Worst American president in history?

[Philosophii]

if the bush administration got another 8 years, the country would be in a deep depression by now, if not civil war. we would suffer dozens of terrorist attacks each month, basically, the union would be effectively dissolved. and you know what? I would not blame them. the democrats, by then, would have an excuse for seceding. Bush would have ruined the country (if he was not assassinated by then, because lets face it, after 8 years, people were ready to drag him out of the white house in handcuffs, let alone 16) and al-quada would be laughing at us. China would emerge as a world superpower. New England (and maybe new york and new jersey would join them) would become a separate and thriving nation.

al-quada

Lyndon Johnson anyone?

[Frisivisia]

Because Americans are more important than dirty foreigners.


Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope.

I am thinking from an American perspective. If the Americans were not sent to the war than the foreigners would not have to die in the first place. Among the foreigners it is harder to tell who is good and bad, most Iraqis hate all non-Muslims so most of the are bad people, same for Afghans. My belief is that if we go to war than we should go in 100% and we should kill much more and take resources to profit from the war. Our soft approach means that the USA gains nothing and just loses things. If you win a war than you should get spoils from it, otherwise the war is useless and a waste of lives.

Either go to war to win or don't bother going at all. Most American presidents are too stupid to understand this simple principle.

I don't think you quite understand how war works and why we get involved in war, son, but as long as you feel like you're better than everyone else.

[UED]

I dislike Herbert Hoover for his handling of the Great Depression, lets not do !@#$ about the economy and hope it magically recovers!

[The rebellious states of broken femuris]

Nixon

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Oh, goodie, goalpost moving.

I'm not trying to say that Obama is a great President. He isn't. He's pretty good in some areas, and in over his head in others. The best that can be said about him is that I find him preferable to his predecessor. But what I am arguing is that if you're calling him the worst, then you lack historical knowledge, perspective, or both. Compare him to Pierce, to Garfield, to Hayes, to Coolidge, or to any one of a number of utter disasters.

Obama could have been a much better President with better choices in some areas, not to mention a Congress that wasn't infected with negrophobia.

That's a fair argument, and I'm not just saying that because it's one that I happen to agree with. Unfortunately, we can only judge on what is, and not what could have been.

[Frisivisia]

Jimmy Carter. The Iran Hostage Crisis was handled terribly, and waiting in long lines for rationed gas was mind-numbingly boring and horrific.

Gas lines are worse than the Civil War and were directly caused by Jimmy Carter. Thank God Saint Reagan was there to bail us out by being an asshole who gave absolutely no shits in regards to human rights so long as we had Freedom and ended the Hostage Crisis by giving terrorists weapons.

Jimmy Carter is only the worst President, hell, only a bad President, in the wet dreams of Conservatives who either weren't there and/or are sorely ignorant of the facts of the matter.

[Neu California]

Since I lack enough historical knowledge of all presidents to make an accurate judgment, I'll trust the historians at the United States Presidency Centre who said, in 2011, the following were the worst three (Source Cite 19 is what you want if you want to read the whole report)

38. Harding
39. Pierce
40. Buchanan

(note they didn't rate Obama (currently in office), Garfield, or Harrison (dead too quickly))

[Gauthier]

Jimmy Carter. The Iran Hostage Crisis was handled terribly, and waiting in long lines for rationed gas was mind-numbingly boring and horrific.

Gas lines are worse than the Civil War and were directly caused by Jimmy Carter. Thank God Saint Reagan was there to bail us out by being an asshole who gave absolutely no shits in regards to human rights so long as we had Freedom and ended the Hostage Crisis by giving terrorists weapons.

Jimmy Carter is only the worst President, hell, only a bad President, in the wet dreams of Conservatives who either weren't there and/or are sorely ignorant of the facts of the matter.

All the more hilarious given that today, Saint Reagan would be a "Pinko Socialist RINO".

[UED]

Since I lack enough historical knowledge of all presidents to make an accurate judgment, I'll trust the historians at the United States Presidency Centre who said, in 2011, the following were the worst three (Source Cite 19 is what you want if you want to read the whole report)

38. Harding
39. Pierce
40. Buchanan

(note they didn't rate Obama (currently in office), Garfield, or Harrison (dead too quickly))

Everyone knows Garfield was planning for the US to dominate the world...

[Gauthier]

Since I lack enough historical knowledge of all presidents to make an accurate judgment, I'll trust the historians at the United States Presidency Centre who said, in 2011, the following were the worst three (Source Cite 19 is what you want if you want to read the whole report)

38. Harding
39. Pierce
40. Buchanan

(note they didn't rate Obama (currently in office), Garfield, or Harrison (dead too quickly))

Everyone knows Garfield was planning for the US to dominate the world...

Garfield ordered the construction of Columbia?

[UED]

Everyone knows Garfield was planning for the US to dominate the world...

Garfield ordered the construction of Columbia?

Yes...
After his so called "death" he managed to transfer his soul to a cat, where he continues to plan for world domination to this day.

On a serious note, would Garfield have been a good president based on what he had done before his presidency?

[Seattile]

Garfield ordered the construction of Columbia?

Yes...
After his so called "death" he managed to transfer his soul to a cat, where he continues to plan for world domination to this day.

I knew there was something about that fat cat I found odd.

[Gauthier]

Yes...
After his so called "death" he managed to transfer his soul to a cat, where he continues to plan for world domination to this day.

I knew there was something about that fat cat I found odd.

When did you start having an urge to stroke the cat slowly and wear a Nehru jacket?

[Freiheit Reich]

I am thinking from an American perspective. If the Americans were not sent to the war than the foreigners would not have to die in the first place. Among the foreigners it is harder to tell who is good and bad, most Iraqis hate all non-Muslims so most of the are bad people, same for Afghans. My belief is that if we go to war than we should go in 100% and we should kill much more and take resources to profit from the war. Our soft approach means that the USA gains nothing and just loses things. If you win a war than you should get spoils from it, otherwise the war is useless and a waste of lives.

Either go to war to win or don't bother going at all. Most American presidents are too stupid to understand this simple principle.

I don't think you quite understand how war works and why we get involved in war, son, but as long as you feel like you're better than everyone else.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Art_of_War

Sun Tzu considered war as a necessary evil that must be avoided whenever possible. The war should be fought swiftly to avoid economic losses: "No long war ever profited any country: 100 victories in 100 battles is simply ridiculous. Anyone who excels in defeating his enemies triumphs before his enemy's threats become real". According to the book, one must avoid massacres and atrocities because this can provoke resistance and possibly allow an enemy to turn the war in his favor.[3] For the victor, "the best policy is to capture the state intact; it should be destroyed only if no other options are available".[3]

The USA did not end the wars in Vietnam, Iraq, or Afghanistan swiftly which is why we lost these wars (I hope you don't think we actually won the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan). The key would be to move in quick, kill the key leaders and then capture the state or better yet, don't bother getting into the war in the first place.

What were we trying to accomplish in going to war in those places? Iraq and Afghanistan are still backwards nations that lack religious freedom. They still have terrorism. We didn't gain any resources or territory. Do you think the USA profited from those wars?

A good leader should only go to war if it will benefit his nation. A good leader should be selfish and care about his nation's interests first.

[Sun Wukong]

I don't think you quite understand how war works and why we get involved in war, son, but as long as you feel like you're better than everyone else.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Art_of_War

Sun Tzu considered war as a necessary evil that must be avoided whenever possible. The war should be fought swiftly to avoid economic losses: "No long war ever profited any country: 100 victories in 100 battles is simply ridiculous. Anyone who excels in defeating his enemies triumphs before his enemy's threats become real". According to the book, one must avoid massacres and atrocities because this can provoke resistance and possibly allow an enemy to turn the war in his favor.[3] For the victor, "the best policy is to capture the state intact; it should be destroyed only if no other options are available".[3]

The USA did not end the wars in Vietnam, Iraq, or Afghanistan swiftly which is why we lost these wars (I hope you don't think we actually won the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan). The key would be to move in quick, kill the key leaders and then capture the state or better yet, don't bother getting into the war in the first place.

What were we trying to accomplish in going to war in those places? Iraq and Afghanistan are still backwards nations that lack religious freedom. They still have terrorism. We didn't gain any resources or territory. Do you think the USA profited from those wars?

A good leader should only go to war if it will benefit his nation. A good leader should be selfish and care about his nation's interests first.

New rule: anytime someone cites having read Sun Tzu as proof of their military expertise they immediately loose the argument.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I don't know. I think they've all done good and bad things, but if I'm to choose one, that would be George W. Bush. For obvious reasons. Sunk the nation into an economic recession, launched a war, invaded a country and killed its leader, acted like a douche, was a clown...

[Death Metal]

Andrew Jackson.

Followed closely by Coolidge and GW Bush.

[The Scientific States]

I don't know. I think they've all done good and bad things, but if I'm to choose one, that would be George W. Bush. For obvious reasons. Sunk the nation into an economic recession, launched a war, invaded a country and killed its leader, acted like a douche, was a clown...

George Bush was awful, although I still think Reagan, Jackson, Buchanan, Wilson, and Hoover were worse.

[Death Metal]

New rule: anytime someone cites having read Sun Tzu as proof of their military expertise they immediately loose the argument.

Book of Five Rings or GTFO.

[Freiheit Reich]

Andrew Jackson.

Followed closely by Coolidge and GW Bush.

Coolidge is the #1 president in history. I guess you prefer high tax rates, needless foreign wars, and high deficits

Coolidge cut taxes, cut the deficit, the USA had a great economy, and no foreign invasions and less people on welfare and he gave citizenship to Native Americans and he no rumors of extramarital affairs or drug use either during or before his presidency.

I suppose you are a fan of FDR. The man who sent Japanese people into internment camps and favored ridiculous tax rates and forced people to go into the military.

[WRIF Army]

Gauthier,

So, Bush and Obama's solution to prevent a Great Depression is to bail out the guys whose actions caused the Great Recession. Ouch. It is not racist to state a fact: Obama IS the food stamp president because this handout has expanded more under him than any other president. Correlation DOES equal causation when your the guy in charge, if not, then why are we paying and listening to a clown who can't influence anything and blames people not in power - Bush, Tea Party.....Clinton got things done working with Newt! FDR got things done (bad things) working with republicans who hated him, Reagan got things done......

The shutdown probably cost MORE than $24 billion, but it saved billions more by taking money out of the hands of pencil pushers and paper shufflers employed by a president who, by his own definition, can't get anything done. The shutdown preceded an economy that is finally coming out of its slumber. Fact is that Obama's predictions and scary stories never come true and his rosy scenarios are also wrong. And lastly, Saddam was trying to reconstitute his WMD, how do we know? He told us:

In fact, Piro says Saddam intended to produce weapons of mass destruction again, some day. "The folks that he needed to reconstitute his program are still there," Piro says.

"And that was his intention?" Pelley asks.

"Yes," Piro says.

"What weapons of mass destruction did he intend to pursue again once he had the opportunity?" Pelley asks.

"He wanted to pursue all of WMD. So he wanted to reconstitute his entire WMD program," says Piro.

"Chemical, biological, even nuclear," Pelley asks.

"Yes," Piro says.

From: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/interrogato ... essions/6/ (at the end of the story, page 6 of 6)

But I will concede that 10 years of sanctions by the dummies Bush I and Clinton I were stupid. I concede that invading Saddam by Bush II was stupid. In hindsight, we should have stay out of the fight between Iraq and Iran like Obama is doing in Syria. Sometimes a broken clock can be right, and Obama's habit of dysfunction and inaction is sometimes beneficial.

[WRIF Army]

I was surprised to find people defending a president who by his own definition, can't get things done. I think they defend this guy because of ideology rather than any basis in fact to the point where many Obama defenders are actually claiming that he didn't lie prior to the ACA implementation:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... n-keep-it/

My question is, do you guys still trust Obama or is it fair to call him a liar?

[European Socialist Republic]

Andrew Jackson.

Followed closely by Coolidge and GW Bush.

Coolidge is the #1 president in history. I guess you prefer high tax rates, needless foreign wars, and high deficits

Coolidge cut taxes, cut the deficit, the USA had a great economy, and no foreign invasions and less people on welfare and he gave citizenship to Native Americans and he no rumors of extramarital affairs or drug use either during or before his presidency.

I suppose you are a fan of FDR. The man who sent Japanese people into internment camps and favored ridiculous tax rates and forced people to go into the military.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

[Gauthier]

Gauthier,

So, Bush and Obama's solution to prevent a Great Depression is to bail out the guys whose actions caused the Great Recession. Ouch. It is not racist to state a fact: Obama IS the food stamp president because this handout has expanded more under him than any other president. Correlation DOES equal causation when your the guy in charge, if not, then why are we paying and listening to a clown who can't influence anything and blames people not in power - Bush, Tea Party.....Clinton got things done working with Newt! FDR got things done (bad things) working with republicans who hated him, Reagan got things done......

Neither Clinton, FDR nor Reagan had to put up with Congressional opposition so determined to force him out of office and negate his Presidential legacy that they blocked every single bill, every single appointment they made.

And as to the bunk that Obama is the Food Stamp President...

Right-Wing Media Forward Bogus Food Stamp Comparison

Comparison Of SNAP Enrollment To Job Growth Ignores That Millions Of Participants Have Jobs, Are Children, Elderly

More Than Half Of SNAP Participants Are Children, Elderly. According to a 2012 Department of Agriculture report on characteristics of households that receive SNAP, 45 percent of participants were under age 18 and nearly 9 percent were age 60 or older. [Department of Agriculture Food and Nutrition Service, November 2012]

Many SNAP Participants Have Jobs. According to the USDA report summary, more than 30 percent of SNAP households had income in 2011, and 41 percent of total participants lived in a household with earnings. [Department of Agriculture Food and Nutrition Service, November 2012]

Growing Number Of SNAP Participants Predates Obama Administration. According to the 2012 report from the USDA, the number of SNAP participants grew substantially during the early 1990s. The number of eligible SNAP participants also began to rise in 2001, and the number of eligible households has increased almost every fiscal year through 2011:

SNAP participants declined steadily through 2000 but began to rise in 2001 and increased each year through 2011, except for a slight dip in 2007. The increase was substantial from fiscal year 2010 to fiscal year 2011. Average monthly participation increased from 17.2 million individuals in fiscal year 2000 to 40.3 million in fiscal year 2010, and to 44.7 million in fiscal year 2011. [Department of Agriculture Food and Nutrition Service, November 2012]

The shutdown probably cost MORE than $24 billion, but it saved billions more by taking money out of the hands of pencil pushers and paper shufflers employed by a president who, by his own definition, can't get anything done. The shutdown preceded an economy that is finally coming out of its slumber. Fact is that Obama's predictions and scary stories never come true and his rosy scenarios are also wrong. And lastly, Saddam was trying to reconstitute his WMD, how do we know? He told us:

In fact, Piro says Saddam intended to produce weapons of mass destruction again, some day. "The folks that he needed to reconstitute his program are still there," Piro says.

"And that was his intention?" Pelley asks.

"Yes," Piro says.

"What weapons of mass destruction did he intend to pursue again once he had the opportunity?" Pelley asks.

"He wanted to pursue all of WMD. So he wanted to reconstitute his entire WMD program," says Piro.

"Chemical, biological, even nuclear," Pelley asks.

"Yes," Piro says.

From: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/interrogato ... essions/6/ (at the end of the story, page 6 of 6)

Have sources for that claim about the shutdown? I have mine.

Gridlock Has Cost U.S. Billions, and the Meter Is Still Running

Still, many businesses might not recover all the money they would have made had the government operated normally, said Shai Akabas of the Bipartisan Policy Center, a research group based in Washington.

The two-week shutdown has trimmed about 0.3 percentage point from fourth-quarter growth, or about $12 billion, the forecasting firm Macroeconomic Advisers, based in St. Louis, recently estimated. Standard & Poor’s is more pessimistic, estimating that the shutdown will cut about 0.6 percent off inflation-adjusted gross domestic product, equivalent to $24 billion. Most analysts are predicting that growth will remain subpar, at an annual pace of 2 percent or less.

Moreover, this latest budget impasse came after years of similar episodes, and the economic ramifications have accumulated over time, analysts say. A new report from Macroeconomic Advisers, prepared for the Peter G. Peterson Foundation, estimates the costs of the fiscal uncertainty of the last few years. Its model suggests that uncertainty since late 2009 has increased certain corporate borrowing costs by 0.38 percentage point; lowered economic growth over that period by 0.3 percent a year, costing at least $150 billion in lost output; and left this year’s unemployment rate higher by 0.6 percentage point. That translates to 900,000 jobs lost.

The unusually rapid pace of deficit reduction, concentrated on goods and services the government delivers, has had a further damping effect on growth, swamping the cost of the relatively brief shutdown, economists said. Macroeconomic Advisers estimated the impact at about 0.7 percentage points of G.D.P. a year, equivalent to over $300 billion in lost output over the last three years. Additional cuts would slow the economy even more, economists say.

“We are baffled by the idea that the pace of deficit reduction needs to be increased, given how rapidly the picture is improving already,” Ian Shepherdson, the chief economist of Pantheon Macroeconomics, wrote in a note to clients.

The 16-day shutdown itself has already led to the biggest plunge in consumer confidence since the collapse of Lehman Brothers in 2008. Howard R. Levine, the chief executive of Family Dollar Stores, said his customers, most with modest incomes, had pulled back on spending this month. “The threat of the shutdown, the uncertainty regarding some of the government assistance that our consumers receive, the uncertainty around job growth are very real to our customer every day,” Mr. Levine said.

The gridlock also had ripple effects on many industries that rely on the federal government in one way or another. Import inspections, export financing and the issuance of oil and gas permits all slowed.

Residential real estate, which has been one of the brightest points of the recovery, suffered. An index of sentiment among home builders fell in October from a month earlier, according to data released on Wednesday from the National Association of Home Builders. The decline was greater than analysts had expected. One cause for the decline is that the approval process for government-backed mortgages has slowed with the shutdown.

The damage to business has been intensified by the timing of the shutdown. “We’re in budget planning for 2014, so it casts a pall,” said John Selldorff, who runs the American operations of Legrand, a global manufacturer of electrical and data products based in France. “We are definitely pausing and being more careful.”

The impasse over the debt ceiling raised the United States’ short-term borrowing costs, with investors demanding triple the interest payments they received just a few weeks ago, in some cases. Concerns about the United States as a borrower may have a much longer and deeper effect than the shutdown, analysts say.

“Even with a deal to avoid a default, the damage has been done by the fact that we have had a debate questioning whether the U.S. will pay back its debt,” Laurence D. Fink, the chief executive of the money manager BlackRock, said Wednesday morning. That means higher borrowing costs in the United States and elsewhere.

While this fiscal impasse may be ending , many on Wall Street fear that Washington is not done.

“Then we can come back some time in December, January and February,” said Brian Gardner of Keefe, Bruyette & Woods, a New York investment bank, “and do this all over again.”

Good God, you can't even learn to read and properly process your own sources? Saddam wanted to someday restart a WMD program. That there alone shows he didn't have any running at any time prior to the Iraq Invasion. He never had one after Desert Storm and all those allegations were trash talk designed to keep Iran from seeing that Iraq was open to a military operation:

Saddam Hussein 'lied about WMDs to protect Iraq from Iran'

Saddam Hussein Said WMD Talk Helped Him Look Strong to Iran

Only a partisan hack like you would see Saddam someday wanting to restart a WMD program as a validation of the 24 Hours Threat that Dubya pushed as ground for invasion.

And it's cute how a blatant right-winger like you has Janeane Garofalo on a flag. Trying to be hip and ironic?

[Death Metal]

Andrew Jackson.

Followed closely by Coolidge and GW Bush.

Coolidge is the #1 president in history. I guess you prefer high tax rates, needless foreign wars, and high deficits

I guess you prefer strawmen.

No, he raped the economy and singlehandedly started the Depression. Fuck Coolidge.

Also, Coolidge's civil rights record is fraudulent. His Indian RIghts Bill did little to actually give Native Americans citizenship (in fact, this wouldn't happen until further legislation was passed by FDR)