on to another topic.

Well, that's probably because you are wrong.

Given these circumstances, as an average American, you could probably come to the conclusion that the system is working against you for merely being white and possibly Christian.

Well, sure. If you have the mentality of a child and don't understand that personal anecdotes aren't a placeholder for data or noticeable trends or patterns on a national scale.

1. Yeah, I am aware of that, I am speaking of the fact that many advertised scholarships explicitly exclude white people. I was not suggesting that there were no scholarships for white people
2. Perhaps instead you should offer categories to people of all ethnicities instead of explicitly naming only one? I don't see what's wrong with saying "If you are X bubble here if you want to apply for a scholarship" or just a general "bubble here if you want to apply to a scholarship" has it ever occurred to you that the reason why white people suck up so much scholarship money is because they make up a majority of the population? Seriously, why do you oppose the idea that we should give people more opportunities?
3. So you got nothing to say? For now on I shall assume that anytime you say something stupid such as this that you agree with me. Thank you for agreeing with me.
4. Allow me to refer you to the first part of my post which explicitly stated that I was talking about things that happened AT MY HIGH SCHOOL for a reason. That reason was human perception, how someone can come to the conclusion that they are being persecuted against. Please read before you give a knee-jerk reply, it will save us both a lot of trouble and a lot of time.
5. "Black Entertainment Television" we were speaking about it in class and my teacher was trying to defend the idea that certain stations should have the right to only hire black people and to discount anyone who is non-black legally. I disagreed.
6. Human Perception. Understand it. People don't base their opinions solely on facts and evidence, most people in fact base their opinions on personal experience. I don't give a shit whether you believe what happened to me or not. I'm trying to explain that as a white person, you could feel like you are being persecuted against if all these factors compound on you.
7. I'm glad you noticed. I actually had to email the Principal about it and threatened to sue to school until she realized that it was, indeed, a violation of the law. The policy was changed after that.
8. No, not really. You know you're not that convincing when you tell me that all teachers are right and I am wrong because I hold a differing opinion. That's rather authoritarian of you.
9. No, not really. If I was a Jew in Germany, and I got slapped around by the SA, I wouldn't give a fuck about what the national figures said, I'd haul ass out of Germany. You're telling people "Personal experiences? NONONONONONO!!!!!!1111oneone YOU GOTZ TO LOOKZ ONLY AT THE DATA!!!!" Sorry, but that's not how human's work. Thank you though for trying to insert so many attacks in a single post, it really is so kind of you to slander me to advance your argument.

[Euronion]

1. I'm not talking about what happened historically, I'm talking about perceptions and how many Americans can view themselves as being persecuted due to all these factors combined. I also completely disagree with you on a great deal of what you said but this is not about historical and social debate but about perception so I'm going to avoid going on that tangent.

2. Really? Because I could've sworn that "persecution" is a valid word when one is talking about the murder, rape, pillaging, and sacking of a group of people for either their beliefs or their ethnicity. I also don't see what bully a gay kid has to do with a Woman's right to wear a small cross under her uniform being told that she could either get rid of it or lose her job. Like it or not persecution against Christians is real. Pastor Saeed is currently imprisoned by the Iranian government because he is an Iranian-American Christian who went to Iran for a short period. He is still imprisoned. I'm very sick of this idea that because violence, murder, rape, and pillaging is against Christians, it's suddenly not persecution.

Fair enough. Let me rephrase: Christians in the United States are not persecuted. Again, just because you get told to stop bullying the gay kid does not mean you are being persecuted.

Also, perception has everything to do with history because that is the root of it. White people in the modern United States are not persecuted. They aren't refused service for their race, they aren't disproportionately affected by poverty and incarceration rates, they are not beaten to death in small southern towns, they do not have crosses burned in their yards, they are not disproportionately stopped and searched by police. White Americans are not the victims persecution. They perceive this persecution because they are losing their former place of power.

Okay, I am glad you rephrased that as it was concerned for a moment there. Again though, I don't see where the argument "I can't bully gay kid = religious persecution" comes into play. I do however see and hear many stories of Christian prayer groups being banned from campuses and college students being confined to "free speech alley[s]" to exercise their rights to free speech. Fortunately many of these cases have been overturned by courts but the point still stands. Being Christian isn't the "I can do anything I want I have all the privileges in the world" card as it used to be.

They perceive persecution because in an effort to try and lift up and advance other races, white people are being told that they can't have certain opportunities because they happen to be white. If you are a person answering a poll, "Are you persecuted against?" you aren't going to think "well let me look back and examine the incarceration rates of people like me," no, you are going to draw on personal experience. As much as Marvopen hates personal experiences, they are undoubtedly the basis for the very wide majority of human opinion. Figures, numbers, and graphs are abstract to us; when something actually affects us then it truly seems to "hit home." That's how humans generally operate. Obviously if enough white Americans feel that their victims of racism, whether you like it or not, whether you believe it or not, they hold their opinions and they're unlikely to change them any time soon. If the goal is to repair race relations and to bridge the gaps between minorities and the majority, then clearly we are doing something wrong.

[Russadonia]

Fair enough. Let me rephrase: Christians in the United States are not persecuted. Again, just because you get told to stop bullying the gay kid does not mean you are being persecuted.

Also, perception has everything to do with history because that is the root of it. White people in the modern United States are not persecuted. They aren't refused service for their race, they aren't disproportionately affected by poverty and incarceration rates, they are not beaten to death in small southern towns, they do not have crosses burned in their yards, they are not disproportionately stopped and searched by police. White Americans are not the victims persecution. They perceive this persecution because they are losing their former place of power.

Okay, I am glad you rephrased that as it was concerned for a moment there. Again though, I don't see where the argument "I can't bully gay kid = religious persecution" comes into play. I do however see and hear many stories of Christian prayer groups being banned from campuses and college students being confined to "free speech alley[s]" to exercise their rights to free speech. Fortunately many of these cases have been overturned by courts but the point still stands. Being Christian isn't the "I can do anything I want I have all the privileges in the world" card as it used to be.

They perceive persecution because in an effort to try and lift up and advance other races, white people are being told that they can't have certain opportunities because they happen to be white. If you are a person answering a poll, "Are you persecuted against?" you aren't going to think "well let me look back and examine the incarceration rates of people like me," no, you are going to draw on personal experience. As much as Marvopen hates personal experiences, they are undoubtedly the basis for the very wide majority of human opinion. Figures, numbers, and graphs are abstract to us; when something actually affects us then it truly seems to "hit home." That's how humans generally operate. Obviously if enough white Americans feel that their victims of racism, whether you like it or not, whether you believe it or not, they hold their opinions and they're unlikely to change them any time soon. If the goal is to repair race relations and to bridge the gaps between minorities and the majority, then clearly we are doing something wrong.

My point is that Christians feel persecuted because they can't treat people like shit and get away with it as much anymore. Please, point me in the direction of a Christians not being allowed to pray on campus, and I mean really not being allowed to pray. I'm not talking about school-led prayer or schools endorsing religion, but an actual incident of a child being told they can't' pray in school.

What? I used data and education to come to my conclusion. The point of graphs is to make data concrete, not abstract. This is why they are meticulously labelled and often the results of serious research and data. It isn't hard, especially in the internet age. You use this defense as if you are an educated psychologist, so are you an educated psychologist?

[Mavorpen]

1. Yeah, I am aware of that, I am speaking of the fact that many advertised scholarships explicitly exclude white people. I was not suggesting that there were no scholarships for white people

Uh... how about you define "many" here, instead of leaving it intentionally vague so that you couldn't possibly be wrong? The only way "many" would apply would be if you actually meant "some."

2. Perhaps instead you should offer categories to people of all ethnicities instead of explicitly naming only one?

They do. They explicitly name minorities (the claim that it's just one is a complete and utter lie, because the NHRP is also available upon taking the PSAT) because the majority of scholarships go to white people.

I don't see what's wrong with saying "If you are X bubble here if you want to apply for a scholarship" or just a general "bubble here if you want to apply to a scholarship"

Because it's wholly unnecessary.

has it ever occurred to you that the reason why white people suck up so much scholarship money is because they make up a majority of the population?

Do you know what the word "disproportionately" means? Surely more difficult words were on the PSAT/SAT. I didn't put the word there for fun, you know. It's really baffling that you would ask me a question that's literally already answered for you in the post that you're responding to.

3. So you got nothing to say?

What am I supposed to say to personal claims of your experiences?

4. Allow me to refer you to the first part of my post which explicitly stated that I was talking about things that happened AT MY HIGH SCHOOL for a reason.

I'm aware of that. Which is why I commented on this fact throughout my post. You DID read my post, right?

That reason was human perception, how someone can come to the conclusion that they are being persecuted against.

I already addressed this.

Please read before you give a knee-jerk reply, it will save us both a lot of trouble and a lot of time.

Which is funny, because you've refused to do just this. I already acknowledged this "perception" nonsense and I explained WHY I replied the way I replied: that your "perception" is based on ignorance and/or exaggerations, thus comparing your complains of persecution with those of gays or blacks is silly.

5. "Black Entertainment Television" we were speaking about it in class and my teacher was trying to defend the idea that certain stations should have the right to only hire black people and to discount anyone who is non-black legally. I disagreed.

Either you're lying through your teeth or your teacher doesn't actually know what BET is. Maybe it's both. Either way, this makes utterly no sense because BET doesn't only hire black people. The fucking channel is owned by white people. So why you would have a debate about whether channels can only hire black people while discussing BET is baffling, unless neither of you knew anything about BET.

6. Human Perception. Understand it. People don't base their opinions solely on facts and evidence, most people in fact base their opinions on personal experience.

Which is wholly irrelevant to my post. I already fucking acknowledged the "human perception." What I object to is you using such shitty reasoning to justify comparing persecution of blacks, gays, etc. with minor inconveniences a white person may face.

I don't give a shit whether you believe what happened to me or not. I'm trying to explain that as a white person, you could feel like you are being persecuted against if all these factors compound on you.

Of course you could. I'm not disagreeing with that. I'm simply saying that these "factors" are either made up, exaggerated, or misunderstood due to ignorance.

7. I'm glad you noticed. I actually had to email the Principal about it and threatened to sue to school until she realized that it was, indeed, a violation of the law. The policy was changed after that.

Yeah, sure you did.

8. No, not really. You know you're not that convincing when you tell me that all teachers are right and I am wrong because I hold a differing opinion. That's rather authoritarian of you.

Uh... what? Nowhere did I say that. I said "Well, that's probably because you are wrong." The thing is, the chances of you accurately describing these issues without exaggeration is slim at best. Like you already admitted, people like to go with their perceptions rather than facts.

9. No, not really. If I was a Jew in Germany, and I got slapped around by the SA, I wouldn't give a fuck about what the national figures said, I'd haul ass out of Germany.

Who wouldn't?

You're telling people "Personal experiences? NONONONONONO!!!!!!1111oneone YOU GOTZ TO LOOKZ ONLY AT THE DATA!!!!" Sorry, but that's not how human's work.

I'm fully aware that humans are irrational concerning this subject. It's nice to see you admit that you are irrational concerning this subject as well. But regardless, you once again completely missed the purpose of my post. My post never suggested "that's how humans work." My post criticized you using human irrationality to ignorantly make it seem as though white people's complaints about persecution in countries like the United states are anywhere near legitimate as those of blacks, gays, women, etc.

[Russadonia]

I'd seriously like to take a moment to thank Mavorpen for effectively saying what I've been trying to in a better, more understandable way.

[Euronion]

Okay, I am glad you rephrased that as it was concerned for a moment there. Again though, I don't see where the argument "I can't bully gay kid = religious persecution" comes into play. I do however see and hear many stories of Christian prayer groups being banned from campuses and college students being confined to "free speech alley[s]" to exercise their rights to free speech. Fortunately many of these cases have been overturned by courts but the point still stands. Being Christian isn't the "I can do anything I want I have all the privileges in the world" card as it used to be.

They perceive persecution because in an effort to try and lift up and advance other races, white people are being told that they can't have certain opportunities because they happen to be white. If you are a person answering a poll, "Are you persecuted against?" you aren't going to think "well let me look back and examine the incarceration rates of people like me," no, you are going to draw on personal experience. As much as Marvopen hates personal experiences, they are undoubtedly the basis for the very wide majority of human opinion. Figures, numbers, and graphs are abstract to us; when something actually affects us then it truly seems to "hit home." That's how humans generally operate. Obviously if enough white Americans feel that their victims of racism, whether you like it or not, whether you believe it or not, they hold their opinions and they're unlikely to change them any time soon. If the goal is to repair race relations and to bridge the gaps between minorities and the majority, then clearly we are doing something wrong.

My point is that Christians feel persecuted because they can't treat people like shit and get away with it as much anymore. Please, point me in the direction of a Christians not being allowed to pray on campus, and I mean really not being allowed to pray. I'm not talking about school-led prayer or schools endorsing religion, but an actual incident of a child being told they can't' pray in school.

What? I used data and education to come to my conclusion. The point of graphs is to make data concrete, not abstract. This is why they are meticulously labelled and often the results of serious research and data. It isn't hard, especially in the internet age. You use this defense as if you are an educated psychologist, so are you an educated psychologist?

1. The American Center for Law and Justice (A Conservative Christian organization regularly takes on theses cases), I shall direct you to their various cases pages here:
Equal Access cases, here you even have cases where individual sutdents were told they couldn't wear a cross. If those sources do not suffice a google search will show all kinds of results such as this one.

2. Allow me to rephrase what I mean by abstract and concrete. If you are human, your experiences are generally far more convincing to you than facts and graphs. You can show me all the graphs you want about violence against white people for being white being very low. Though if every time I walk outside my house I see white people being threatened, beaten, raped, etc. none of those figures are going to convince me

[Russadonia]

My point is that Christians feel persecuted because they can't treat people like shit and get away with it as much anymore. Please, point me in the direction of a Christians not being allowed to pray on campus, and I mean really not being allowed to pray. I'm not talking about school-led prayer or schools endorsing religion, but an actual incident of a child being told they can't' pray in school.

What? I used data and education to come to my conclusion. The point of graphs is to make data concrete, not abstract. This is why they are meticulously labelled and often the results of serious research and data. It isn't hard, especially in the internet age. You use this defense as if you are an educated psychologist, so are you an educated psychologist?

1. The American Center for Law and Justice (A Conservative Christian organization regularly takes on theses cases), I shall direct you to their various cases pages here:
Equal Access cases, here you even have cases where individual sutdents were told they couldn't wear a cross. If those sources do not suffice a google search will show all kinds of results such as this one.

2. Allow me to rephrase what I mean by abstract and concrete. If you are human, your experiences are generally far more convincing to you than facts and graphs. You can show me all the graphs you want about violence against white people for being white being very low. Though if every time I walk outside my house I see white people being threatened, beaten, raped, etc. none of those figures are going to convince me

How about a source that isn't conservative and Christian? I saw several cases in which schools were not allowing government funds to be allocated for student led prayer. None of these actually talk about the genuine restriction of prayer, only government funds to be used as such. The case of the CNN article is unfortunate but one child does not a justified persecution complex make. This ACLJ site really just reinforces my beliefs.

Oh, and are white people threatened, beaten, raped disproportionately by minorities? No, They aren't. Is the media portraying this? Yes. Is the media controlled by whites? Absolutely.

[Euronion]

1. Yeah, I am aware of that, I am speaking of the fact that many advertised scholarships explicitly exclude white people. I was not suggesting that there were no scholarships for white people

Uh... how about you define "many" here, instead of leaving it intentionally vague so that you couldn't possibly be wrong? The only way "many" would apply would be if you actually meant "some."

2. Perhaps instead you should offer categories to people of all ethnicities instead of explicitly naming only one?

They do. They explicitly name minorities (the claim that it's just one is a complete and utter lie, because the NHRP is also available upon taking the PSAT) because the majority of scholarships go to white people.

I don't see what's wrong with saying "If you are X bubble here if you want to apply for a scholarship" or just a general "bubble here if you want to apply to a scholarship"

Because it's wholly unnecessary.

has it ever occurred to you that the reason why white people suck up so much scholarship money is because they make up a majority of the population?

Do you know what the word "disproportionately" means? Surely more difficult words were on the PSAT/SAT. I didn't put the word there for fun, you know. It's really baffling that you would ask me a question that's literally already answered for you in the post that you're responding to.

3. So you got nothing to say?

What am I supposed to say to personal claims of your experiences?

4. Allow me to refer you to the first part of my post which explicitly stated that I was talking about things that happened AT MY HIGH SCHOOL for a reason.

I'm aware of that. Which is why I commented on this fact throughout my post. You DID read my post, right?

That reason was human perception, how someone can come to the conclusion that they are being persecuted against.

I already addressed this.

Please read before you give a knee-jerk reply, it will save us both a lot of trouble and a lot of time.

Which is funny, because you've refused to do just this. I already acknowledged this "perception" nonsense and I explained WHY I replied the way I replied: that your "perception" is based on ignorance and/or exaggerations, thus comparing your complains of persecution with those of gays or blacks is silly.

5. "Black Entertainment Television" we were speaking about it in class and my teacher was trying to defend the idea that certain stations should have the right to only hire black people and to discount anyone who is non-black legally. I disagreed.

Either you're lying through your teeth or your teacher doesn't actually know what BET is. Maybe it's both. Either way, this makes utterly no sense because BET doesn't only hire black people. The fucking channel is owned by white people. So why you would have a debate about whether channels can only hire black people while discussing BET is baffling, unless neither of you knew anything about BET.

6. Human Perception. Understand it. People don't base their opinions solely on facts and evidence, most people in fact base their opinions on personal experience.

Which is wholly irrelevant to my post. I already fucking acknowledged the "human perception." What I object to is you using such shitty reasoning to justify comparing persecution of blacks, gays, etc. with minor inconveniences a white person may face.

I don't give a shit whether you believe what happened to me or not. I'm trying to explain that as a white person, you could feel like you are being persecuted against if all these factors compound on you.

Of course you could. I'm not disagreeing with that. I'm simply saying that these "factors" are either made up, exaggerated, or misunderstood due to ignorance.

7. I'm glad you noticed. I actually had to email the Principal about it and threatened to sue to school until she realized that it was, indeed, a violation of the law. The policy was changed after that.

Yeah, sure you did.

8. No, not really. You know you're not that convincing when you tell me that all teachers are right and I am wrong because I hold a differing opinion. That's rather authoritarian of you.

Uh... what? Nowhere did I say that. I said "Well, that's probably because you are wrong." The thing is, the chances of you accurately describing these issues without exaggeration is slim at best. Like you already admitted, people like to go with their perceptions rather than facts.

9. No, not really. If I was a Jew in Germany, and I got slapped around by the SA, I wouldn't give a fuck about what the national figures said, I'd haul ass out of Germany.

Who wouldn't?

You're telling people "Personal experiences? NONONONONONO!!!!!!1111oneone YOU GOTZ TO LOOKZ ONLY AT THE DATA!!!!" Sorry, but that's not how human's work.

I'm fully aware that humans are irrational concerning this subject. It's nice to see you admit that you are irrational concerning this subject as well. But regardless, you once again completely missed the purpose of my post. My post never suggested "that's how humans work." My post criticized you using human irrationality to ignorantly make it seem as though white people's complaints about persecution in countries like the United states are anywhere near legitimate as those of blacks, gays, women, etc.

1. I don't really get your point. If you're trying to argue semantics, I'm not in the mood.
2. Not on the PSAT. Unless my school decided to cut out that page when I took it twice.
3. Giving people more scholarships is unnecessary? I'll have to take that one under advisement.
4. If you have a larger pool of people, you are probably going to have a lot more smart college bound people coming from that large pool. Unless you are suggesting that scholarships should be awarded proportionally cookie-cutter style, in which case I disagree with you even more (if that's even possible).
5. How about nothing? I would at least settle for no smart ass comments, that would be nice for a change. You're view of "personal experience = wrong" is really grounded in no rhyme or reason other than "I don't want to believe you so damn you"
6. Really? because your post seemed to lack any understanding of what I was talking about.
7. You addressed it at the very end, which was rather confusing since you seemed to be completely blind to the fact throughout the entire post until the very end which gives me the creeping suspicion that you immediately hit the "reply" button once a post appears and write your post as you read mine instead of reading all the way through and then replying.
8. Are you me? do you know me? do you attend my school? are you even in my state? no? okay then, so why are saying that my personal experiences are exaggerations? Really the nerve, to come and tell me that my experiences are somehow invalid. You do realize that personal diaries are considered some of the strongest historical evidence of what life was like in certain eras right? Instead of trying to invalidate my personal experiences, why don't you actually try and not post rude, insulting, and belligerent commens and instead debate civilly please. We've had this conversation many times before. Thank you.
9. At the time I didn't even know BET existed, the teacher was the one who alerted me to the presence of something called "Black Entertainment Television" and he went onto a tangent about affirmative action and how he believed it was right for BET to hire only black people because otherwise there would be no representation of Black people in media. I disagreed. Accusing me of being a liar doesn't change the validity of my experiences.
10.
11. You sound like a Holocaust denier. You are saying "because I don't see it, you are a liar" you and I both know that is a full load of BS
12. Like I said, I really don't give a shit what you believe I did or didn't do. If it is so inconceivable to you that I opposed the institution of an illegal quota system at my public school for a public school class then you seriously need to change your opinions. Illegal things happen in schools, schools do things that are illegal and that are struck down by courts, it happens all the time. If you are not convinced I'm not going to do anything to try and convince other than tell you that attempting to brand me a "liar" for stating my honest personal experiences is A) disingenuous and B) rude as hell
13.
14. You, because you don't believe in personal experiences amirite?
15. Really? because your post came off as an attack on me, an attack on personal experiences, and an attack on the possibility that white people aren't all living in heaven on Earth.

If I came off as rude and belligerent, that was intentional because I believe in the Golden Rule, as long as you act this way towards me, I'll be the exact same back Marvopen.

[Euronion]

1. The American Center for Law and Justice (A Conservative Christian organization regularly takes on theses cases), I shall direct you to their various cases pages here:
Equal Access cases, here you even have cases where individual sutdents were told they couldn't wear a cross. If those sources do not suffice a google search will show all kinds of results such as this one.

2. Allow me to rephrase what I mean by abstract and concrete. If you are human, your experiences are generally far more convincing to you than facts and graphs. You can show me all the graphs you want about violence against white people for being white being very low. Though if every time I walk outside my house I see white people being threatened, beaten, raped, etc. none of those figures are going to convince me

How about a source that isn't conservative and Christian? I saw several cases in which schools were not allowing government funds to be allocated for student led prayer. None of these actually talk about the genuine restriction of prayer, only government funds to be used as such. The case of the CNN article is unfortunate but one child does not a justified persecution complex make. This ACLJ site really just reinforces my beliefs.

Oh, and are white people threatened, beaten, raped disproportionately by minorities? No, They aren't. Is the media portraying this? Yes. Is the media controlled by whites? Absolutely.

1. I gave you one, it was the third source. I was referring you to their cases page because many of them source news stories. The cases that I've seen are completely different. Students being banned from forming Bible groups on campus, Student's being told that wearing the cross is a violation of the dress code, Student's being told they can only hand out pamphlets in designation "free speech zones" etc. You asked for a source in which Christians are persecuted, I gave you one, now you demand that I provide you thousands of sources to show that this happens to many people? I'm sorry I can't do that because many of these stories don't make the news because most people don't see anything good out of drawing media attention and slugging out months or years in court, hiring a lawyer, finding a different school, etc. to fight these kinds of things.

2. I'm not saying that is happening, I'm giving an example. I've never seen the media portray it that way. I was giving an example in which personal experiences are at odds with data.

2.

[Russadonia]

How about a source that isn't conservative and Christian? I saw several cases in which schools were not allowing government funds to be allocated for student led prayer. None of these actually talk about the genuine restriction of prayer, only government funds to be used as such. The case of the CNN article is unfortunate but one child does not a justified persecution complex make. This ACLJ site really just reinforces my beliefs.

Oh, and are white people threatened, beaten, raped disproportionately by minorities? No, They aren't. Is the media portraying this? Yes. Is the media controlled by whites? Absolutely.

1. I gave you one, it was the third source. I was referring you to their cases page because many of them source news stories. The cases that I've seen are completely different. Students being banned from forming Bible groups on campus, Student's being told that wearing the cross is a violation of the dress code, Student's being told they can only hand out pamphlets in designation "free speech zones" etc. You asked for a source in which Christians are persecuted, I gave you one, now you demand that I provide you thousands of sources to show that this happens to many people? I'm sorry I can't do that because many of these stories don't make the news because most people don't see anything good out of drawing media attention and slugging out months or years in court, hiring a lawyer, finding a different school, etc. to fight these kinds of things.

2. I'm not saying that is happening, I'm giving an example. I've never seen the media portray it that way. I was giving an example in which personal experiences are at odds with data.

2.

These student's are not being persecuted. Being told that government-funded buildings are no place to proselytize is not persecution, it is maintaining separation of church and state. I don't want thousands of sources. I want a data-backed sourced which shows children being denied their first amendments rights which would prove that Christians are justified in their perceived persecution. I got one incident from CNN and I pointed out that one student doesn't equal persecution as a group.

Wait, so if it isn't happening, white people aren't seeing it and therefore have nothing to base their experiences on? You can't have it both ways fella.

[Euronion]

1. I gave you one, it was the third source. I was referring you to their cases page because many of them source news stories. The cases that I've seen are completely different. Students being banned from forming Bible groups on campus, Student's being told that wearing the cross is a violation of the dress code, Student's being told they can only hand out pamphlets in designation "free speech zones" etc. You asked for a source in which Christians are persecuted, I gave you one, now you demand that I provide you thousands of sources to show that this happens to many people? I'm sorry I can't do that because many of these stories don't make the news because most people don't see anything good out of drawing media attention and slugging out months or years in court, hiring a lawyer, finding a different school, etc. to fight these kinds of things.

2. I'm not saying that is happening, I'm giving an example. I've never seen the media portray it that way. I was giving an example in which personal experiences are at odds with data.

2.

These student's are not being persecuted. Being told that government-funded buildings are no place to proselytize is not persecution, it is maintaining separation of church and state. I don't want thousands of sources. I want a data-backed sourced which shows children being denied their first amendments rights which would prove that Christians are justified in their perceived persecution. I got one incident from CNN and I pointed out that one student doesn't equal persecution as a group.

Wait, so if it isn't happening, white people aren't seeing it and therefore have nothing to base their experiences on? You can't have it both ways fella.

1. So it is violation of church and state for an assembly of people to meet at a park and pray? As I said, it's impossible to track. Here, show me a graph that displays exactly the amount of girls told they could not wear a hijab at school . . . is it easy to find? or can you only find a plethora of singular accounts and estimates? I gave you the sources from the ACLJ, they're a rather reputable group and have argued many cases before the Supreme Court before and won. It's not like they're some crackpot organization being run by one slimy lawyer like Saul Goodman. If you think that not allowing a group of citizens to pray on public property is a violation of church and state, I shall wait until I see police officers dragging Christians off the sidewalks by the hair from daring to pray on a publically funded sidewalk.

2. Not at all. You want data showing that there is persecution, I am saying that very little of such data exists because so little of it makes the news. I argue that human perception if the basis for their opinion, what they experience. As much as Marv hates me for daring to use personal examples and as much as he wants to believe I'm a liar, I am telling the truth and as I told him, I don't care whether you believe what I say or not, but if the majority of white Americans feel this way and there are signs of persecution that you refuse to acknowledge, then whether you believe me or not, the majority of Americans hold these views. Contrary to popular belief on NS, calling someone names and saying they are delusional is not going to convince any American worth his or her salt that the things that they and their children see everyday are not really happening and that they are living in some fantasy world in which all white people are super rich privileged care free people with not a single trouble in the world other than where to find a decent golf course in the city.

EDIT: Now as much as I like debating with someone who isn't rude and who doesn't call me a liar for a change, It is really getting rather late here and I have strep throat so I'm going to go to bed.

[Estado Paulista]

A bunch of black people yelled towards us but we were in a nicer area.

You have no idea how racist this just sounded.

[Mavorpen]

1. I don't really get your point. If you're trying to argue semantics, I'm not in the mood.

You're not in the mood to accurately make a claim? That isn't surprising.

2. Not on the PSAT. Unless my school decided to cut out that page when I took it twice.

Either you're lying, or you didn't pay attention, because when I took it, it informed us that certain scores and inputs for ethnicity would allow us to become eligible for certain scholarships, such as the NHRP.

3. Giving people more scholarships is unnecessary?

I'm not sure how in the world your change would give people more scholarships. The organizations directly involved with said scholarships automatically receive your information if you fulfill the criteria. The options that you can fill in don't actually change whether you can receive the scholarship or not. When I filled out the option for scholarships because I'm black, it was only so that I could receive information about the scholarships if I was interested.

4. If you have a larger pool of people, you are probably going to have a lot more smart college bound people coming from that large pool.

Again. Do you know what the word "disproportionate" means? "There are more whites" doesn't address a single thing I said.

Unless you are suggesting that scholarships should be awarded proportionally cookie-cutter style, in which case I disagree with you even more (if that's even possible).

Again, not what the fucking word "disproportionate" means. If it was "cookie cutter," then each group would receive the same percentage of funds. This isn't what I'm saying should be the case. I'm saying that they should be actually proportional to the groups themselves. If it WAS proportional, then non-Hispanic whites would receive only 65% of scholarship funds, rather than the 75% shown in the source I provided. This is because they make up roughly 65% of the population.

5. How about nothing? I would at least settle for no smart ass comments, that would be nice for a change. You're view of "personal experience = wrong" is really grounded in no rhyme or reason other than "I don't want to believe you so damn you"

I didn't say "personal experience=wrong." I said that it's not a legitimate or valid way to make judgments. They absolutely can be correct. But that's only if they're supported with data.

6. Really? because your post seemed to lack any understanding of what I was talking about.

I'm fully aware you did not read it.

7. You addressed it at the very end, which was rather confusing since you seemed to be completely blind to the fact throughout the entire post until the very end which gives me the creeping suspicion that you immediately hit the "reply" button once a post appears and write your post as you read mine instead of reading all the way through and then replying.

Or, there was no need to do so until the part where it was explicitly relevant.

8. Are you me? do you know me? do you attend my school? are you even in my state? no? okay then, so why are saying that my personal experiences are exaggerations?

Because you ALREADY admitted that people by nature don't go with facts in these situations.

Really the nerve, to come and tell me that my experiences are somehow invalid. You do realize that personal diaries are considered some of the strongest historical evidence of what life was like in certain eras right?

Of course. But that's when they are compared to OTHER firsthand or secondhand accounts. It's almost like personal diaries are accepted only when *gasp* verified by outside sources as well. Imagine that.

9. At the time I didn't even know BET existed, the teacher was the one who alerted me to the presence of something called "Black Entertainment Television" and he went onto a tangent about affirmative action and how he believed it was right for BET to hire only black people because otherwise there would be no representation of Black people in media. I disagreed.

I really doubt there is a single teacher who believes that BET ONLY hires white people.

Accusing me of being a liar doesn't change the validity of my experiences.

No, the fact that it's a personal story with no way to validate it does.

11. You sound like a Holocaust denier. You are saying "because I don't see it, you are a liar" you and I both know that is a full load of BS

Except, Holocaust deniers also deny the objective data/outside sources that are independent of one person's personal stories.

If you've been paying attention, that's what I've been arguing against. I'd be perfectly fine with believing a person's personal story if there were also other independent sources to support believing it.

13.

I agree with this. Trying to assert that I should take your personal experience at a face value after you just said that people don't act on facts in these situations is worthy of a facepalm.

14. You, because you don't believe in personal experiences amirite?

Sure, if you haven't read a single thing I posted.

15. Really? because your post came off as an attack on me, an attack on personal experiences, and an attack on the possibility that white people aren't all living in heaven on Earth.

I'm fully aware you didn't read my post and to compensate for this, you attacked shitty straw men.

If I came off as rude and belligerent, that was intentional because I believe in the Golden Rule, as long as you act this way towards me, I'll be the exact same back Marvopen.

...Okay? That's nice? Not sure where I said anything about this. Personally, I don't care about that. As long as it doesn't end up with stuff like "lol, suck my dick," I couldn't care less.

[Norstal]

1. Yeah, I am aware of that, I am speaking of the fact that many advertised scholarships explicitly exclude white people. I was not suggesting that there were no scholarships for white people

They are advertised because not a lot of black people know them and a lot of black people don't have access to information regarding such scholarships.

You don't have an excuse if you know there's scholarships for white people. And simply advertising them doesn't constitute racism anymore than tampon ads promotes sexism.

[Revolutionarily]

But you make the assumption that "driving while black" exists. Cops only pull you over for a valid reason. If you are breaking the law and black it is because you broke the law! It is virtually impossible to see who you are pulling over.

If more blacks get pulled over than Caucasians it is because more of them are breaking the law or showing suspicious behavior.

"Driving while black" does exist at least in some areas.

I had a black friend who lived in Florida for several years. He was frequently pulled over and had his car searched. I think there were one or two speeding tickets, but most of the time they just claimed it was a "random" stop and did not have any reason to pull him over. They NEVER had any legitimate reason for searching the car, but they still searched it multiple times. There was one summer when he was pulled over approximately once every two weeks.

I have never been pulled over in a random stop in a car where a white person was driving. When I have been in a car that was pulled over for speeding with a white driver, the police never searched the car.

I imagine the more rational reason is that it is specific to the area and that there was a certain search/investigation involving his specific car model

[Revolutionarily]

Bollocks.

It is especially undifficult to tell if a person is black if you pull them over and walk up to their vehicle.

Which police officers tend to do. Frequently.

LOL

At that point they already were pulled over for a crime.

Would you prefer the officer looked at the driver and said "oh i am sorry i had no idea you were black, carry on" and walk off? Where is the justice in that?

[Mavorpen]

"Driving while black" does exist at least in some areas.

I had a black friend who lived in Florida for several years. He was frequently pulled over and had his car searched. I think there were one or two speeding tickets, but most of the time they just claimed it was a "random" stop and did not have any reason to pull him over. They NEVER had any legitimate reason for searching the car, but they still searched it multiple times. There was one summer when he was pulled over approximately once every two weeks.

I have never been pulled over in a random stop in a car where a white person was driving. When I have been in a car that was pulled over for speeding with a white driver, the police never searched the car.

I imagine the more rational reason is that it is specific to the area and that there was a certain search/investigation involving his specific car model

That's a good explanation.

Except of course, when you consider that he said that this happened frequently. What, you think his car just happens to frequently be the car model used most in illegal activities?

[Revolutionarily]

It is virtually impossible to see who you are pulling over.

Bollocks.

I have a challenge for you!

Sit on the side of a highway and wait for a car to speed past the flow of traffic and tell me if you can see the driver

[Norstal]

Bollocks.

I have a challenge for you!

Sit on the side of a highway and wait for a car to speed past the flow of traffic and tell me if you can see the driver

...What makes you think these cops pull over drivers just in highways?

What do you think is the speed limit in suburban areas?

[Aurumaquaria]

I think this comes down to a majority of Americans are wingnuts, and a majority of Americans are white, thus a majority of whites are wingnuts kind of situation. I really don't care about this statistic.

[Revolutionarily]

I imagine the more rational reason is that it is specific to the area and that there was a certain search/investigation involving his specific car model

That's a good explanation.

Except of course, when you consider that he said that this happened frequently. What, you think his car just happens to frequently be the car model used most in illegal activities?

I believe it is the civic(maybe accord) that is the most stolen car. If the friend is in an area with a high crime rate and he had one with a very common color it is possible. He also never specified if his friend has any charges that would make them more likely to search the car.

Maybe i trust people too much, but i just do not think someone would go out of their way to do extra work when they do not have to. They never know who will be in that car and what will happen. If a cop does not have to risk their life i doubt they will just to harass a black man.

[Mavorpen]

That's a good explanation.

Except of course, when you consider that he said that this happened frequently. What, you think his car just happens to frequently be the car model used most in illegal activities?

I believe it is the civic(maybe accord) that is the most stolen car. If the friend is in an area with a high crime rate and he had one with a very common color it is possible. He also never specified if his friend has any charges that would make them more likely to search the car.

Maybe i trust people too much, but i just do not think someone would go out of their way to do extra work when they do not have to. They never know who will be in that car and what will happen. If a cop does not have to risk their life i doubt they will just to harass a black man.

Riiight. So to you, it's just a coincidence that black people are disproportionately more likely to be pulled over?

Yes, because every black person just happens to have cars used mostly in crimes in their respective area. Seems legit.

[Revolutionarily]

I have a challenge for you!

Sit on the side of a highway and wait for a car to speed past the flow of traffic and tell me if you can see the driver

...What makes you think these cops pull over drivers just in highways?

What do you think is the speed limit in suburban areas?

I personally rarely see cops in suburban areas, just major roads.

So drive along in a road that is 45 and when you see someone going an estimated 65+ tell me the race of the driver.

[Revolutionarily]

I believe it is the civic(maybe accord) that is the most stolen car. If the friend is in an area with a high crime rate and he had one with a very common color it is possible. He also never specified if his friend has any charges that would make them more likely to search the car.

Maybe i trust people too much, but i just do not think someone would go out of their way to do extra work when they do not have to. They never know who will be in that car and what will happen. If a cop does not have to risk their life i doubt they will just to harass a black man.

Riiight. So to you, it's just a coincidence that black people are disproportionately more likely to be pulled over?

Yes, because every black person just happens to have cars used mostly in crimes in their respective area. Seems legit.

No, it is not a coincidence. It is because they broke the law.