Is Atheism faith?

[Eliminativism Without Tears]

An atheist who lacks belief in the existence of god still gives meaning to the word "god".

And a roleplayer who lacks belief in the existence of kobolds still gives meaning to the word "kobold". So what?

I don't think you're attempting to understand the context to our conversation, which was me trying to find out why he put atheism and theological noncognitivism in the same sentence, when atheism gives meaning to the word god, while theological noncognitivism does not.

[Breadknife]

You believe that you exist, do you not?

Belief doesn't come into it. Certainly not in the "faith" sense of the word. I am experiencing existence. Whether the existence I think I am experiencing is accurate (i.e. I'm not a Brain In A Bottle hallucinating or plugged into The Matrix) is perhaps something I should consider, but it would be a matter of belief were I to imagine it was other than as it seems.

How is that not faith?

Given it's not belief, it's not faith. But even if I did actually 'believe' something (up to and including that I was (in) a computer simulation) it might be a full on faith if I were to be acting on the basis that my alternate hypothesis were more true than the more obvious one. I don't have to make any leaps of imagination to go along with the "it is how it appears to be" scenario, just roll with it. No faith necessary.

You believe that those around you exist. That is faith.

Again, I am in direct contact with those people. No belief involved, certainly no faith. IPUs and FSMs need faith, the wife and neighbours and friends and (ex-)colleagues do not. Unless you stretch 'faith' to be so all-encompassing as to cover matters that other words more than adequately cover already.

We all believe in something.

I believe that we're at an etymological impass. But I fail to see how you would describe that as a faith of any kind. And doesn't help you qualify atheism as a faith, because I don't believe in atheism. At the most I might say as how I subscribe to the general concept.

Why is it an issue if atheism is a faith? That doesn't de-validate the position at all.

Because it's not an accurate descriptor. It may be a stance or a conviction or an operating principle to various people. Regardless of the question of de-validation it devalues both actual faith and the (wide, and far from monolithic) atheistic POV.

[Risottia]

atheism gives meaning to the word god,

Giving a meaning to a word - or, better, using the meaning given by other people - does not imply acknowledging the concept expressed through that word makes any sense or has any relation to reality.

[Risottia]

You believe that you exist, do you not?

No.

I have experimental data showing that I exist. No need for belief.

[Risottia]

Can we at least be honest about something? There is no realistic inbetween here. There is no "Oh, I simply lack a belief in God, that's not saying I believe no God exists".

Translation:
"If you don't buy into the unwarranted dichotomy I'm constructing to justify my argument you are intellectually dishonest".

Compelling reasoning.

[Eliminativism Without Tears]

atheism gives meaning to the word god,

Giving a meaning to a word - or, better, using the meaning given by other people - does not imply acknowledging the concept expressed through that word makes any sense or has any relation to reality.

Again, I have never said such a thing. If you bothered to read the conversation between Tekania and I, we were discussing atheism and noncognitivism, and I was pointing out that atheists can't be noncognitivists because atheism gives meaning to the word "god", while noncognitivism does not. At no point was I ever making a theistic argument that since atheism gives meaning to the word god, it entails that theism is plausible or some such argument. Perhaps you should actually read the full length of our conversation instead of quoting it out of context and then responding based on a false interpretation.

[Risottia]

I think you might want to rephrase the above statement.

Physics:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergodic_th ... c_theorems

Mathematics:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolzano%E2 ... ss_theorem

Outside of models, nothing can be proven. It can only be supported by evidence.

Now your claim makes more sense. My point, I guess.

[Closeted Cases]

Is abstinence a sex position?

Yes - you should ony read all the chastity fabtasies people get hot over.

[Aurora Novus]

Actually, yes, you do. even if you are wary in standing by that position, by not living your life as if god exists, you live it as if one does not exist. That behavior is an expression of the position you hold. You're simply not being honest with yourself if you say you don't hold that position during those times.

No, I am in no way acting as if he definitively does not exist, I am living as if he may or may not exist, as is the only honest way to live. Allow me to explain the difference, one living their life as if a god does not exist, cannot ascribe anything to such a being, nor can they accept any possibility of an event being the result of a deity, living as though a god may or may not exist, is, while not actively ascribing any event to a deity, is acknowledging that it is possible for such an event to be the result of a god.

What you describe is a frequent shifting of positions. you are correct, someone who lives their life as if god does not exist will not accept explanations of events as being acts of god. that does not mean, however, that other events they will not change their position on. People are not static, and they frequently flip flop on ideas. That you do so frequently doesn't mean you live as if he "may or may not exist". It means sometimes you live as if he exists, other times you don't. You are still bound to reality, like everyone else.

[Breadknife]

I'm a female now?

I assume everyone is until I learn otherwise

Must make for some interesting parties...

(edit: And some interested parties?)

[Liriena]

Not, atheism is lack of faith.

[Norantron]

Is not eating a meal?

[Aurora Novus]

Actually, yes, you do. even if you are wary in standing by that position, by not living your life as if god exists, you live it as if one does not exist. That behavior is an expression of the position you hold. You're simply not being honest with yourself if you say you don't hold that position during those times.

So someone who has never heard of god, and thus does not believe in god, believes no god exists?

No, of course not. How your post holds relevancy is beyond me. If perhaps you said "someone who has never known the idea of god, and thus does not believe in any god, believes no god exists", it might be more relevant. And to which I would say yes.

[Aurora Novus]

Can we at least be honest about something? There is no realistic inbetween here. There is no "Oh, I simply lack a belief in God, that's not saying I believe no God exists".

Translation:
"If you don't buy into the unwarranted dichotomy I'm constructing to justify my argument you are intellectually dishonest".

Compelling reasoning.

The only issue being it is not an unwarrented dichotomy. It's reality.

[Revitopia]

Atheism shares a few features of a faith (a set of belief about the nature of universe and (in)existence of God) but doesn't share many other features of a faith (no codified dogma, no belief in anything without evidence, ...). So what is your real question ?

Funny you can substitute "gnosticism" for "atheism" here and not violate its theistic principles.

[Conscentia]

So someone who has never heard of god, and thus does not believe in god, believes no god exists?

No, of course not. How your post holds relevancy is beyond me. If perhaps you said "someone who has never known the idea of god, and thus does not believe in any god, believes no god exists", it might be more relevant.

That sentence has the same meaning as what I said.

And to which I would say yes.

That's absurd.

Perhaps you should have a look at this:

[...]
Atheism is complete trust in the fact there is no God.
[...]

No. Atheism is the absence of belief in a deity.

[Trotskylvania]

An atheist who lacks belief in the existence of god still gives meaning to the word "god".

And a roleplayer who lacks belief in the existence of kobolds still gives meaning to the word "kobold". So what?

And if there's anything munckining on D&D 3.5 has taught me, it's that a Lvl 1 Kobold named Punpun is omnipotent.

[Conscentia]

Translation:
"If you don't buy into the unwarranted dichotomy I'm constructing to justify my argument you are intellectually dishonest".
Compelling reasoning.

The only issue being it is not an unwarrented dichotomy. It's reality.

Nope.

[Risottia]

Translation:
"If you don't buy into the unwarranted dichotomy I'm constructing to justify my argument you are intellectually dishonest".

Compelling reasoning.

The only issue being it is not an unwarrented dichotomy. It's reality.

Support it with evidence then. Prove that everyone has EITHER a belief that deities exist OR a belief that deities don't exist.

[Risottia]

And a roleplayer who lacks belief in the existence of kobolds still gives meaning to the word "kobold". So what?

And if there's anything munckining on D&D 3.5 has taught me, it's that a Lvl 1 Kobold named Punpun is omnipotent.

"Hello. My name is Yokyok. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0348.html

[Gallup]

Get it right, fundie. Atheism is science. Carl Sagan 2016!

[Conscentia]

Get it right, fundie. Atheism is science. Carl Sagan 2016!

That joke doesn't even make sense - it's the fundies who generally (& wrongly) believe that atheism is "belief in science".

[The Scientific States]

Get it right, fundie. Atheism is science. Carl Sagan 2016!

I'm hoping this is sarcasm.

[Risottia]

Get it right, fundie. Atheism is science. Carl Sagan 2016!

That joke doesn't even make sense - it's the fundies who generally (& wrongly) believe that atheism is "belief in science".

You mean Gallup's post wasn't an over-elaborate attempt at satirising what fundies would say about atheism in an over-elaborate attempt at satire?

[Sed26]

This is from a while back in the discussion, but:

Someone could have faith in Athiest beliefs. That would not make it a religion.
A religion relies on a belief of the supernatural.

I have faith in many things
Gravity
That the world if round
That the electricity company will supply power to my computer

And much more
None of them are a religion.

One cannot have faith in something empirical (based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience rather than theory or pure logic).

Gravity-masses attract each other. Always. It's a scientific law, so it exists. We don't know exactly what causes it--look up Higgs Boson (it's sometimes called the "God Particle"--ironic).
The world is round-Magellan (or really is crew--he died in the Philippines) proved this in 1522. We also have space footage to substantiate that fact.
The electricity company will supply power to my computer-This is much more in the grey area, because it deals with a future event. However, it would be more accurate to say that you trust the electric company to come through on its promises to deliver electricity to your house. This is also supported by powerful precedent, seeing as you have lost power for less than 1% of your time with the company. It's much different than not really knowing whether the electric company exists or not and not knowing whether you are receiving electricity or not, which can be measured by a meter. This differs from not knowing if there is a God, whether you are receiving his blessing or are capable of receiving his blessing and not knowing what form the blessing would take should you receive it, or what a blessing means in the first place. This is the extent of the faith that many truly religious people have. Making a reasonable assumption that conditions are unlikely to change in respect to the flow of electricity is much easier and less meaningful.

What faith means to me is making a blind leap and absolutely trusting that someone's got your back. You don't know who it is, if they are there, or would want to help you in the first place. In my view, atheists do not have this same sort of incredible trust or anything analogous to it. They operate on logic and empirical evidence to make their decisions. Where Muslims pray five times a day, an atheist could see it as a waste of time. Where some Christians become martyrs because of their belief, an atheist would see it as a useless way to spend your time of earth before your organs fail and your chemicals become broken down by parasites.

I may be cynical and biased, but I think that atheism is too easy. Even if no God exists, believing there is one is good practice for trusting your fellow man and motivates you to treat them fairly, not necessarily only according to your best interests. Furthermore, it gives a more optimistic view on life, one from which I think everybody could benefit. Sometimes the technicalities about religion can obscure the core of faith from the outside. Even if there is no life after death, you'll decompose anyway, and you made others happy while you were at it.