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2016 NFL Offseason

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Will the Broncos make the playoffs in 2016?

Yes
37
35%
No
30
28%
The Raiders have a better chance
39
37%
 
Total votes : 106

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Tiami
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Postby Tiami » Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:30 pm

Idzequitch wrote:
Armeia wrote:I'm surprised anyone takes Tim Tebow half seriously.

I'm surprised anyone takes bandwagon Tebow haters seriously.

I'm surprised three games can apparently decide a professional quarterback's career.
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Idzequitch
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Postby Idzequitch » Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:38 pm

Tiami wrote:
Idzequitch wrote:I'm surprised anyone takes bandwagon Tebow haters seriously.

I'm surprised three games can apparently decide a professional quarterback's career.

Didn't you know? The fans are so smart that they decide everything now. Hell, Jameis Winston is already a bust, and he hasn't even been drafted yet.
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Bythyrona
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Postby Bythyrona » Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:47 pm

Idzequitch wrote:
Armeia wrote:I'm surprised anyone takes Tim Tebow half seriously.

I'm surprised anyone takes bandwagon Tebow haters seriously.

I'm surprised anyone could forget 46.5% completion percentage.
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Idzequitch
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Postby Idzequitch » Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:49 pm

Bythyrona wrote:
Idzequitch wrote:I'm surprised anyone takes bandwagon Tebow haters seriously.

I'm surprised anyone could forget 46.5% completion percentage.

I'm not saying he's a great QB. He's not. I will say that he is an adequate QB, if given a proper supporting cast. He proved that in Denver.
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Tiami
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Postby Tiami » Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:54 pm

Idzequitch wrote:
Bythyrona wrote:I'm surprised anyone could forget 46.5% completion percentage.

I'm not saying he's a great QB. He's not. I will say that he is an adequate QB, if given a proper supporting cast. He proved that in Denver.

9-7 overal record as starter and one playoff win. Hell, Matt Ryan has one playoff win and he's a pretty damn good quarterback.
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Bythyrona
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Postby Bythyrona » Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:54 pm

Idzequitch wrote:
Bythyrona wrote:I'm surprised anyone could forget 46.5% completion percentage.

I'm not saying he's a great QB. He's not. I will say that he is an adequate QB, if given a proper supporting cast. He proved that in Denver.

The NFL is a passing league. Tebow is not a passing QB. He is not... passable.
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Outer Sparta
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Postby Outer Sparta » Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:55 pm

Right now, the top two QBs on the Eagle's depth chart are Big Foot and Butt Fumble!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Last edited by Outer Sparta on Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bythyrona
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Postby Bythyrona » Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:59 pm

Outer Sparta wrote:Right now, the top two QBs on the Eagle's depth chart are Big Foot and Butt Fumble!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I'm sorry, Dirty Sanchez can't hear you over dragging one of most useless offenses in the NFL to two AFC Championship games and your overabundant use of smileys.

Bythyrona wrote:Mark Sanchez is Joe Flacco if he's drafted somewhere else. Those Jets offenses were downright talentless shit - fuck Braylon "0 CTH" Edwards. Sanchez is 4-2 in playoff games. I'm not saying I would lean on him at this point as a starter, but he's definitely great backup material. The Dirty Sanchez Hate Train has always ignored the far bigger problem of those Jets teams: terrible coaching (HURRDURR QB PLATOON SYSTEM HURRDURR) and downright moronic GMing by Idzik.
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Idzequitch
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Postby Idzequitch » Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:06 pm

Tiami wrote:
Idzequitch wrote:I'm not saying he's a great QB. He's not. I will say that he is an adequate QB, if given a proper supporting cast. He proved that in Denver.

9-7 overal record as starter and one playoff win. Hell, Matt Ryan has one playoff win and he's a pretty damn good quarterback.

Which only proves my point. He's has an above .500 winning percentage, and has as many playoff wins as Ryan, who, I agree, is a very good QB. You won't win the Super Bowl with Tebow, and he's isn't of starter caliber, but if you surround him with decent talent, he'll do better than the majority of backup QB's in the league.
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Outer Sparta
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Postby Outer Sparta » Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:11 pm

In other news, Greg Hardy has been suspended 10 games. Good job Cowboys. Good job.
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Bythyrona
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Postby Bythyrona » Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:13 pm

Idzequitch wrote:
Tiami wrote:9-7 overal record as starter and one playoff win. Hell, Matt Ryan has one playoff win and he's a pretty damn good quarterback.

Which only proves my point. He's has an above .500 winning percentage, and has as many playoff wins as Ryan, who, I agree, is a very good QB. You won't win the Super Bowl with Tebow, and he's isn't of starter caliber, but if you surround him with decent talent, he'll do better than the majority of backup QB's in the league.

Most backup QBs can complete >50% of their passes, so no, he's really not.
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Idzequitch
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Postby Idzequitch » Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:26 pm

Bythyrona wrote:
Idzequitch wrote:Which only proves my point. He's has an above .500 winning percentage, and has as many playoff wins as Ryan, who, I agree, is a very good QB. You won't win the Super Bowl with Tebow, and he's isn't of starter caliber, but if you surround him with decent talent, he'll do better than the majority of backup QB's in the league.

Most backup QBs can complete >50% of their passes, so no, he's really not.

Most backup QB's don't win playoff games. Hell, even Romo hasn't done that. Nor has Stafford, Dalton, or Newton.
Looking at the projected 2nd String QB's for every team this year, I'd take Tebow over almost all of them. We're talking about guys like Blaine Gabbert, Mike Glennon, Colt McCoy, and Ryan Lindley. If you wouldn't rather have Tebow than those guys, I don't have anything more to say to you.
Last edited by Idzequitch on Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bythyrona
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Founded: Nov 21, 2011
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Postby Bythyrona » Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:33 pm

Idzequitch wrote:
Bythyrona wrote:Most backup QBs can complete >50% of their passes, so no, he's really not.

Most backup QB's don't win playoff games. Hell, even Romo hasn't done that. Nor has Stafford, Dalton, or Newton.
Looking at the projected 2nd String QB's for every team this year, I'd take Tebow over almost all of them. We're talking about guys like Blaine Gabbert, Mike Glennon, Colt McCoy, and Ryan Lindley. If you wouldn't rather have Tebow than those guys, I don't have anything more to say to you.

I most certainly would rather have a Captain Checkdown in Glennon than a media circus who can't meet the bare minimum of standards to be an NFL QB. I'd rather have Tebow than Gabbert, and that's it.
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Idzequitch
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Postby Idzequitch » Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:43 pm

Bythyrona wrote:
Idzequitch wrote:Most backup QB's don't win playoff games. Hell, even Romo hasn't done that. Nor has Stafford, Dalton, or Newton.
Looking at the projected 2nd String QB's for every team this year, I'd take Tebow over almost all of them. We're talking about guys like Blaine Gabbert, Mike Glennon, Colt McCoy, and Ryan Lindley. If you wouldn't rather have Tebow than those guys, I don't have anything more to say to you.

I most certainly would rather have a Captain Checkdown in Glennon than a media circus who can't meet the bare minimum of standards to be an NFL QB. I'd rather have Tebow than Gabbert, and that's it.

And yet Glennon is 5-13 as a starter. McCoy's 7-18. Lindley has only won a single game. Tebow has a winning record, and the win/loss column is really the only stat that matters. I'd rather go to the Super Bowl with Rex Grossman, than miss the playoffs with Tom Brady.
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Bythyrona
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Postby Bythyrona » Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:02 pm

Idzequitch wrote:
Bythyrona wrote:I most certainly would rather have a Captain Checkdown in Glennon than a media circus who can't meet the bare minimum of standards to be an NFL QB. I'd rather have Tebow than Gabbert, and that's it.

And yet Glennon is 5-13 as a starter. McCoy's 7-18. Lindley has only won a single game. Tebow has a winning record, and the win/loss column is really the only stat that matters. I'd rather go to the Super Bowl with Rex Grossman, than miss the playoffs with Tom Brady.

...so you'd rather have a team with talent that makes a shitty QB look good. If you're seriously suggesting a team with a great surrounding cast makes a shitty QB somehow not shitty, I've got nothing more to say to you, because that's patently fucking absurd. Tom Brady over Rex Grossman. :rofl: I haven't laughed that hard in awhile.
Last edited by Bythyrona on Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Idzequitch
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Postby Idzequitch » Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:13 pm

Bythyrona wrote:
Idzequitch wrote:And yet Glennon is 5-13 as a starter. McCoy's 7-18. Lindley has only won a single game. Tebow has a winning record, and the win/loss column is really the only stat that matters. I'd rather go to the Super Bowl with Rex Grossman, than miss the playoffs with Tom Brady.

...so you'd rather have a team with talent that makes a shitty QB look good. If you're seriously suggesting a team with a great surrounding cast makes a shitty QB somehow not shitty, I've got nothing more to say to you, because that's patently fucking absurd. Tom Brady over Rex Grossman. :rofl: I haven't laughed that hard in awhile.

I'd rather have a good team with a subpar QB than a bad team with a good QB, yes. Contrary to popular belief, the quarterback does not the entire team make.
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Bythyrona
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Postby Bythyrona » Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:32 pm

Idzequitch wrote:
Bythyrona wrote:...so you'd rather have a team with talent that makes a shitty QB look good. If you're seriously suggesting a team with a great surrounding cast makes a shitty QB somehow not shitty, I've got nothing more to say to you, because that's patently fucking absurd. Tom Brady over Rex Grossman. :rofl: I haven't laughed that hard in awhile.

I'd rather have a good team with a subpar QB than a bad team with a good QB, yes. Contrary to popular belief, the quarterback does not the entire team make.

Too bad I wasn't talking about the team around a QB. Also, W-L record is an utterly useless metric.

http://www.footballperspective.com/matt ... ive-value/
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Idzequitch
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Postby Idzequitch » Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:37 pm

Bythyrona wrote:
Idzequitch wrote:I'd rather have a good team with a subpar QB than a bad team with a good QB, yes. Contrary to popular belief, the quarterback does not the entire team make.

Too bad I wasn't talking about the team around a QB. Also, W-L record is an utterly useless metric.

http://www.footballperspective.com/matt ... ive-value/

Except you were. Record isn't necessarily a tangible indicator of future success or failure, but it's what matters. I'd rather have a QB who wins more often than not.
Last edited by Idzequitch on Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Bythyrona
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Postby Bythyrona » Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:03 pm

Idzequitch wrote:
Bythyrona wrote:Too bad I wasn't talking about the team around a QB. Also, W-L record is an utterly useless metric.

http://www.footballperspective.com/matt ... ive-value/

Except you were. Record isn't necessarily a tangible indicator of future success or failure, but it's what matters. I'd rather have a QB who wins more often than not.

No, I wasn't. I was talking about an individual QB's skill, or Tebow's lack thereof.

wat

That statement makes no sense. At all. A QB who can COMPLETE A PASS is far more likely to win than one who can't. You're ignoring everything that article said, which blatantly refutes the ignorant and obsolete notion that QB wins matters.

Stafford has a 17-28 career record, which in light of his recent contract extension, has caused people to criticize the Lions for giving big money to a player who is not a “winner.” There are legitimate reasons to criticize Stafford, so why would people fall back on statements like this? I’m sure Lions fans wish the team had won more games under Stafford, but that’s in the past. The real question — and the one faced by Lions management before giving him the extension — is whether his current career record has any predictive value when it comes to his future record. [...] In [Steve] Young’s case, he went from the worst team in the league to the best, which helps to explain why his winning percentage went through the roof. That’s also a good counter to the argument of using records to judge quarterbacks.


QB wins is one of the meaningless statistics in all of sports, and it's utterly laughable that you assert anything to the contrary. "All he does is win" is a phrase only meaning that a bad QB lucked out on a good team.
Last edited by Bythyrona on Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Maurepas
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Postby Maurepas » Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:30 pm

Idzequitch wrote:I'd rather have a good team with a subpar QB than a bad team with a good QB, yes. Contrary to popular belief, the quarterback does not the entire team make.

I disagree, just due to the nature of what the game has become. I've seen Tom Brady take subpar teams deep in the playoffs consistently. I've seen Houston consistently fail to make the playoffs.

The difference is in QB play. A Franchise QB is the lynchpin of any decent team in the NFL. The past decade has really borne this out through the haves and the have-nots.

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Maurepas
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Postby Maurepas » Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:33 pm

Tiami wrote:
Idzequitch wrote:I'm surprised anyone takes bandwagon Tebow haters seriously.

I'm surprised three games can apparently decide a professional quarterback's career.

I wouldn't take Tebow seriously on just about any other team. But Kelly is in a major rebuilding mode, and if he has the desire to do it(and I'm not sure he does, there's no reason to think this was anything but him taking on a vanity project) and is willing to build a team around playing to Tebow's strengths with a lot of Option and running, of which Kelly likes to do, then he could be successful. I think Tebow's biggest problems thus far have been teams unwilling to commit to him, he's been expected to run offenses designed around Tom Brady or Peyton Manning, and of course he's going to come up short in that scenario. He's garbage in that system. But Kelly's system? I think it could work if Kelly is willing to commit.

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Tiami
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Postby Tiami » Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:46 pm

Maurepas wrote:
Tiami wrote:I'm surprised three games can apparently decide a professional quarterback's career.

I wouldn't take Tebow seriously on just about any other team. But Kelly is in a major rebuilding mode, and if he has the desire to do it(and I'm not sure he does, there's no reason to think this was anything but him taking on a vanity project) and is willing to build a team around playing to Tebow's strengths with a lot of Option and running, of which Kelly likes to do, then he could be successful. I think Tebow's biggest problems thus far have been teams unwilling to commit to him, he's been expected to run offenses designed around Tom Brady or Peyton Manning, and of course he's going to come up short in that scenario. He's garbage in that system. But Kelly's system? I think it could work if Kelly is willing to commit.

I'm all for Tebow, but I was referring to Johnny Manziel. :P
Last edited by Tiami on Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tiami
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Postby Tiami » Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:48 pm

Bythyrona wrote:
Idzequitch wrote:Except you were. Record isn't necessarily a tangible indicator of future success or failure, but it's what matters. I'd rather have a QB who wins more often than not.

No, I wasn't. I was talking about an individual QB's skill, or Tebow's lack thereof.

wat

That statement makes no sense. At all. A QB who can COMPLETE A PASS is far more likely to win than one who can't. You're ignoring everything that article said, which blatantly refutes the ignorant and obsolete notion that QB wins matters.

Stafford has a 17-28 career record, which in light of his recent contract extension, has caused people to criticize the Lions for giving big money to a player who is not a “winner.” There are legitimate reasons to criticize Stafford, so why would people fall back on statements like this? I’m sure Lions fans wish the team had won more games under Stafford, but that’s in the past. The real question — and the one faced by Lions management before giving him the extension — is whether his current career record has any predictive value when it comes to his future record. [...] In [Steve] Young’s case, he went from the worst team in the league to the best, which helps to explain why his winning percentage went through the roof. That’s also a good counter to the argument of using records to judge quarterbacks.


QB wins is one of the meaningless statistics in all of sports, and it's utterly laughable that you assert anything to the contrary. "All he does is win" is a phrase only meaning that a bad QB lucked out on a good team.

While irrelevant, Stafford has a career record of 35-44. He's closing the the gap.
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Postby Maurepas » Wed Apr 22, 2015 6:11 pm

Tiami wrote:I'm all for Tebow, but I was referring to Johnny Manziel. :P

Ah, well the two comments that were quoted were Tebow related, lol. I think what's going to kill Manziel's career is his off the field antics more than his play. The parties and the rehab, and the hype, those things do way more to hurt him than what he's done on the field, primarily because they make people not want to see him play more than those three games.

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Idzequitch
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Postby Idzequitch » Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:00 am

Bythyrona wrote:
Idzequitch wrote:Except you were. Record isn't necessarily a tangible indicator of future success or failure, but it's what matters. I'd rather have a QB who wins more often than not.

No, I wasn't. I was talking about an individual QB's skill, or Tebow's lack thereof.

wat

That statement makes no sense. At all. A QB who can COMPLETE A PASS is far more likely to win than one who can't. You're ignoring everything that article said, which blatantly refutes the ignorant and obsolete notion that QB wins matters.

Stafford has a 17-28 career record, which in light of his recent contract extension, has caused people to criticize the Lions for giving big money to a player who is not a “winner.” There are legitimate reasons to criticize Stafford, so why would people fall back on statements like this? I’m sure Lions fans wish the team had won more games under Stafford, but that’s in the past. The real question — and the one faced by Lions management before giving him the extension — is whether his current career record has any predictive value when it comes to his future record. [...] In [Steve] Young’s case, he went from the worst team in the league to the best, which helps to explain why his winning percentage went through the roof. That’s also a good counter to the argument of using records to judge quarterbacks.


QB wins is one of the meaningless statistics in all of sports, and it's utterly laughable that you assert anything to the contrary. "All he does is win" is a phrase only meaning that a bad QB lucked out on a good team.

Might I point out that Stafford's record was only that bad because he had no supporting cast? Though respectable now, the Lions were the laughingstock of the league when he joined the team. He's a good quarterback, but not even Peyton or Brady would have been able to win on that team. In much the same way, Tebow had the proper supporting cast to win in Denver, but not with the Jets, not that he was even given a chance there. Was he elite? Hell no. Was he good? Not statistically, no. Was he adequate? Yes, and you may remember that that was my original argument. Tebow is probably never going to be an everyday starter, especially with the idiotic media circus that follows him everywhere he goes. He is, however, good enough to be the backup somewhere. Easily.
Maurepas wrote:
Idzequitch wrote:I'd rather have a good team with a subpar QB than a bad team with a good QB, yes. Contrary to popular belief, the quarterback does not the entire team make.

I disagree, just due to the nature of what the game has become. I've seen Tom Brady take subpar teams deep in the playoffs consistently. I've seen Houston consistently fail to make the playoffs.

The difference is in QB play. A Franchise QB is the lynchpin of any decent team in the NFL. The past decade has really borne this out through the haves and the have-nots.

I see what you're saying, and I respect your opinion, but I stand by my earlier statement. There is no doubt that having a good quarterback significantly increases a team's chances of being successful, but at the same time, this isn't the NBA. LeBron isn't here to take a team of nobodies to the championship. Brady has been impressive in making due with the team he has, but I wouldn't describe any of those teams as subpar. It's a quarterback-heavy league, but with the right players in other positions, you can do without a great QB (See: Trent Dilfer and Joe Flacco in Baltimore, Brad Johnson in Tampa Bay, and Rex Grossman in Chicago,)
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I once believed in causes too, I had my pointless point of view, and life went on no matter who was wrong or right. - Billy Joel

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