Best Fighting Forces in Modern History (1700's-Present )

[Imperial City-States]

War has and always will be apart of humanity . It exist in our very nature . From Land to Woman to Riches we have killed one another . Even down to our very moral fiber we have killed our fellow man over ideologies and our interpretations of how our life's should be lived .

In this Thread we will be Discussing the Best fighting Force in the History of mankind in the Modern Era . To which i am defining being from the 1700's to the Present day . This is not a thread where you spout comments supporting a single fighting force with no way of backing it up . Please make educated arguments and have a basis for your suggestion .




-- My Choice for the Best fighting Force would be the German Wehrmacht before and During the Second World war .

Not only were they the Best Trained , Equip and Discipline Fighting force the world had ever seen but they held off Three Super powers and Countless other Smaller nations for Four years and made Allied forces pay for Every inch of Soil they took dearly .

It has been suggested and Proven that the German Soldier in the Wehrmacht was 30-50% more combat effective then Their British and American Counter-parts . Further more a Single German division was able to Hold of Three Russian Divisions of Equal Strength and armament . This increased when German troops were defending to One German Division being able to hold off Seven Russian Divisions which a defensive war is what the German Armed forces fought for the Vast Majority of the Second World war .


Against American And British troops , German Forces inflicted Casualties 50% Higher then the losses they suffered . Against Russians that Ratio changed from 2:1 to 4:1 Leaving a margin that was More then 50% proving the effectivness of the German Military at this time .



Furthermore the Wehrmacht had Access to equipment late in the war that was years ahead of their Competitors . Including but not limited to -- The Panzerfaust ( disposable AT Rocket ) STG-44 ( Sturmgwether ) Jet Fighter ( ME262 ) and Tanks that were superior to allied counterparts in most aspects ( Panther's , Tigers ) They also had Access the the Single most effective anti-tank weapon in the entire war , the 8.8cm Flak 41 that could destroy any allied tank reliably at 16,250 Yards with use of long range spotting equipment or about 15 Kilometers .


I could go on but i would be writing a tirade all day and would bore most of you . However though Superior Equipment , Training and Discipline is why i believe the German Wehrmacht was the Best Fighting force the modern world has ever seen


reference for earlier statistics

http://ww2-weapons.com/Orders-of-battle/Germany/Wehrmacht/Fighting-power.htm

[The Nuclear Fist]

The Caroleans come to mind, the various Afghan dynasties, Russians, etc.

[Imperial City-States]

Care to elaborate a particular time ?

I am well aware of the Caroleans but any particular Afghans or Russian ones ?

[Imperial City-States]

Bump for the win ?

[Hyperion]

The American Army. Call me a 'Murican hillbilly, but they've only lost 2 or 3 wars (Vietnam, Invasion of Canada, and whatever other I'm missing), as well as having a sizeable military budget, sizeable military, and a nuclear arsenal capable of destroying this planet's livability and destroy any planet's chances of it for afew centuries.

[Imperial City-States]

The American Army. Call me a 'Murican hillbilly, but they've only lost 2 or 3 wars (Vietnam, Invasion of Canada, and whatever other I'm missing), as well as having a sizeable military budget, sizeable military, and a nuclear arsenal capable of destroying this planet's livability and destroy any planet's chances of it for afew centuries.

All very valid points .. IMHO we didn't lose Vietnam , look at them and look at us lol

[Aeken]

Never mind.

[Hyperion]

The American Army. Call me a 'Murican hillbilly, but they've only lost 2 or 3 wars (Vietnam, Invasion of Canada, and whatever other I'm missing), as well as having a sizeable military budget, sizeable military, and a nuclear arsenal capable of destroying this planet's livability and destroy any planet's chances of it for afew centuries.

All very valid points .. IMHO we didn't lose Vietnam , look at them and look at us lol

We invested tons in it, were losing, and pulled out to watch South Vietnam collapse. But I guess you could say,"We may of lost this battle, but the war is ours."

[Hyperion]

Mongols.

Modern History, most of the Mongol might was Pre-1700's if not all. Although they were the best ones, and always the exception to military issues.

[Imperial City-States]

All very valid points .. IMHO we didn't lose Vietnam , look at them and look at us lol

We invested tons in it, were losing, and pulled out to watch South Vietnam collapse. But I guess you could say,"We may of lost this battle, but the war is ours."

Well the way i look at it is the American Politics lost the War not the American Military . The NVA and VC never won a single major engagement with American forces

[Drekka]

The American Army. Call me a 'Murican hillbilly, but they've only lost 2 or 3 wars (Vietnam, Invasion of Canada, and whatever other I'm missing), as well as having a sizeable military budget, sizeable military, and a nuclear arsenal capable of destroying this planet's livability and destroy any planet's chances of it for afew centuries.

All very valid points .. IMHO we didn't lose Vietnam , look at them and look at us lol

Agreed. There is no Soviet emblem on our flag, meanwhile, the
Ho Chi Minth trail is littered with McDonalds wrappers and
Other byproducts of capitalism.

Vietnam 'twas a mere battle in the Cold War

[Drekka]

We invested tons in it, were losing, and pulled out to watch South Vietnam collapse. But I guess you could say,"We may of lost this battle, but the war is ours."

Well the way i look at it is the American Politics lost the War not the American Military . The NVA and VC never won a single major engagement with American forces

^this,

Also, didn't the U.S involvement in the war
End in a short lived ceasefire + honorable withdrawal of forces?

[Geilinor]

Well the way i look at it is the American Politics lost the War not the American Military . The NVA and VC never won a single major engagement with American forces

^this,

Also, didn't the U.S involvement in the war
End in a short lived ceasefire + honorable withdrawal of forces?

The stated goal was to contain communism, which didn't happen. South Vietnam was still taken over at the end.

[Imperial City-States]

Well the way i look at it is the American Politics lost the War not the American Military . The NVA and VC never won a single major engagement with American forces

^this,

Also, didn't the U.S involvement in the war
End in a short lived ceasefire + honorable withdrawal of forces?

That is correct

[The 22nd Parallel]

Go ahead and flame me for saying this, but I'd have to say the Al Qaeda is up there. Despicable as their tactics may be, they've basically turned warfare on its head. Hiding in plain sight among the civilian populace, using suicide bombs, setting up IEDs, etc. is pretty inventive.

I mean, they're not conquering any nations or anything, but if we're specifically talking about combat (which I assume we are, given the title "Fighting Forces"), Al Qaeda knows to to fight and survive in a modern war.

That being said, I would also elect the American military as one of the most powerful given its massive budget, all-volunteer force, and complete ignorance of international law along with the sprawling surveillance capabilities of the CIA, FBI, and NSA.

[Imperial City-States]

Go ahead and flame me for saying this, but I'd have to say the Al Qaeda is up there. Despicable as their tactics may be, they've basically turned warfare on its head. Hiding in plain sight among the civilian populace, using suicide bombs, setting up IEDs, etc. is pretty inventive.

I mean, they're not conquering any nations or anything, but if we're specifically talking about combat (which I assume we are, given the title "Fighting Forces"), Al Qaeda knows to to fight and survive in a modern war.

That being said, I would also elect the American military as one of the most powerful given its massive budget, all-volunteer force, and complete ignorance of international law along with the sprawling surveillance capabilities of the CIA, FBI, and NSA.

Well i would avoid throwing the FBI and NSA in there as those both operate domestically as much as i hate the NSA . The CIA is the only one that operates ( and can't operate inside ) the United States .

And International law is kinda a iffy topic , There are no Rules in war and anyone who trys to apply the is an idiot

[United Independent Carolina]

In my opinion, one of the best fighting forces is the Imperial Russian Army. They defeated Napoleon for god sakes.

[Imperial City-States]

In my opinion, one of the best fighting forces is the Imperial Russian Army. They defeated Napoleon for god sakes.

Would you care to elaborate ?

Scorched Earth tactics , Cossack Raids and the Russian Winter to name three of the things that saved Russia

[The Noble Trek]

-- My Choice for the Best fighting Force would be the German Wehrmacht before and During the Second World war .

Not only were they the Best Trained , Equip and Discipline Fighting force the world had ever seen but they held off Three Super powers and Countless other Smaller nations for Four years and made Allied forces pay for Every inch of Soil they took dearly .

It has been suggested and Proven that the German Soldier in the Wehrmacht was 30-50% more combat effective then Their British and American Counter-parts . Further more a Single German division was able to Hold of Three Russian Divisions of Equal Strength and armament . This increased when German troops were defending to One German Division being able to hold off Seven Russian Divisions which a defensive war is what the German Armed forces fought for the Vast Majority of the Second World war .


Against American And British troops , German Forces inflicted Casualties 50% Higher then the losses they suffered . Against Russians that Ratio changed from 2:1 to 4:1 Leaving a margin that was More then 50% proving the effectivness of the German Military at this time .



Furthermore the Wehrmacht had Access to equipment late in the war that was years ahead of their Competitors . Including but not limited to -- The Panzerfaust ( disposable AT Rocket ) STG-44 ( Sturmgwether ) Jet Fighter ( ME262 ) and Tanks that were superior to allied counterparts in most aspects ( Panther's , Tigers ) They also had Access the the Single most effective anti-tank weapon in the entire war , the 8.8cm Flak 41 that could destroy any allied tank reliably at 16,250 Yards with use of long range spotting equipment or about 15 Kilometers .

I agree that the Germans inflicted much higher casualties than the Allies did fighting them, but I don't think it's true that their equipment/technology was superior, at least in comparison to American equipment and technology. At the beginning of the war, sure, but their technoligical advancements kind of stagnated during the war itself, because towards the end their equipment was already outdated.

Yes, German scientists had all kinds of plans. Plans for a tank the size of a three story house, plans for an atomic bomb, plans for a space plan. The Japanese also had "plans" for a death ray- that doesn't mean you can count a death ray as part of their arsenal. In terms of stuff that actually got built and used, the Allies definitely had the edge late in the war. I mean, the Nazis never even fully integrated trucks into their army- at the end of the war, most of the Nazi army was still horse-drawn.

[Imperial City-States]

-- My Choice for the Best fighting Force would be the German Wehrmacht before and During the Second World war .

Not only were they the Best Trained , Equip and Discipline Fighting force the world had ever seen but they held off Three Super powers and Countless other Smaller nations for Four years and made Allied forces pay for Every inch of Soil they took dearly .

It has been suggested and Proven that the German Soldier in the Wehrmacht was 30-50% more combat effective then Their British and American Counter-parts . Further more a Single German division was able to Hold of Three Russian Divisions of Equal Strength and armament . This increased when German troops were defending to One German Division being able to hold off Seven Russian Divisions which a defensive war is what the German Armed forces fought for the Vast Majority of the Second World war .


Against American And British troops , German Forces inflicted Casualties 50% Higher then the losses they suffered . Against Russians that Ratio changed from 2:1 to 4:1 Leaving a margin that was More then 50% proving the effectivness of the German Military at this time .



Furthermore the Wehrmacht had Access to equipment late in the war that was years ahead of their Competitors . Including but not limited to -- The Panzerfaust ( disposable AT Rocket ) STG-44 ( Sturmgwether ) Jet Fighter ( ME262 ) and Tanks that were superior to allied counterparts in most aspects ( Panther's , Tigers ) They also had Access the the Single most effective anti-tank weapon in the entire war , the 8.8cm Flak 41 that could destroy any allied tank reliably at 16,250 Yards with use of long range spotting equipment or about 15 Kilometers .

I agree that the Germans inflicted much higher casualties than the Allies did fighting them, but I don't think it's true that their equipment/technology was superior, at least in comparison to American equipment and technology. At the beginning of the war, sure, but their technoligical advancements kind of stagnated during the war itself, because towards the end their equipment was already outdated.

Yes, German scientists had all kinds of plans. Plans for a tank the size of a three story house, plans for an atomic bomb, plans for a space plan. The Japanese also had "plans" for a death ray- that doesn't mean you can count a death ray as part of their arsenal. In terms of stuff that actually got built and used, the Allies definitely had the edge late in the war. I mean, the Nazis never even fully integrated trucks into their army- at the end of the war, most of the Nazi army was still horse-drawn.

Even with that Argument you are proving my point even more that an Army that was apparently outdated ( although i disagree partially ) the still inflicted Heavy Casualties upon the allies , Care to elaborate a little on what technology your refering to?


I don't know if i made it clear but i wasn't refering to all of the experimental tech that was never released , only items that were brought to the battlefield

[Ozzy]

-- My Choice for the Best fighting Force would be the German Wehrmacht before and During the Second World war .

Not only were they the Best Trained , Equip and Discipline Fighting force the world had ever seen but they held off Three Super powers and Countless other Smaller nations for Four years and made Allied forces pay for Every inch of Soil they took dearly .

Italy and the entire Balkans pretty much pull a majority of the weight in Operation Barbarossa.

Not to mention America defeated Germany and Japan in two-fronts and wore down their war machines with extreme efficiency.

[Imperial City-States]

-- My Choice for the Best fighting Force would be the German Wehrmacht before and During the Second World war .

Not only were they the Best Trained , Equip and Discipline Fighting force the world had ever seen but they held off Three Super powers and Countless other Smaller nations for Four years and made Allied forces pay for Every inch of Soil they took dearly .

Italy and the entire Balkans pretty much pull a majority of the weight in Operation Barbarossa.

Not to mention America defeated Germany and Japan in two-fronts and wore down their war machines with extreme efficiency.

Italy did not pull the majority of the Barbarossa operation as only 250,000 (About ) Italian and Balktic troops every participated .

As for America - we joined in After Germany had been at war for three years and America was an Industrial super power . "Wear down machines Efficiency " please elaborate on that

[Neoconstantius]

United States military. Soviet military. Cossacks. Israel Defense Forces.

Similar to the IDF, the Nagarno-Karabakh Defense Army was an incredibly robust fighting force, killing 50% to 75% of the Azerbaijani troops engaged in the Nagorno-Karabakh War while extensively outnumbered and faced with superior weaponry. If not the best, they're up there, certainly.

[Imperial City-States]

United States military. Soviet military. Cossacks. Israel Defense Forces.

Similar to the IDF, the Nagarno-Karabakh Defense Army was an incredibly robust fighting force, killing 50% to 75% of the Azerbaijani troops engaged in the Nagorno-Karabakh War while extensively outnumbered and faced with superior weaponry. If not the best, they're up there, certainly.

And What Year were the NKDA From ?

[Neoconstantius]

United States military. Soviet military. Cossacks. Israel Defense Forces.

Similar to the IDF, the Nagarno-Karabakh Defense Army was an incredibly robust fighting force, killing 50% to 75% of the Azerbaijani troops engaged in the Nagorno-Karabakh War while extensively outnumbered and faced with superior weaponry. If not the best, they're up there, certainly.

And What Year were the NKDA From ?

The 1990s. This is 1700s to present, right?