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Should military service (or related service) be required?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Should military service be required for each able-bodied citizen for one or two years?

Yes, as long as alternatives like the Peace Corps and AmeriCorps are allowed.
69
24%
Yes, but only military service should be allowed.
30
10%
No, because one or two years is too long. Mandatory service should be limited to a number of months.
13
4%
No, because it should not be required at all.
163
56%
Other
17
6%
 
Total votes : 292

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Post-Keynesian Economics
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Should military service (or related service) be required?

Postby Post-Keynesian Economics » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:31 pm

While it often isn't even considered as a realistic idea, I've been reading up on the idea that developed countries such as the United States should require a certain number of years of military service or as an alternative, something like the Peace Corps or other full-time related service. This is considered pretty radical, but there is a case to be made for it.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/30/bring-back-military-draft

Our governments order it, and it just happens. We shrug, safe that it's not going to affect us one way or the other. If our own apathy troubles us, as it should, it is perhaps our own fault for letting slip one of the core tenets of the world's first democracy. For the ancient Athenians, a non-negotiable prerequisite for citizenship was the completion of compulsory military service and availability in the reserves. To hold public office and voting rights, you had to have skin in the game: quite literally, your own and probably your family's. In short, Athenian citizens could not afford not to care about their foreign policy.


http://www.sfexaminer.com/sanfrancisco/us-should-have-mandatory-national-service-for-all-citizens/Content?oid=2179665

More than 1 million young adults begin attending four-year colleges each year. As a condition of admission to a public college or to receive federal funds to attend a private college, students could be required to serve their country for up to two years, in civilian national service programs such as AmeriCorps or the Peace Corps or homeland security efforts such as guarding nuclear plants or in the military. Some would choose the military, especially if they were to receive more GI Bill-type college aid as a reward for more dangerous duty.

I know numerous professionals who financed their educations with federal loans, scholarships and fellowships. As a condition of receiving these funds, they could be required to perform two years of national service. Doctors could, for example, serve in veteran’s hospitals or agree to treat a specific number of veterans in their private offices at no cost. So could psychologists and social workers.

Like health care professionals, lawyers who receive federal funds could serve for two years in many capacities. Each day, the VA attempts to deal with thousands of troop benefit claims. Lawyers who are doing their two-year national service could help streamline an otherwise dysfunctional process.

Journalists can serve. We tend to be patient researchers, keen observers and writers of clear prose. Countless federal agencies could use our talents for two years.

Again, all able-bodied, mentally fit citizens could and should serve. We should earn the right to enjoy our great freedoms and amenities that others have died for and will continue to die for.


While I still haven't formed a full opinion on this, this actually seems like it could be a very practical idea, especially if programs like AmeriCorps and Peace Corps are allowed as well. We already don't have enough jobs for our population, and this would help us to have the manpower to complete enormous projects. It could also strengthen our diplomacy across the globe, because I suspect a lot of people would choose things like the Peace Corps rather than the military.

I know that when someone on NSG posts something "out there," it is often met with a lot of single word responses like "no." But I hope you all will warrant your arguments as well.
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Divair
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Postby Divair » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:33 pm

No. I ran away to avoid military service.

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Wind in the Willows
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Postby Wind in the Willows » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:33 pm

Yes, it teaches young adults discipline.

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Wind in the Willows
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Postby Wind in the Willows » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:34 pm

Divair wrote:No. I ran away to avoid military service.


Couldn't they arrest you for that?

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Threlizdun
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Postby Threlizdun » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:34 pm

Dehumanizing people and turning them into weapons is not beneficial for humanity.
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Divair
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Postby Divair » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:34 pm

Wind in the Willows wrote:
Divair wrote:No. I ran away to avoid military service.


Couldn't they arrest you for that?

I'm sure they could try, but they'd have to cross a continent to reach me.

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Death Metal
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Postby Death Metal » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:36 pm

Only in countries with potentially hostile borders, and only if there are noncombatant options available.

Otherwise? Absolutely not.
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Postby Post-Keynesian Economics » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:36 pm

Threlizdun wrote:Dehumanizing people and turning them into weapons is not beneficial for humanity.


But what if you don't have to be a weapon? What if you can do something like the Peace Corps as an alternative?
"Will capitalist economies operate at full employment in the absence of routine intervention? Certainly not. Are deviations from full employment a social problem? Obviously." - Janet Yellen

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Post-Keynesian Economics
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Postby Post-Keynesian Economics » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:36 pm

Death Metal wrote:Only in countries with potentially hostile borders, and only if there are noncombatant options available.

Otherwise? Absolutely not.


Why not?
"Will capitalist economies operate at full employment in the absence of routine intervention? Certainly not. Are deviations from full employment a social problem? Obviously." - Janet Yellen

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Wind in the Willows
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Postby Wind in the Willows » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:39 pm

Divair wrote:
Wind in the Willows wrote:
Couldn't they arrest you for that?

I'm sure they could try, but they'd have to cross a continent to reach me.


But they could ask the UK Police to hand you over.

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Divair
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Postby Divair » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:39 pm

Wind in the Willows wrote:
Divair wrote:I'm sure they could try, but they'd have to cross a continent to reach me.


But they could ask the UK Police to hand you over.

UK police don't give a fuck.

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Norstal
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Postby Norstal » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:40 pm

Wind in the Willows wrote:Yes, it teaches young adults discipline.

School doesn't?
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Norstal
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Postby Norstal » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:41 pm

Post-Keynesian Economics wrote:
Threlizdun wrote:Dehumanizing people and turning them into weapons is not beneficial for humanity.


But what if you don't have to be a weapon? What if you can do something like the Peace Corps as an alternative?

You know you need to be highly educated for Peace Corps right?
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Postby Post-Keynesian Economics » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:41 pm

Norstal wrote:
Wind in the Willows wrote:Yes, it teaches young adults discipline.

School doesn't?


No, it definitely doesn't. Not like the military or the Peace Corps.
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Wind in the Willows
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Postby Wind in the Willows » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:41 pm

Norstal wrote:
Wind in the Willows wrote:Yes, it teaches young adults discipline.

School doesn't?


Not really.

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Napkiraly
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Postby Napkiraly » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:41 pm

The military should remain all volunteer.

As for mandatory civilian work, such as working at a charity or some other thing, I used to say no but I'm now at the stage where I'm not entirely for nor against it. Opinion being formed I guess.

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Priory Academy USSR
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Postby Priory Academy USSR » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:41 pm

No. It's a waste of time and money that has no place in the 1st World any more. If we are going to put people into the military/public service, it should be for the chronically unemployed rather than getting in the way of the careers and lives of young people.
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Wind in the Willows
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Postby Wind in the Willows » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:42 pm

Divair wrote:
Wind in the Willows wrote:
But they could ask the UK Police to hand you over.

UK police don't give a fuck.


That's true. :lol:

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Postby Post-Keynesian Economics » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:42 pm

Norstal wrote:
Post-Keynesian Economics wrote:
But what if you don't have to be a weapon? What if you can do something like the Peace Corps as an alternative?

You know you need to be highly educated for Peace Corps right?


There's no reason that couldn't be changed, especially if the Peace Corps created a wing specifically for people just out of high school.
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Regnum Dominae
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Postby Regnum Dominae » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:45 pm

Fuck no.

Wind in the Willows wrote:
Divair wrote:No. I ran away to avoid military service.


Couldn't they arrest you for that?

Israeli police do not have jurisdiction over the UK.
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Death Metal
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Postby Death Metal » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:45 pm

Post-Keynesian Economics wrote:
Death Metal wrote:Only in countries with potentially hostile borders, and only if there are noncombatant options available.

Otherwise? Absolutely not.


Why not?


Because no successful and free state should ever need to draft servicepeople in peacetimes, unless and only unless they were under constant threat of invasion.

Forced military service into non-defensive or retaliatory conflicts also brings with it civil destability and conflict. See: US involvement in Vietnam (Plagued with mass protests, flights to Canada, and suicides) vs US involvement in WWII (Near-uniform support and had so many people enlisting that they had to turn people away).
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Avenio
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Postby Avenio » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:46 pm

Mandatory military or other service is just as bad as conscription, so no, we shouldn't put it into place.

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Wind in the Willows
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Postby Wind in the Willows » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:47 pm

Regnum Dominae wrote:Fuck no.

Wind in the Willows wrote:
Couldn't they arrest you for that?

Israeli police do not have jurisdiction over the UK.


Yes I know, but they could always ask the UK Police. But as Divair said, the Police in the UK don't give a fuck.

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Norstal
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Postby Norstal » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:47 pm

Post-Keynesian Economics wrote:
Norstal wrote:School doesn't?


No, it definitely doesn't. Not like the military or the Peace Corps.

But it can be. Schools in Asia teaches discipline. There's no need to have discipline instilled outside of schools.

Post-Keynesian Economics wrote:
Norstal wrote:You know you need to be highly educated for Peace Corps right?


There's no reason that couldn't be changed, especially if the Peace Corps created a wing specifically for people just out of high school.

...You...do realize what the Peace Corps does? They can't just take in random people like that. They help coordinate businesses, plan out infrastructures, being teachers, etc. If you do that you'll lower the quality the services the Peace Corps offers.
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Vetalia
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Postby Vetalia » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:48 pm

I don't really see the benefit.
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