Worst American president in history?

[Christian Isles]

Obama

Want to back this up with some facts?

look at roski's post

[Kelinfort]

Want to back this up with some facts?

look at roski's post

Cite your own facts.

Worst president: probably Hoover or Buchanan
http://www.usnews.com/news/slideshows/1 ... sidents/11
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22946672
http://askville.amazon.com/James-Buchan ... d=39976396

[Roski]

Want to back this up with some facts?

look at roski's post

Please don't rip off my post... I mean, I looked very hard for those facts in a legitimate form, don't just come in and take the credit, and most people said I was brain dead stupid... but still, those are facts I found that were on unbiased websites

[European Socialist Republic]

look at roski's post

Please don't rip off my post... I mean, I looked very hard for those facts in a legitimate form, don't just come in and take the credit, and most people said I was brain dead stupid... but still, those are facts I found that were on unbiased websites

There's no such thing.

[Roski]

Please don't rip off my post... I mean, I looked very hard for those facts in a legitimate form, don't just come in and take the credit, and most people said I was brain dead stupid... but still, those are facts I found that were on unbiased websites

There's no such thing.

There are websites that are mostly unbiased, and when you have the Democrats vs Republicans as it stands now, people vote for who they hate less.


Those biases are harder to find..

The Republican Party and Democratic Party have had good presidents, bad presidents, and ok presidents, but most of the recent on both sides have been terrible presidents, they really need to give these two parties have a rest... they are getting old

[Luxew]

I would have to say Jackson and his godawful policies that messed up reconstruction and reconcilation. Buchanan (Damn you James! You were suppose to make us Pennsylvanians proud!), Reagan, Bush, and Harding are high up on the list.

[Farnhamia]

You have very strange standards. Firstly, firing striking workers is not a mark of a good employer. They should listen to what the workers have to say.
It is illegal to strike as a federal employee

In addition, 3.35 an hour minimum wage is insufficient. Our current 7.25 an hour isn't enough.
Minimum wage exists in jobs not supposed to be life careers, like a fry cook in McDonalds.

Cutting funding to medicaid, food stamps, and the EPA is also a terrible idea.
Medicaid yes, Food Stamps and EPA are abused beyond control.

The SDI did absolutely nothing, and was a complete failure. It had nothing to do with the end of the cold war.
The Strategic Defense Initiative terrified the Soviet Union, and they worked hard to copy it, and "progress" of the SDI was leaked, and helped to lead the USSR into bankruptcy

Also, you completely neglected to mention the Iran Contra scandal, which was the one of the worst presidential scandals in the 20th century.
I could not find information on this on the particular site I was getting these facts from, I wasn't going to make an opinion on something I had no information on. But, I just looked up on it, and I agree it was bad, but worst scandal? The Clintons stole top secret information that could lead to an arrest on them, and the selling of arms to save lifes was the worst? OR the FDR implemented policies that started and prolonged the Great Depression, after the market had rebuilt itself. And no, it wasn't all on him, the Dust Bowl was also a major cause. Johnson and Nixon "policed" a war that ultimately caused the lives of several Americans, that they still lost.
Harry S. Truman had a police action in the Korean war, which started the "Police War" in Vietnam.

I do not believe that was the worst scandal by any measures

From your analysis of Reagan's presidency, I must conclude, good sir, that you are a half-assed idiot.
You conclude on a Liberal standpoint, and though I disagree wholeheartedly with your statements, I do not believe that this qualifies as weird, just different of your opinions.

And you, sir, should be glad that the *** warning for flaming *** you just got wasn't a ban.

[Roski]

You have very strange standards. Firstly, firing striking workers is not a mark of a good employer. They should listen to what the workers have to say.
It is illegal to strike as a federal employee

In addition, 3.35 an hour minimum wage is insufficient. Our current 7.25 an hour isn't enough.
Minimum wage exists in jobs not supposed to be life careers, like a fry cook in McDonalds.

Cutting funding to medicaid, food stamps, and the EPA is also a terrible idea.
Medicaid yes, Food Stamps and EPA are abused beyond control.

The SDI did absolutely nothing, and was a complete failure. It had nothing to do with the end of the cold war.
The Strategic Defense Initiative terrified the Soviet Union, and they worked hard to copy it, and "progress" of the SDI was leaked, and helped to lead the USSR into bankruptcy

Also, you completely neglected to mention the Iran Contra scandal, which was the one of the worst presidential scandals in the 20th century.
I could not find information on this on the particular site I was getting these facts from, I wasn't going to make an opinion on something I had no information on. But, I just looked up on it, and I agree it was bad, but worst scandal? The Clintons stole top secret information that could lead to an arrest on them, and the selling of arms to save lifes was the worst? OR the FDR implemented policies that started and prolonged the Great Depression, after the market had rebuilt itself. And no, it wasn't all on him, the Dust Bowl was also a major cause. Johnson and Nixon "policed" a war that ultimately caused the lives of several Americans, that they still lost.
Harry S. Truman had a police action in the Korean war, which started the "Police War" in Vietnam.

I do not believe that was the worst scandal by any measures

From your analysis of Reagan's presidency, I must conclude, good sir, that you are a half-assed idiot.
You conclude on a Liberal standpoint, and though I disagree wholeheartedly with your statements, I do not believe that this qualifies as weird, just different of your opinions.

And you, sir, should be glad that the *** warning for flaming *** you just got wasn't a ban.

Can I ask how this is flaming? All I did was post my disagreeances with the other poster and state that we have different opinions. How is this flaming?
Excuse me for asking this.

[Mike the Progressive]

I would have to say Jackson and his godawful policies that messed up reconstruction and reconcilation.

Yeah, damn it Jackson, as the 7th president, you were suppose to continue on the legacy of the 16th.

[Farnhamia]

And you, sir, should be glad that the *** warning for flaming *** you just got wasn't a ban.

Can I ask how this is flaming? All I did was post my disagreeances with the other poster and state that we have different opinions. How is this flaming?
Excuse me for asking this.

You called him "a half-assed idiot." That's flaming.

[Odvan]

The Presidents of the 1920's, Harding, Coolidge, and Hoover. They were insanely corrupt, let corporations do anything they wanted, espoused super-conservative policies (prohibition), led to the Great Depression, and cracked down hard with the military during the Bonus Army protests.

[Roski]

Can I ask how this is flaming? All I did was post my disagreeances with the other poster and state that we have different opinions. How is this flaming?
Excuse me for asking this.

You called him "a half-assed idiot." That's flaming.

No. I unqouted his thing so I could respond easier. He posted the top line of each paragraph so to speak, and I responded to it. My response is under the first line of each paragraph. Sorry for any confusion.

[Oppressed Slaver Union]

All of them?

[Grantica]

FDR, FDR, FDR.

You don't like him =/= worst

Well, it's his opinion. Of course he's going to pick a president he doesn't like as the worst.

[Roski]

Not only was it unjustified, if we had actually gone there to fight, and not police them, we could have lost fewer lives and actually won. I do not support the invasion of Vietnam, but we fucked up big time, and was part of the reason America became a laughing stalk.





On an unrelated note, let me address Reagan's term.
Excellent=2 Good=1 Neutral=0 Bad=-1 Terrible=-2
As soon as the term starts, he fires 11,000 workers that were on strike, the first president for a long time to actually have the balls to do so -Good
Reagan helped with the decrease of inflation, dropped it from 12.5 to 4.4 -Excellent
Unemployment rate fell from 7.5 to 5.4 -Good
Increased deficit and National Debt -Terrible
Heavily Increased defense -Excellent
TEFRA -Neutral
Job Training Partnership Act of 1982 -Good
Kept minimum wage at 3.35/hr -Excellent
"Reagan is viewed as an antitax hero despite raising taxes eleven times over the course of his presidency, all in the name of fiscal responsibility"
Reagan cut the budgets of non-military programs including Medicaid, food stamps, federal education programs and the EPA. -Good
In order to cover newly spawned federal budget deficits, the United States borrowed heavily both domestically and abroad, raising the national debt from $997 billion to $2.85 trillion -Terrible
Dropped several agreements being negotiated with the Soviets, wounding them financially -Excellent
Allowed people to use GPS freely -Excellent
Reagan introduced the Strategic Defense Initiative, a defense project -Excellent
SDI Hastened the end of the Cold War -Excellent
War on Drugs -Nuetral
Libya bombing -Terrible
Immigration -Excellent
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall! -Excellent
His decision to go public in 1983 regarding his wearing the small, audio-amplifying device boosted their sales -Excellent
Judiciary -Good

Overall, he gets a 16, meaning he was a decent president, by my standards

You have very strange standards. Firstly, firing striking workers is not a mark of a good employer. They should listen to what the workers have to say. In addition, 3.35 an hour minimum wage is insufficient. Our current 7.25 an hour isn't enough. Cutting funding to medicaid, food stamps, and the EPA is also a terrible idea. The SDI did absolutely nothing, and was a complete failure. It had nothing to do with the end of the cold war. Also, you completely neglected to mention the Iran Contra scandal, which was the one of the worst presidential scandals in the 20th century. From your analysis of Reagan's presidency, I must conclude, good sir, that you are a half-assed idiot.

Here is the original post moderator

[Farnhamia]

You called him "a half-assed idiot." That's flaming.

No. I unqouted his thing so I could respond easier. He posted the top line of each paragraph so to speak, and I responded to it. My response is under the first line of each paragraph. Sorry for any confusion.

Post a link to the thread you were "quoting" and I'll look at it. And from now on, just use the "Quote" button.

Never mind. I'll see what can be done about reversing it.

[Farnhamia]

Not only was it unjustified, if we had actually gone there to fight, and not police them, we could have lost fewer lives and actually won. I do not support the invasion of Vietnam, but we fucked up big time, and was part of the reason America became a laughing stalk.





On an unrelated note, let me address Reagan's term.
Excellent=2 Good=1 Neutral=0 Bad=-1 Terrible=-2
As soon as the term starts, he fires 11,000 workers that were on strike, the first president for a long time to actually have the balls to do so -Good
Reagan helped with the decrease of inflation, dropped it from 12.5 to 4.4 -Excellent
Unemployment rate fell from 7.5 to 5.4 -Good
Increased deficit and National Debt -Terrible
Heavily Increased defense -Excellent
TEFRA -Neutral
Job Training Partnership Act of 1982 -Good
Kept minimum wage at 3.35/hr -Excellent
"Reagan is viewed as an antitax hero despite raising taxes eleven times over the course of his presidency, all in the name of fiscal responsibility"
Reagan cut the budgets of non-military programs including Medicaid, food stamps, federal education programs and the EPA. -Good
In order to cover newly spawned federal budget deficits, the United States borrowed heavily both domestically and abroad, raising the national debt from $997 billion to $2.85 trillion -Terrible
Dropped several agreements being negotiated with the Soviets, wounding them financially -Excellent
Allowed people to use GPS freely -Excellent
Reagan introduced the Strategic Defense Initiative, a defense project -Excellent
SDI Hastened the end of the Cold War -Excellent
War on Drugs -Nuetral
Libya bombing -Terrible
Immigration -Excellent
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall! -Excellent
His decision to go public in 1983 regarding his wearing the small, audio-amplifying device boosted their sales -Excellent
Judiciary -Good

Overall, he gets a 16, meaning he was a decent president, by my standards

You have very strange standards. Firstly, firing striking workers is not a mark of a good employer. They should listen to what the workers have to say. In addition, 3.35 an hour minimum wage is insufficient. Our current 7.25 an hour isn't enough. Cutting funding to medicaid, food stamps, and the EPA is also a terrible idea. The SDI did absolutely nothing, and was a complete failure. It had nothing to do with the end of the cold war. Also, you completely neglected to mention the Iran Contra scandal, which was the one of the worst presidential scandals in the 20th century. From your analysis of Reagan's presidency, I must conclude, good sir, that you are a half-assed idiot.

*** Warned for flaming ***

Apologies to Roski.

[Grantica]

Not only was it unjustified, if we had actually gone there to fight, and not police them, we could have lost fewer lives and actually won. I do not support the invasion of Vietnam, but we fucked up big time, and was part of the reason America became a laughing stalk.





On an unrelated note, let me address Reagan's term.
Excellent=2 Good=1 Neutral=0 Bad=-1 Terrible=-2
As soon as the term starts, he fires 11,000 workers that were on strike, the first president for a long time to actually have the balls to do so -Good
Reagan helped with the decrease of inflation, dropped it from 12.5 to 4.4 -Excellent
Unemployment rate fell from 7.5 to 5.4 -Good
Increased deficit and National Debt -Terrible
Heavily Increased defense -Excellent
TEFRA -Neutral
Job Training Partnership Act of 1982 -Good
Kept minimum wage at 3.35/hr -Excellent
"Reagan is viewed as an antitax hero despite raising taxes eleven times over the course of his presidency, all in the name of fiscal responsibility"
Reagan cut the budgets of non-military programs including Medicaid, food stamps, federal education programs and the EPA. -Good
In order to cover newly spawned federal budget deficits, the United States borrowed heavily both domestically and abroad, raising the national debt from $997 billion to $2.85 trillion -Terrible
Dropped several agreements being negotiated with the Soviets, wounding them financially -Excellent
Allowed people to use GPS freely -Excellent
Reagan introduced the Strategic Defense Initiative, a defense project -Excellent
SDI Hastened the end of the Cold War -Excellent
War on Drugs -Nuetral
Libya bombing -Terrible
Immigration -Excellent
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall! -Excellent
His decision to go public in 1983 regarding his wearing the small, audio-amplifying device boosted their sales -Excellent
Judiciary -Good

Overall, he gets a 16, meaning he was a decent president, by my standards

You have very strange standards. Firstly, firing striking workers is not a mark of a good employer. They should listen to what the workers have to say.

In addition, 3.35 an hour minimum wage is insufficient. Our current 7.25 an hour isn't enough.

Cutting funding to medicaid, food stamps, and the EPA is also a terrible idea.

The SDI did absolutely nothing, and was a complete failure. It had nothing to do with the end of the cold war.

Also, you completely neglected to mention the Iran Contra scandal, which was the one of the worst presidential scandals in the 20th century.

From your analysis of Reagan's presidency, I must conclude, good sir, that you are a half-assed idiot.

Workers sometimes demand unreasonable things. If they can simply be fired, then their work is not valuable.

Raising minimum wage raises unemployment. It also gets the government into what should be a private contract. Moreover, 3 bucks went much farther back then. In fact, the minimum wage then is about equal to the minimum wage now.

Why should the feds be constitutionally in any of those areas? "General welfare" of the nation doesn't seem to cut it. Those issues should be state issues. If they can't be killed though, cutting is better.

Arguably, it helped collapse the USSR economically. The Russians just couldn't swing the kind of R&D such an arms race would have entailed.

That's debatable. Not sure it was one of the worst scandals. It's also debatable just how culpable Reagan was. It happened on his watch though, and that's never good.

I also notice that you ignored the objective positives of Reagan's presidency. Reduced unemployment, pushing the Russians to the edge of collapse, and spurring economic growth (after economic disaster during Carter's time) is bipartisan good stuff. He had his issues, but I think calling someone an "idiot" for calling Reagan "decent" is excessive.

Personally, I think he was well above average (mostly because most presidents have managed to drag the U.S. a little farther down the road of Statism), though I wish he would have been much tougher on fiscal concerns.

[Laurasia]

These are who I believe were the most mediocre Presidents:

James Buchanan: This President, the predecessor to perhaps the greatest President in American history, presided over the stages by which the South seceded from the Union, thus laying down the seeds for the Civil War. Believing that he did not have the authority to act against them but that secession was unlawful, he proved to be an utterly ineffective President. He also supported the proslavery Lecompton constitution in Kansas and acted, in effect, in a sort of acquiescence to the Dred Scott decision, one of the worst decisions in American judicial history. Buchanan was the worst president of the pre-Civil War era.

Andrew Johnson: One of the most racist Presidents in American History, this man should never have been chosen as Abraham Lincoln's running mate in 1864. Although he was a pro-Unionist, and the only Southern Senator from the Seceding States who remained in Washington D.C., he nevertheless did not deserve to lead the country in the aftermath of Lincoln's assassination. He believed in white supremacy; sought to downscale or hamper Congressional Reconstruction plans; and was in support of matters in the South returning, in many ways, to what they had been before. Johnson was unwilling to work effectively with Congress and was consequently impeached. He was the worst president in American history between Lincoln and Nixon.

Warren G. Harding: Harding was oblivious to the extensive corruption and to the many scandals which occurred in his administration. Chief among these scandals were the Teapot Dome Scandal. He was not, however, the worst president in American history. Buchanan, Johnson, and to a extent, George W. Bush, all should fall lower in the rankings then Harding. Harding did preside over the creation of the Office of the Budget, the Washington Naval Treaty, and he was one of the earliest Presidents in the 20th century to support civil rights measures. Nevertheless, that does not excuse him from the scandals which took place within his administration.

Herbert Hoover: Hoover is a classic example of a terrible President preceding a great one. Just as Buchanan had preceded Lincoln, he in turn preceded Roosevelt. Hoover did little to help Americans suffering from the ravages of the Great Depression, believing that government handouts would damage the work ethic of the American people. He seemed cold and aloof to many; he was not fit to preside over the nation in a time of great economic crisis. Hoover, however, was again, not the worst President, and his humanitarian efforts in the aftermath of both World Wars deserve praise.

Richard Nixon: Nixon was probably the most dishonest and corrupt President in the history of the United States, far worse, in my opinion, then Warren G. Harding. All I need to say is this: the Watergate Scandal. His complicity in that scandal tarnished the prestige of the Presidency and further aggravated the troubles impacting the United States during the 1970s.

George W. Bush: Bush is probably the worst president in recent times, and certainly worse than any other president following Nixon. He dragged us into two costly and long conflicts, neither of which has yielded any benefits for the United States and indeed, has inflamed Islamic radicalism. He caused the national deficit to rise significantly, and he lied to the American people. He abused the powers of the Presidency and went out of his way with the Patriot Act. Bush was ignorant and should have never become President.

Now, I can't get the people who say Franklin Roosevelt was a bad President. Like any President, he had his faults: namely, the Supreme Court Packing scheme, the internment of Japanese-Americans during World War II, and his failure to act decisively for African-American civil rights, in particular to act against lynching. Nevertheless, in general, his economic policies gave hope to the American people, and his leadership in World War II resulted in a greater position for the United States in the world. Barrack Obama, on the other hand, is not one of the worst Presidents in American history: he is mediocre. Obama did not have the experience to be President; he did not have the know-how; and he displays shocking ignorance in many circumstances. He did not fulfill many of his campaign promises; he has proved unable to cooperate effectively with Congress without provoking a government shutdown; and he is a liar, dishonest to the American people Nevertheless, he is not nearly as bad as Bush, and certainly a far better President then Harding, Johnson, Buchanan, or Grant (who I forgot to mention)....However, Obama will go down in the history books as being a "average" President.

[Grantica]

Excluding the present one who has not yet finished his terms, I have two worst presidents: Andrew Jackson and FDR.

Andrew Jackson repeatedly ignored Congress. He acted unconstitutionally even against the express ruling of the Supreme Court. He effectively acted like he had no checks or balances. Rotten president. His most famous ignoring of the Law resulted in the illegal Trail of Tears.

FDR greatly expanded the role of government with the New Deal. His projects only served to alleviate some pain but not actually get us out of the Depression. Instead, that growth happened pretty naturally. Meanwhile, the Federal Government became huge, and a lot of the programs we are unconstitutionally saddled with now came from him. He also did not work with Truman even when he knew he was sick. This left Truman in charge of a war he didn't have any experience with. This is FDR's fault. Moreover, FDR did not anticipate the Russian threat, even though many around him did.

[Freiheit Reich]

2nd worst: FDR-love of big govt. socialism caused problems we are suffering for today, wanted 100% for incomes above a certain level

Are we talking about FDR or the Kingfish here?

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-would-y ... -tax-rate/

In April 1942, just a few short months after the attack, President Roosevelt proposed a 100% top rate. At a time of "grave national danger," he argued, "no American citizen ought to have a net income, after he has paid his taxes, of more than $25,000 a year." (That's roughly $300,000 in today's dollars).

[Freiheit Reich]

The Presidents of the 1920's, Harding, Coolidge, and Hoover. They were insanely corrupt, let corporations do anything they wanted, espoused super-conservative policies (prohibition), led to the Great Depression, and cracked down hard with the military during the Bonus Army protests.

Harding and Hoover were bad but Coolidge is possibly the finest president in US history.

He decreased taxes, decreased the national debt (yes-we CAN do both at the same time if we use common sense), he gave native Americans citizenship (a long time coming), he didn't have any serious scandals, he seemed to have good morals (no mention of extramarital affairs), doubtful that he used cocaine (unlike Bush or Obama), he didn't have massive increases in welfare spending, and he didn't drag us into unnecessary foreign wars.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Are we talking about FDR or the Kingfish here?

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-would-y ... -tax-rate/

In April 1942, just a few short months after the attack, President Roosevelt proposed a 100% top rate. At a time of "grave national danger," he argued, "no American citizen ought to have a net income, after he has paid his taxes, of more than $25,000 a year." (That's roughly $300,000 in today's dollars).

Ah, right. So you're stating that something that he proposed as an emergency measure during wartime is something that reflected his general political outlook.

[Freiheit Reich]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-would-y ... -tax-rate/

In April 1942, just a few short months after the attack, President Roosevelt proposed a 100% top rate. At a time of "grave national danger," he argued, "no American citizen ought to have a net income, after he has paid his taxes, of more than $25,000 a year." (That's roughly $300,000 in today's dollars).

Ah, right. So you're stating that something that he proposed as an emergency measure during wartime is something that reflected his general political outlook.

He was pro-high tax throughout his presidency-this was just the highest rate he proposed. It is still a stupid idea. If tax rates are 100% than who would be stupid enough to keep working and hinestly report any income at above that rate ($25,000 in this case)? Do you want to work for free? This would encourage money laundering or people would just stop working in the middle of the year when they hit a certain income mark.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Ah, right. So you're stating that something that he proposed as an emergency measure during wartime is something that reflected his general political outlook.

He was pro-high tax throughout his presidency-this was just the highest rate he proposed. It is still a stupid idea. If tax rates are 100% than who would be stupid enough to keep working and hinestly report any income at above that rate ($25,000 in this case)? Do you want to work for free? This would encourage money laundering or people would just stop working in the middle of the year when they hit a certain income mark.

Yes, people HATE working during wartime, and refuse to make sacrifices to keep the effort going. That's what World War II was all about: saying "Screw the military, I'm making bank".

Look, I don't think that it would have been a good idea, either. But you can't realistically say that this was something that he wanted to see as a normal part of American policy, any more than you can say that he favored ration books as a method of food distribution.