Worst American president in history?

[United Raptor Republic]

Obviously Obama.

Obama, Bush, and just about every other President other than FDR and Kennedy, and possibly Washington, oh and don't forget Lincoln XD

[Castille de Italia]

Jimmy Carter. The Iran Hostage Crisis was handled terribly, and waiting in long lines for rationed gas was mind-numbingly boring and horrific.

1.) Gas lines are worse than the Civil War 2.) and were directly caused by Jimmy Carter. 3.)Thank God Saint Reagan was there to bail us out 4.) by being an asshole who gave absolutely no shits in regards to human rights so long as we had Freedom and 5.) ended the Hostage Crisis by giving terrorists weapons.

6.) Jimmy Carter is only the worst President, hell, only a bad President, 7.) in the wet dreams of Conservatives who 8.) either weren't there and/or are sorely ignorant of the facts of the matter.

1.) I never said that.
2.) (From Wikipedia) ...during the 1979 crisis, Carter reinstated some price controls on gasoline, which again had the effect of causing lines at gasoline stations.
3.) Nailed it right there.
4.) I'm not aware that he was directly responsible for a mass genocide of people or the killing of political opposition leaders.
5.) The Contras terrorists? They were the legitimate government. Undermining the Sadinista socialist regime, which was aligned with the USSR, seems far more logical than letting them run the show.
6.) True.
7.) I don't think so.
8.) I was there. I'm not ignorant of the facts of the matter. I just have my opinion, based from my experiences, and it's that Carter was the worst US President.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

1.) Gas lines are worse than the Civil War 2.) and were directly caused by Jimmy Carter. 3.)Thank God Saint Reagan was there to bail us out 4.) by being an asshole who gave absolutely no shits in regards to human rights so long as we had Freedom and 5.) ended the Hostage Crisis by giving terrorists weapons.

6.) Jimmy Carter is only the worst President, hell, only a bad President, 7.) in the wet dreams of Conservatives who 8.) either weren't there and/or are sorely ignorant of the facts of the matter.

1.) I never said that.
2.) (From Wikipedia) ...during the 1979 crisis, Carter reinstated some price controls on gasoline, which again had the effect of causing lines at gasoline stations.
3.) Nailed it right there.
4.) I'm not aware that he was directly responsible for a mass genocide of people or the killing of political opposition leaders.
5.) The Contras terrorists? They were the legitimate government. Undermining the Sadinista socialist regime, which was aligned with the USSR, seems far more logical than letting them run the show.
6.) True.
7.) I don't think so.
8.) I was there. I'm not ignorant of the facts of the matter. I just have my opinion, based from my experiences, and it's that Carter was the worst US President.

Worse than Pierce, whose utter incompetence ended up leading to the Civil War?

Worse than Coolidge, whose irresponsible fiscal policies led to the Great Depression?

Look, Carter was mediocre to be sure, but he wasn't the worst by a long shot.

Oh, and the terrorists being referred to were the ones in Iran. You do remember that arms were sold to them by the U.S. government under Reagan's watch, right?

[WRIF Army]

Gauthier,

Did you seriously just claim that Clinton (Monicagate, impeachment....) didn't have to put up with as much partisan crap as Obama ? Which still confirms my statement that Obama, by his own admission and yours, doesn't solve problems, he makes excuses or in many cases, claims he didn't know.

Did you seriously just cite Media Matters as an objective source ? Are you bragging about the record increase in food stamps enrollment? Shouldn't you be bragging about an increase in high wage, middle class jobs? This is what the Obama 'recovery' looks like, and why many food stamp recipients have jobs but require government assistance:



Did you seriously just cite the New York Times as an objective source? Also, your 'objective' source dropped the ball on it's prediction that the economy would grow at an anemic 2% since the economy grew at 4% last quarter. It appears that the lefty economists cited by the Times are as clueless as Obama when predicting the future.

It seems that Obama and his supporters judge success by the increase in spending on welfare, unemployment insurance, food stamps, minimum wage law..... and less on identifying and correcting the causes of poverty, joblessness and low wages. This may be a good political strategy, but it is bad for societal prosperity.

Of course, Saddam wanted to look stronger to deter Iranian aggression, that strawman tidbit you offered does nothing to deflect the fact that he also wanted a nuclear weapon capability, he said so himself. And Niger has only one export product of note - uranium. And Niger only needs one import product of note - cash. Iraq had oil money and Iraq (like every tinhorn dictator in the Middle East) wanted uranium. But don't trust my word on this, listen to these statesmen politicians:

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
--Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
--Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by:
-- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
-Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
-- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by:
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them."
-- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
-- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do"
-- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
-- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

[Geilinor]

Did you seriously just cite the New York Times as an objective source? Also, your 'objective' source dropped the ball on it's prediction that the economy would grow at an anemic 2% since the economy grew at 4% last quarter. It appears that the lefty economists cited by the Times are as clueless as Obama when predicting the future.

The outcome was better than predicted and you're still complaining?

[Death Metal]

Did you seriously just cite the New York Times as an objective source? Also, your 'objective' source dropped the ball on it's prediction that the economy would grow at an anemic 2% since the economy grew at 4% last quarter. It appears that the lefty economists cited by the Times are as clueless as Obama when predicting the future.

The outcome was better than predicted and you're still complaining?

"The economy isn't growing fast enough! Impeach Obama!" "The economy is growing too fast! Impeach Obama!"- The dying screams of the GOP

[The Scientific States]

The outcome was better than predicted and you're still complaining?

"The economy isn't growing fast enough! Impeach Obama!" "The economy is growing too fast! Impeach Obama!"- The dying screams of the GOP

Congress doesn't let Obama get anything done.

Then they complain that Obama doesn't get anything done.

[WRIF Army]

Coolidge is the #1 president in history. I guess you prefer high tax rates, needless foreign wars, and high deficits

I guess you prefer strawmen.

No, he raped the economy and singlehandedly started the Depression. Fuck Coolidge.

Also, Coolidge's civil rights record is fraudulent. His Indian RIghts Bill did little to actually give Native Americans citizenship (in fact, this wouldn't happen until further legislation was passed by FDR)

Death Metal,

Didn't Coolidge advocate policies that let the people who earned the money, keep it? Do you have a fair and balanced source to support your statement?

If so, how does that make someone a rapist? I thought a rapist takes something by force, which is what government does when it taxes and redistributes wealth.

Also, for perspective, do you believe that Obama lied when he said 'you can keep your doctor'?

[The Scientific States]

I guess you prefer strawmen.

No, he raped the economy and singlehandedly started the Depression. Fuck Coolidge.

Also, Coolidge's civil rights record is fraudulent. His Indian RIghts Bill did little to actually give Native Americans citizenship (in fact, this wouldn't happen until further legislation was passed by FDR)

Death Metal,

Didn't Coolidge advocate policies that let the people who earned the money, keep it? Do you have a fair and balanced source to support your statement?

If so, how does that make someone a rapist? I thought a rapist takes something by force, which is what government does when it taxes and redistributes wealth.

Also, for perspective, do you believe that Obama lied when he said 'you can keep your doctor'?

Honestly, pick up an American History textbook, and you'll see that Coolidge's shitty economic policies caused the depression.

[WRIF Army]

Did you seriously just cite the New York Times as an objective source? Also, your 'objective' source dropped the ball on it's prediction that the economy would grow at an anemic 2% since the economy grew at 4% last quarter. It appears that the lefty economists cited by the Times are as clueless as Obama when predicting the future.

The outcome was better than predicted and you're still complaining?

Context my good man. I was pointing out that the predictions from the bias source that my esteemed debate partner cited were wrong by half. I also stated that it appears that Obama's predictions frequently go awry, or he claims he didn't know what was going on within his own administration.

[The Scientific States]

The outcome was better than predicted and you're still complaining?

Context my good man. I was pointing out that the predictions from the bias source that my esteemed debate partner cited were wrong by half. I also stated that it appears that Obama's predictions frequently go awry, or he claims he didn't know what was going on within his own administration.

Just because Obama occasionally makes false promises, it doesn't make him the worst president.

At least he didn't start a war because of a complete fucking lie, or allow the confederates to "secede."

[WRIF Army]

Death Metal,

Didn't Coolidge advocate policies that let the people who earned the money, keep it? Do you have a fair and balanced source to support your statement?

If so, how does that make someone a rapist? I thought a rapist takes something by force, which is what government does when it taxes and redistributes wealth.

Also, for perspective, do you believe that Obama lied when he said 'you can keep your doctor'?

Honestly, pick up an American History textbook, and you'll see that Coolidge's shitty economic policies caused the depression.

argumentum ad populum

Also, most economic historians are liberals. Something to do with government subsidies to education that increases their pay beyond what a peaceful and voluntary free market would offer them.

[WRIF Army]

Context my good man. I was pointing out that the predictions from the bias source that my esteemed debate partner cited were wrong by half. I also stated that it appears that Obama's predictions frequently go awry, or he claims he didn't know what was going on within his own administration.

Just because Obama occasionally makes false promises, it doesn't make him the worst president.

At least he didn't start a war because of a complete fucking lie, or allow the confederates to "secede."

Making false promises is indicative of lying, ignorance, or stupidity. Choose your poison. While starting wars are bad, losing them is probably worse and Obama will go down in history as snatching defeat from the jaws of victory in both Iraq AND Afghanistan, thereby losing more wars than all other presidents combined. Not an enviable record my good man.

[Frisivisia]

I guess you prefer strawmen.

No, he raped the economy and singlehandedly started the Depression. Fuck Coolidge.

Also, Coolidge's civil rights record is fraudulent. His Indian RIghts Bill did little to actually give Native Americans citizenship (in fact, this wouldn't happen until further legislation was passed by FDR)

Death Metal,

Didn't Coolidge advocate policies that let the people who earned the money, keep it? Do you have a fair and balanced source to support your statement?

If so, how does that make someone a rapist? I thought a rapist takes something by force, which is what government does when it taxes and redistributes wealth.

Also, for perspective, do you believe that Obama lied when he said 'you can keep your doctor'?

Coolidge's policies certainly let the wealthy keep their money, which seems somewhat different from what you said.

I don't think he really meant that Coolidge literally raped anyone and what the government does with taxation is neither rape nor wrong at all as well as being completely off topic.

It really depends, doesn't it? Don't go thinking you're setting up some devious trap with that question either, I can see what you're gunning for.

Listen, I'm sure in a few years when you're a liberal, your debate skills will be a little more bearable, less pedantic, and overall less high school debate-y, but for now it seems like you're arguing for the fight rather than the point.

[The Scientific States]

Honestly, pick up an American History textbook, and you'll see that Coolidge's shitty economic policies caused the depression.

argumentum ad populum

Also, most economic historians are liberals. Something to do with government subsidies to education that increases their pay beyond what a peaceful and voluntary free market would offer them.

Educate yourself.

http://www.ushistory.org/us/48.asp

The depression was caused by hyper free-market economics, and Coolidge was one of the causes of that.

[Frisivisia]

Just because Obama occasionally makes false promises, it doesn't make him the worst president.

At least he didn't start a war because of a complete fucking lie, or allow the confederates to "secede."

Making false promises is indicative of lying, ignorance, or stupidity. Choose your poison. While starting wars are bad, losing them is probably worse and Obama will go down in history as snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, thereby losing more wars than all other presidents combined. Not an enviable record my good man.

What a skillfully lain trap, I guess you win, Obama is a stupid, evil liar and Obama is the worst President ever. Now go off elsewhere while I discuss this with someone a bit less pedantic and sophistic.

[The Scientific States]

Just because Obama occasionally makes false promises, it doesn't make him the worst president.

At least he didn't start a war because of a complete fucking lie, or allow the confederates to "secede."

Making false promises is indicative of lying, ignorance, or stupidity. Choose your poison. While starting wars are bad, losing them is probably worse and Obama will go down in history as snatching defeat from the jaws of victory in both Iraq AND Afghanistan, thereby losing more wars than all other presidents combined. Not an enviable record my good man.

So he's a bad president because we withdrew troops from a costly war? Some presidents have done some really, really shitty things, but a few lies from Obama qualifies him as the worst president?

[Frisivisia]

Honestly, pick up an American History textbook, and you'll see that Coolidge's shitty economic policies caused the depression.

argumentum ad populum

Also, most economic historians are liberals. Something to do with government subsidies to education that increases their pay beyond what a peaceful and voluntary free market would offer them.

That's not an argumentum ad populum, and the fact that you used the Latin term doesn't make it any more convincing.

Also, if the experts are not on your side, the experts are probably not the ones who are wrong.

[Frisivisia]

Making false promises is indicative of lying, ignorance, or stupidity. Choose your poison. While starting wars are bad, losing them is probably worse and Obama will go down in history as snatching defeat from the jaws of victory in both Iraq AND Afghanistan, thereby losing more wars than all other presidents combined. Not an enviable record my good man.

So he's a bad president because we withdrew troops from a costly war? Some presidents have done some really, really shitty things, but a few lies from Obama qualifies him as the worst president?

Gotta love ridiculous sophistry.

[The Scientific States]

So he's a bad president because we withdrew troops from a costly war? Some presidents have done some really, really shitty things, but a few lies from Obama qualifies him as the worst president?

Gotta love ridiculous sophistry.

It gives me a chuckle.

I feel like people claim Obama is the worst president, simply because they lack knowledge on all other presidents. Either that or they're trying really hard to be political hipsters.

[WRIF Army]

argumentum ad populum

Also, most economic historians are liberals. Something to do with government subsidies to education that increases their pay beyond what a peaceful and voluntary free market would offer them.

Educate yourself.

http://www.ushistory.org/us/48.asp

The depression was caused by hyper free-market economics, and Coolidge was one of the causes of that.

The article you cited stated that the downturn that would eventually be followed by the Great Depression was caused by a bubble. if you read carefully, you will see that the author(s) contradict themselves by stating that the top 1% controlled 1/3 of assets resulting in the hoarding of wealth, yet at the same time the author(s) stated clearly that overspending/borrowing by the masses caused a bubble, hardly indicative of a lack of capital caused by hoarding at the top of the food chain. Also, whoever wrote the article incorrectly labeled Hoover a minimalist, every 1st year economics student knows this is wrong. Hoover was a progressive who advocated government interventionism in the economy. It would appear that whoever wrote the article really didn't have a clear understanding of what happened. I believe that the Austrian economists predicted the bubble in the 1920's. I invite you to read this account and compare to your ushistory.org snippet.


As an aside, the Austrians also warned about the housing bubble in the early and mid 2000's. The Austrians seemed to be very astute at predicting bubbles, both causes and consequences.

[United Raptor Republic]

I guess you prefer strawmen.

No, he raped the economy and singlehandedly started the Depression. Fuck Coolidge.

Also, Coolidge's civil rights record is fraudulent. His Indian RIghts Bill did little to actually give Native Americans citizenship (in fact, this wouldn't happen until further legislation was passed by FDR)

Death Metal,

Didn't Coolidge advocate policies that let the people who earned the money, keep it? Do you have a fair and balanced source to support your statement?

If so, how does that make someone a rapist? I thought a rapist takes something by force, which is what government does when it taxes and redistributes wealth.

Also, for perspective, do you believe that Obama lied when he said 'you can keep your doctor'?

Name one president that has not lied. You actually can't.

[WRIF Army]

Death Metal,

Didn't Coolidge advocate policies that let the people who earned the money, keep it? Do you have a fair and balanced source to support your statement?

If so, how does that make someone a rapist? I thought a rapist takes something by force, which is what government does when it taxes and redistributes wealth.

Also, for perspective, do you believe that Obama lied when he said 'you can keep your doctor'?

Name one president that has not lied. You actually can't.

Your statement seems to be a general condemnation of government because it's leaders are untrustworthy. Well done, I concur!

[Blakk Metal]

Death Metal,

Didn't Coolidge advocate policies that let the people who earned the money, keep it? Do you have a fair and balanced source to support your statement?

If so, how does that make someone a rapist? I thought a rapist takes something by force, which is what government does when it taxes and redistributes wealth.

Also, for perspective, do you believe that Obama lied when he said 'you can keep your doctor'?

Name one president that has not lied. You actually can't.

Name one person who hasn't lied.

[Death Metal]

Didn't Coolidge advocate policies that let the people who earned the money, keep it? Do you have a fair and balanced source to support your statement?

Your loaded question is loaded.

So I'll simply respond with simple facts, something Austrian economics doesn't deal in.

Let's start with the obvious: Trickle down economics does not work. It hasn't, nor has it ever, brought an era of continued prosperity. Trickle down economics is if anything a showing of the true colors of the so-called "libertarian" cadre, as it's a practice whose roots came not from capitalism, but from feudalism. The idea that if the nobles are wealthy, the peasants will reap the benefits is the very lie that was used to keep serfs in line for hundreds of years.

The backbone of an economy is not in the wealthy, it is in the producers. It has been proven, time and again, by credible economists, that the strongest economic booms stem from the prosperity of the working class, not the upper class. When you do things like Coolidge did, cut taxes too deep to provide a social safety net while deregulating markets to passively allow them to create coercive and exploitative practices that damage the prosperity of the working class in favor of the upper class. When this happens, a bust is inevitable. It happened after Coolidge, it happened in the 70s, it happened during the Reagan/Bush years, and it happened during the GWB years. Austrian voodoo and Nostradamian predictions mean little when you look at the sheer data.

Furthermore, Coolidge made the childish blunder of shrinking government too quickly as the nation was growing rapidly.

This is a thing even the Austrian economists realize is a blunder:

Far from advocating a "minimal state", we find it unquestionable that in an advanced society government ought to use its power of raising funds by taxation to provide a number of services which for various reasons cannot be provided or cannot be provided adequately by the market.
Hayek, "Law, Legislation, and Liberty" 1982

I am the last person to deny that increased wealth and the increased density of population have enlarged the number of collective needs which government can and should statisfy.
Hayek, New Studies

Even the broken clocks are right sometimes, it seems: Coolidge was a failure and a clown for attempting to shrink government during a boom period. He brought the bubble's burst upon himself. A self-fulfilling prophecy in every sense of the word.

Further empirical evidence of this can be seen in the Bush era: After the Clinton Era's age of prosperity and unheard of growth, Bush 43 unwisely cut taxes and social programs. And like all who learned not from history, when the housing bust began (a product of deregulation allowing exploitative and coercive tactics), the safety net wasn't there, and history was repeated. If Bush 43 had not made this blunder, or at the very least undid his changes when the economy started to crumble in 2004, the recession would have been minimalized if not averted.

Of course, that's not the Koch's false narrative, so I doubt you'll do anything but handwave my empirical data.

EDIT- Also, "let them keep what they earn" is a very, very transparent appeal to emotion. I'd accuse you of being AuSable but even he wasn't that bad at using loaded non-logic.