Is Atheism faith?

[Seriong]

That's a disguised query. "Is X a Y" is not generally a meaningful question in itself - words don't have strict boundaries, by fuzzy and switching ones. Asking if a X which has some features of Y but not others is a Y or not is disguised query for something else - so better ask your real query instead.

A tree falls in an empty forest, does it make a sound ? If by "sound" you mean "air vibration" then yes it does. If by "sound" you mean "auditory experience in a human brain" then no it doesn't. Does it really make a sound ? That question is meaningless - disguised query for one or the other.

Atheism shares a few features of a faith (a set of belief about the nature of universe and (in)existence of God) but doesn't share many other features of a faith (no codified dogma, no belief in anything without evidence, ...). So what is your real question ?

What he wants is for atheism to be called a religion, so he can shift the burden of proof, for if both are being called religions, and both take things on faith, then they're on equal ground.

[Big Brain City]

Faith is an unjustified belief in something without proof. Atheists lack that,

Wrong. Atheists lack that belief IN DEITIES.

A person could still believe without any proof in, let's say, ancestors' spirits, pixies or whatnot - as long as they're not deities - and be still an atheist.

Whoops. Sleep deprivation causes problems like that. My bad.

[Bombadil]

Sure, if you twist the meaning of "faith" enough to suit your needs.

So please refrain from playing the poor man's sophist.

According to Webster, Faith is a strong belief or trust in someone or something, so Reunited Illinois is correct. They didn't twist the definition of the word at all; so please refrain accusing people of twisting the meaning of words unless you know the definition of the word.

1.
complete trust or confidence in someone or something.
"this restores one's faith in politicians"
synonyms: trust, belief, confidence, conviction, credence, reliance, dependence; More
optimism, hopefulness, hope, expectation
"he completely justified his boss's faith in him"
antonyms: mistrust
2.
strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof.
"bereaved people who have shown supreme faith"
synonyms: religion, church, sect, denomination, persuasion, religious persuasion, religious belief, belief, code of belief, ideology, creed, teaching, dogma, doctrine More

On the first, the premise for most atheists is that they have ample explanation in scientific reason over believing in an imaginary being, at best a god is entirely irrelevant. Hence one could argue they have faith in rationality but that's almost a tortology - you don't have faith in what's provable..
On the second, there are no atheist doctrines, and proof is exactly what our convictions are based on.

So, on both, I think faith is entirely a wrong word.

[Greater Beggnig]

Of course it is. If it wasn't, atheists would kill themselves. Atheists believe in scientific progress, and the ability of mankind to overcome obstacles. That is their faith, without that, the world will never improve, there is no hope and you can figure out the rest.

Pardon me for still living, then...

(Again, we seem to be back to the idea of someone with Faith not being able to comprehend that anybody else might not have Faith, albeit of a different hue. Though I hope I'm just reading that wrong.)


edit: Probably not, though...

Everyone believes in something. It's called having independent thought. We are all religious because of that.

Bzzzt... I'm so sorry. Can you play again next week?

You believe that you exist, do you not? How is that not faith? You believe that those around you exist. That is faith. We all believe in something. Why is it an issue if atheism is a faith? That doesn't de-validate the position at all.

[Greater Beggnig]

According to Webster, Faith is a strong belief or trust in someone or something, so Reunited Illinois is correct. They didn't twist the definition of the word at all; so please refrain accusing people of twisting the meaning of words unless you know the definition of the word.

1.
complete trust or confidence in someone or something.
"this restores one's faith in politicians"
synonyms: trust, belief, confidence, conviction, credence, reliance, dependence; More
optimism, hopefulness, hope, expectation
"he completely justified his boss's faith in him"
antonyms: mistrust
2.
strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof.
"bereaved people who have shown supreme faith"
synonyms: religion, church, sect, denomination, persuasion, religious persuasion, religious belief, belief, code of belief, ideology, creed, teaching, dogma, doctrine More

On the first, the premise for most atheists is that they have ample explanation in scientific reason over believing in an imaginary being, at best a god is entirely irrelevant. Hence one could argue they have faith in rationality but that's almost a tortology - you don't have faith in what's provable..
On the second, there are no atheist doctrines, and proof is exactly what our convictions are based on.

So, on both, I think faith is entirely a wrong word.

Nothing can be proven. It can only be supported by evidence.

[Seriong]

You believe that you exist, do you not? How is that not faith? You believe that those around you exist. That is faith. We all believe in something. Why is it an issue if atheism is a faith? That doesn't de-validate the position at all.

Unless we are operating under different definitions of the idea of atheism, you haven't convinced me that there's anything there to have faith about.

[Bombadil]

1.
complete trust or confidence in someone or something.
"this restores one's faith in politicians"
synonyms: trust, belief, confidence, conviction, credence, reliance, dependence; More
optimism, hopefulness, hope, expectation
"he completely justified his boss's faith in him"
antonyms: mistrust
2.
strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof.
"bereaved people who have shown supreme faith"
synonyms: religion, church, sect, denomination, persuasion, religious persuasion, religious belief, belief, code of belief, ideology, creed, teaching, dogma, doctrine More

On the first, the premise for most atheists is that they have ample explanation in scientific reason over believing in an imaginary being, at best a god is entirely irrelevant. Hence one could argue they have faith in rationality but that's almost a tortology - you don't have faith in what's provable..
On the second, there are no atheist doctrines, and proof is exactly what our convictions are based on.

So, on both, I think faith is entirely a wrong word.

Nothing can be proven. It can only be supported by evidence.

Fine, there is no testable evidence for God, hence one has to have faith to believe in one, there is plenty of testable evidence for science, hence it's not a faith. Since there is no testable evidence for God, it is not a function of faith to disregard the possibility as, at best, irrelevant.

[Risottia]

Nothing can be proven. It can only be supported by evidence.

I think you might want to rephrase the above statement.

Physics:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergodic_th ... c_theorems

Mathematics:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolzano%E2 ... ss_theorem

[Greater Beggnig]

Nothing can be proven. It can only be supported by evidence.

Fine, there is no testable evidence for God, hence one has to have faith to believe in one, there is plenty of testable evidence for science, hence it's not a faith. Since there is no testable evidence for God, it is not a function of faith to disregard the possibility as, at best, irrelevant.

But, just because there is no testable evidence for something doesn't mean it doesn't exist, and atheism takes the polar opposite position of organised religion, rather than acknowledging that things could possibly exist beyond our own understanding.

[Risottia]

Sure, if you twist the meaning of "faith" enough to suit your needs.

So please refrain from playing the poor man's sophist.

According to Webster, Faith is a strong belief or trust in someone or something, so Reunited Illinois is correct.

Where is the "strong belief in something" in a "lack of belief in something"?

They didn't twist the definition of the word at all;

Did.

so please refrain accusing people of twisting the meaning of words unless you know the definition of the word.

Please refrain from playing lawyer unless you know how.

[Greater Beggnig]

Nothing can be proven. It can only be supported by evidence.

I think you might want to rephrase the above statement.

Physics:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergodic_th ... c_theorems

Mathematics:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolzano%E2 ... ss_theorem

Outside of models, nothing can be proven. It can only be supported by evidence.

[Kubrath]

Sure, if you twist the meaning of "faith" enough to suit your needs.

So please refrain from playing the poor man's sophist.

According to Webster, Faith is a strong belief or trust in someone or something, so Reunited Illinois is correct. They didn't twist the definition of the word at all; so please refrain accusing people of twisting the meaning of words unless you know the definition of the word.

Hah, Merriam-Webster. Here's bloody Oxford:

1. complete trust or confidence in someone or something:

this restores one’s faith in politicians

2. strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof:

bereaved people who have shown supreme faith

[count noun] a particular religion: the Christian faith
[count noun] a strongly held belief: [/i]men with strong political faiths[/i]

No such thing applicable to atheists as atheists.

[Nazi Flower Power]

It is. They run a lot of "Black Cat in a Coal Mine" reruns. It's a really old show, from before talkies came into fashion, and it is hard to read the subtitles because they are black on black.

I hear they have really low budget special effects, but I can't tell.

They are actually not bad for the time period, but they're not up to modern standards by any means.

[Bombadil]

Fine, there is no testable evidence for God, hence one has to have faith to believe in one, there is plenty of testable evidence for science, hence it's not a faith. Since there is no testable evidence for God, it is not a function of faith to disregard the possibility as, at best, irrelevant.

But, just because there is no testable evidence for something doesn't mean it doesn't exist, and atheism takes the polar opposite position of organised religion, rather than acknowledging that things could possibly exist beyond our own understanding.

Until there is any testable evidence, then the matter is subject to fanciful discussion only, not organizing into a belief system that aims to dictate how we should live our lives. For that one needs faith not predicated on fact.

Again, simply not believing in something for which there is no evidence is not a matter of faith.

(I was considering pointing out that atheists are probably more open to ideas and theories for which they have no evidence, and then set about trying to find that evidence.. as opposed to merely having faith and then constructing an entire belief system based on that faith but.. well I sort of just did..)

[Greater Beggnig]

Nothing can be proven. It can only be supported by evidence.

Fine, there is no testable evidence for God, hence one has to have faith to believe in one, there is plenty of testable evidence for science, hence it's not a faith. Since there is no testable evidence for God, it is not a function of faith to disregard the possibility as, at best, irrelevant.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/personal-incredulity

[Bombadil]

Fine, there is no testable evidence for God, hence one has to have faith to believe in one, there is plenty of testable evidence for science, hence it's not a faith. Since there is no testable evidence for God, it is not a function of faith to disregard the possibility as, at best, irrelevant.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/personal-incredulity

Lol.. whether intentional or not.

[Greater Beggnig]

Again, simply not believing in something for which there is no evidence is not a matter of faith.

But denying that it is even possible that it could exist is a matter of faith.

[Ardavia]

Again, simply not believing in something for which there is no evidence is not a matter of faith.

But denying that it is even possible that it could exist is a matter of faith.

And that is the difference between gnostics and agnostics.

[Kubrath]

Fine, there is no testable evidence for God, hence one has to have faith to believe in one, there is plenty of testable evidence for science, hence it's not a faith. Since there is no testable evidence for God, it is not a function of faith to disregard the possibility as, at best, irrelevant.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/personal-incredulity

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-fallacy-fallacy

[Greater Beggnig]

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/personal-incredulity

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-fallacy-fallacy

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-fallacy-fallacy

And so on.

[Kubrath]

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-fallacy-fallacy

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-fallacy-fallacy

And so on.

I disagree. https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque

[Kalgeron]

If Atheism is not a religion then it isn't protected under the first amendment, so it would seem that atheists should agree that it is a religion for their own good.

[Bombadil]

If Atheism is not a religion then it isn't protected under the first amendment, so it would seem that atheists should agree that it is a religion for their own good.

Eh?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

What can't we do here exactly?

[The United Powers World Command]

No, Atheism is not a faith, or centered around a faith-based claim.

It is simply the rejection of a faith-based claim.

[Maqo]

You believe that you exist, do you not? How is that not faith? You believe that those around you exist. That is faith. We all believe in something. Why is it an issue if atheism is a faith? That doesn't de-validate the position at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solipsism

Once we grapple with the concept that, the world may not 'really exist' and perhaps is just a figment of our own imaginations, one can simply accept that fact and attempt to understand and explore their 'reality'.

As I became an atheist, I struggled for a while with this concept. Perhaps my reality isn't 'real'. Maybe I made it up, maybe I'm part of someone else's existence, maybe we're all plugged in to the Matrix. But then... so what? Would I really live any differently? I accept that I can't possibly know the answer, and instead live as if reality is real. Related is the parody concept 'Last Thursdayism'.

I reject the claims of deities in the same way that I reject the claims of Russell's Teapot or the Tooth Fairy. And in many cases it is stronger: I think the available evidence disproves most of the deities described in various religious texts, and I will claim that I 'know' they do not exist to the same extent that I 'know' anything.