Religion, Good or Bad?

[Iron Confederation]

Jesus came “not to send peace, but a sword.” (Matthew 10:34).

Way to completely disregard Jesus's other peaceful actions and statements, such as going willingly to his own execution and ordering his own disciples not to defend him.

I mean honestly. You can keep throwing out examples of how the Bible condones violence, but for each example you could easily be met with one that promotes peace, welfare of the poor, etc.

"Religion" can be both bad or good. Or both at the same time. I don't see why everyone here has to be so polarizing about it all.

[4years]

None of the countries you just listed killed anyone in the name of atheism.

1. Part of Communism is atheism, 2. which is exactly why they were targeted. 3. They wouldn't have been targeted if the state wasn't atheist in itself.

1. Thomas Münzer would like a word. Besides, none of the countries on question were communist.

2. Religious people weren't target because of atheist philosophy, they were targeted to ensure political domination by the bureaucracy.

3. Incorrect. Stalin, as a matter of fact, wasn't an atheist.

[4years]

You forget, Jesus explicitly accepted all the Old Testament laws and applied them to his followers. If you follow the teachings of Jesus, you must follow the old law. It is central to Jesus' teaching according to the bible.

Source?

This will do for a start:
“For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV) Clearly the law is to be follow by until the end times, Jesus said so. It is Jesus' will for the law to remain forever, "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB)

[Personal Freedom]

In my opinion, religion on the whole is good (as it provides hope and comfort for many people), there are, however, sects and people in every religion who use their religious beliefs to cause harm to a large number of people.

A truth in a web a gray confusion.

[The Fraticelli Papacy]

1. Part of Communism is atheism, 2. which is exactly why they were targeted. 3. They wouldn't have been targeted if the state wasn't atheist in itself.

1. Thomas Münzer would like a word. Besides, none of the countries on question were communist.

2. Religious people weren't target because of atheist philosophy, they were targeted to ensure political domination by the bureaucracy.

3. Incorrect. Stalin, as a matter of fact, wasn't an atheist.

1. In that case, none of the rulers you said killed in the name of Christ were Christian.

2. In other words, because the bureaucracy was atheist, they wanted to push it onto the people.

3. Stalin wasn't the only one in charge in the USSR, and he wasn't the only statesman implied in that person's post.

[Seshephe]

Have you even read the bible?

The whole thing is basically kill this or that group. Takes these for example: "If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through." (Zechariah 13:3 NAB), "You should not let a sorceress live." (Exodus 22:17 NAB), and "If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him." (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB). Not exactly "burn the heathen", but close enough. And remember you have kill according to the bible, "Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood." (Jeremiah 48:10 NAB)

All of those are from the old testament, first of all, which is mostly irrelevant to Christians, because they are not Jewish ethnicity-wise for the most part. You forget that those rules apply to the "chosen people of God", which were the Jews.

Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. 5:17

Families will be torn apart because of Jesus (this is one of the few "prophecies" in the Bible that has actually come true). "Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death." 10:21

Jesus condemns entire cities to dreadful deaths and to the eternal torment of hell because they didn't care for his preaching. 11:20-24

Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as required by Old Testament law. (See Ex 21:15, Lev 20:9, Dt 21:18-21) 7:9-10

[The Fraticelli Papacy]

Source?

This will do for a start:
“For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV) Clearly the law is to be follow by until the end times, Jesus said so. It is Jesus' will for the law to remain forever, "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB)

You interpret it as that, anyway. One might just as easily say he wants you to follow the ten commandments and the law of the country they were in.

[Occupied Deutschland]

All of those are from the old testament, first of all, which is mostly irrelevant to Christians, because they are not Jewish ethnicity-wise for the most part. You forget that those rules apply to the "chosen people of God", which were the Jews.

Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. 5:17

Families will be torn apart because of Jesus (this is one of the few "prophecies" in the Bible that has actually come true). "Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death." 10:21

Jesus condemns entire cities to dreadful deaths and to the eternal torment of hell because they didn't care for his preaching. 11:20-24

Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as required by Old Testament law. (See Ex 21:15, Lev 20:9, Dt 21:18-21) 7:9-10

Where are these from?

[Personal Freedom]

Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as required by Old Testament law. (See Ex 21:15, Lev 20:9, Dt 21:18-21) 7:9-10

What a pleasant sermon.

I don't consider the Gospels "holy". They interpretations of Jesus. Everyone has their own.

[Sailsia]

"Religion" itself being a massive umbrella term to denote a concept rather than a specific set of beliefs, isn't good (how would one even define "good") or bad (how would one even define "bad"). "Religion" has been used to justify acts of violence, repression, and corruption. "Religion" has given countless humans something to live for; hope, confidence, purpose. I'm an atheist, and believe that religion should be intensely personal. I found that no religion is more "real" than any other, and that because of that they were all illogical. I believe that it's immoral for parents to "force" their children to hold their own religious beliefs. I also believe that possibly millions of people would have given up on life if it wasn't for their religious beliefs and that religion, like any other concept, can be used to justify "good" or "bad".

[Seshephe]

It sounds like something I read about the Freemasons, where they all worship the same God, but some people just know him by different names.
.... Found it

Now imagine me standing in lodge with my head bowed in prayer between Brother Mohammed Bokhary and Brother Arjun Melwani. To neither of them is the Great Architect of the Universe perceived as the Holy Trinity. To Brother Bokhary He has been revealed as Allah; to Brother Melwani He is probably perceived as Vishnu. Since I believe that there is only one God, I am confronted with three possibilities:

They are praying to the devil whilst I am praying to God;
They are praying to nothing, as their Gods do not exist;
They are praying to the same God as I, yet their understanding of His nature is partly incomplete (as indeed is mine — 1 Cor 13:12)

It is without hesitation that I accept the third possibility..

i did not realize the Universalist belief was shared in Free Masonry.

Ah yes, the polytheism of monotheists. No one is wrong, really we are all right just in different ways.
...
..
.

[4years]

1. Thomas Münzer would like a word. Besides, none of the countries on question were communist.

2. Religious people weren't target because of atheist philosophy, they were targeted to ensure political domination by the bureaucracy.

3. Incorrect. Stalin, as a matter of fact, wasn't an atheist.

1. In that case, none of the rulers you said killed in the name of Christ were Christian.

2. In other words, because the bureaucracy was atheist, they wanted to push it onto the people.

3. Stalin wasn't the only one in charge in the USSR, and he wasn't the only statesman implied in that person's post.

1. Talk about non sequiturs.

2. The bureaucracy at times supported the church (see the USSR's policy toward the Orthodox Church during WW2) the only reason the religion was attacked was because organized church threaten the bureaucracies power. Where the bureaucracy controlled the churches religion was permitted.

3. Yet Stalin was responsible for actions of violence against organized religion. His personal Orthodox Christian beliefs counterposed with his violence against religion illustrate that persecutions were about political domination not atheistic philosophy.

[Seshephe]

Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. 5:17

Families will be torn apart because of Jesus (this is one of the few "prophecies" in the Bible that has actually come true). "Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death." 10:21

Jesus condemns entire cities to dreadful deaths and to the eternal torment of hell because they didn't care for his preaching. 11:20-24

Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as required by Old Testament law. (See Ex 21:15, Lev 20:9, Dt 21:18-21) 7:9-10

Where are these from?

Skeptic's annotated bible.

[Sailsia]

None of the countries you just listed killed anyone in the name of atheism.

Part of Communism is atheism, which is exactly why they were targeted. They wouldn't have been targeted if the state wasn't atheist in itself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_communism

And just so I get it straight, you're claiming that EVERYONE who died under the Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot regimes were killed due to their religious beliefs?

[Iron Confederation]

Skeptic's annotated bible.

You should probably read the source material and not just a biased annotation.

[Occupied Deutschland]

Where are these from?

Skeptic's annotated bible.

That's actually helpful as well, but I was curious what books were referenced at the end of the lines, as the chapter and verse alone is difficult to use.

[The Fraticelli Papacy]

Part of Communism is atheism, which is exactly why they were targeted. They wouldn't have been targeted if the state wasn't atheist in itself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_communism

And just so I get it straight, you're claiming that EVERYONE who died under the Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot regimes were killed due to their religious beliefs?

No, I'm saying that religious people that were targeted based on their religion were done mostly in the name of spreading irreligion.

[Seshephe]

Skeptic's annotated bible.

You should probably read the source material and not just a biased annotation.

You can read the verses yourself if you think that it's biased. I've read the bible, thank you very much, I just use this to find stuff fast.

[YellowApple]

i did not realize the Universalist belief was shared in Free Masonry.

Ah yes, the polytheism of monotheists. No one is wrong, really we are all right just in different ways.
...
..
.

I'll take that over "I'm right and you're a filthy godless heathen because $randomly_selected_book says so" any day

[Sailsia]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_communism

And just so I get it straight, you're claiming that EVERYONE who died under the Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot regimes were killed due to their religious beliefs?

No, I'm saying that religious people that were targeted based on their religion were done mostly in the name of spreading irreligion.

Okay, would you mind providing figures as to how many of these people were killed?

[Personal Freedom]

You should probably read the source material and not just a biased annotation.

You can read the verses yourself if you think that it's biased. I've read the bible, thank you very much, I just use this to find stuff fast.

Actually one is about beating your parents, one is about incest...

[Iron Confederation]

You should probably read the source material and not just a biased annotation.

You can read the verses yourself if you think that it's biased. I've read the bible, thank you very much, I just use this to find stuff fast.

Alright, I'm curious. What do the Skeptic's Annotations say about "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you", and Jesus ordering Peter to put away his sword?

[Seshephe]

Where are these from?

Skeptic's annotated bible.

1, 2 and 3 Matthew
4 Mark

[Seshephe]

You can read the verses yourself if you think that it's biased. I've read the bible, thank you very much, I just use this to find stuff fast.

Alright, I'm curious. What do the Skeptic's Annotations say about "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you", and Jesus ordering Peter to put away his sword?

I don't know, why don't you
Skeptic's annotated bible

[Seshephe]

Ah yes, the polytheism of monotheists. No one is wrong, really we are all right just in different ways.
...
..
.

I'll take that over "I'm right and you're a filthy godless heathen because $randomly_selected_book says so" any day

I will to, but it's kind of silly.