Cuban Embargo

[Socialist Tera]

Dictating other nations sovereignty is not the best way to deal in international politics.

It often is when dealing with rogue states like apartheid South Africa and North Korea.

I wouldn't classify Cuba in the same category as those two.

[Luveria]

It often is when dealing with rogue states like apartheid South Africa and North Korea.

I wouldn't classify Cuba in the same category as those two.

Dictating other nations sovereignty is not the best way to deal in international politics.

I responded to exactly what your post claimed. It is best not to make such sweeping blanket generalizations.

[Socialist Tera]

I wouldn't classify Cuba in the same category as those two.

Dictating other nations sovereignty is not the best way to deal in international politics.

I responded to exactly what your post claimed. It is best not to make such sweeping blanket generalizations.

Expecting the change of laws in other country to lift laws that should of been lifted years ago is stupid, the US deals regularly with dictators throughout the world. e.g. China and Vietnam. It is despicable that the USA plays big brother and neocolonialist throughout the world.

[4years]

He actually believes that Marixst-Leninism is revisionism. He basically called Lenin and every other communist revolutionary leader of the 20th leader, a revisionist.

You are going to have to remind me where I said that especially since, now that I think about it, you already admitted to revisionism:

I am an Orthodox Marxist-Leninist not a pure marxist.

Dictating other nations sovereignty is not the best way to deal in international politics.

Depends more on who is dictating to whom and what policies are being imposed. I would like to see the US drop the embargo in exchange for Cuba allowing more political freedoms, but that isn't going to happened anytime soon.

[Gairvuu]

First of all, communists aren't "criminal organizations" to pretty much anyone besides you.

If an organization that takes control of a country from its legitimate rulers, illegally nationalizes millions of dollars worth of property and then proceeds to tyrannize and murder its opponents for the next sixty years isn't a criminal organization, I don't know what is.

How is Cuba "spitting in America's face" at this point in time?

By being a socialist dictatorship instead of being an American ally like it was before the coup?

And why would an absolute embargo make the Cubans more angry at their rulers instead of more angry at the USA, who imposed the embargo?

Revolutions happen when people are hungry, thirsty and discontent. By relaxing the embargo, we're only contributing to the suffering of the Cuban people by making sure that the current regime will stay in power.

im sorry, but i just read this, and thought that you are the single stupidest person ever, For a start nationalizing is not illegal, the former government has the same amount to rule as this one does,that is because they have power therefore they rule. Not because of divine right or anything else. You need to stop being so pigheaded and accept that other people have valid idealoligies and that oh so "glorious america" is not the ruler of the earth.

[Arglorand]

End the shit.

These words sound so epic that I think they should be the slogan that surmises all my political views in general.

"End the shit."

[Socialist Tera]

He actually believes that Marixst-Leninism is revisionism. He basically called Lenin and every other communist revolutionary leader of the 20th leader, a revisionist.

You are going to have to remind me where I said that especially since, now that I think about it, you already admitted to revisionism:

I am an Orthodox Marxist-Leninist not a pure marxist.

Dictating other nations sovereignty is not the best way to deal in international politics.

Depends more on who is dictating to whom and what policies are being imposed. I would like to see the US drop the embargo in exchange for Cuba allowing more political freedoms, but that isn't going to happened anytime soon.

My mistake, bad wording, sorry tired... Orthodox Marixst-Leninism has the same principles of Marxism but has it's own principles as well.

[4years]

You are going to have to remind me where I said that especially since, now that I think about it, you already admitted to revisionism:



Depends more on who is dictating to whom and what policies are being imposed. I would like to see the US drop the embargo in exchange for Cuba allowing more political freedoms, but that isn't going to happened anytime soon.

My mistake, bad wording, sorry tired... Orthodox Marixst-Leninism has the same principles of Marxism but has it's own principles as well.

Principles your support for dictatorship violates....

[Regnum Dominae]

The topic is up there, you know.

Yes, we do seem to have strayed off topic....

Are we all agreed, or mostly agreed that the embargo is a bad thing and should be done away with?

Yeah, I think we should end the embargo, end the US policy of confrontationism toward Cuba, and begin a new policy of using diplomacy, aid, and soft power to encourage Cuba to move toward liberal democracy.

[Aeken]

End the shit.

These words sound so epic that I think they should be the slogan that surmises all my political views in general.

"End the shit."

Fuck yeah.

[EUstan]

Irrelevant.

No,it is not irrelevant. Supposedly, many of these companies were involved in corruption via paying off government officials. I do know that the US oil company on that island was told to refine Soviet oil. They were willing to comply but the US government told them not too. So you could say Cuba was justified in nationalizing the oil company. Without oil the economy and security of Cuba would have been damaged.

If the cuban oil company have had a foreign owner, it doesnt meant that the company is no more cuban or that it would disapear. It had to pay taxes to the cuban government just like the modern do it (with the exception that the company is today subsised by the government).

[EUstan]

:rofl:

They still have this?

No wonder that the Cuban people are so poor, old-fashioned and detached from the rest of the world.

To be fair. All thoose Spanish speaking countries are like "hurr burr teh ebul rich people r exploiting us. Che is a hero. Ebul imperializt Murrica".

Because of such mindset they will always be poor.

[EUstan]

Luveria, I am going to have to stand with you on this one: 'Socialist' Tera forgets that democracy is a fundamental tenant of Marxism and communism and ignores that socialism without democracy is patently ridiculous .

No, it is not. But honestly it is not worth prooving you since you are to into your mindset which prevents you to realize the different perspectives.

[Nevanmaa]

It often is when dealing with rogue states like apartheid South Africa and North Korea.

South Africa wasn't a rogue state.

It was a peaceful and stable conservative state that was destroyed by aggressive cultural imperialism.

[Souseiseki]

It often is when dealing with rogue states like apartheid South Africa and North Korea.

South Africa wasn't a rogue state.

It was a peaceful and stable conservative state that was destroyed by aggressive cultural imperialism.

poor apartheid, a victim of aggressive cultural imperalism. rip.

[4years]

Luveria, I am going to have to stand with you on this one: 'Socialist' Tera forgets that democracy is a fundamental tenant of Marxism and communism and ignores that socialism without democracy is patently ridiculous .

1. No, it is not. 2. But honestly it is not worth prooving you since you are to into your mindset which prevents you to realize the different perspectives.

1. Never mind Marx's Critique of Hegel’s Philosophy of Right, which I even quoted in that post.
2. I'll take that as you conceding the point and ignore the ad homien fallacy.

[Estado Paulista]

It often is when dealing with rogue states like apartheid South Africa and North Korea.

South Africa wasn't a rogue state.

It was a peaceful and stable conservative state that was destroyed by aggressive cultural imperialism.

Yeah, it's not like they meddled within the affairs of countries like Angola, Mozambique, Zimbabwe.

[4years]

South Africa wasn't a rogue state.

It was a peaceful and stable conservative state that was destroyed by aggressive cultural imperialism.

Yeah, it's not like they meddled within the affairs of countries like Angola, Mozambique, Zimbabwe.

Or like they engaged in racial apartheid at home and suppressed free speech.

[EUstan]

You mean the same civil war with Lenin having been supported by capitalist Germany?

I can play this game too.

The Germans didn't support Lenin in the civil war....

Yes, they did. The german secret servise was providing him a free pass from Switzerland to Russia in autumn 1917. There was also suspicions that he worked for them (which the world press also reported the same back then). He was also a prooven germanophile.

[4years]

The Germans didn't support Lenin in the civil war....

Yes, they did. 1. The german secret servise was providing him a free pass from Switzerland to Russia in autumn 1917. 2. There was also suspicions that he worked for them (which the world press also reported the same back then). 3. He was also a proven germanophile.

1. That was before the Russian civil war, which began in 1918.
2. Which were thoroughly debunked a the time.
3. Not really, also fixed.

[Alcase]

The embargo is stupid

[EUstan]

Yes, they did. 1. The german secret servise was providing him a free pass from Switzerland to Russia in autumn 1917. 2. There was also suspicions that he worked for them (which the world press also reported the same back then). 3. He was also a proven germanophile.

1. That was before the Russian civil war, which began in 1918.
2. Which were thoroughly debunked a the time.
3. Not really, also fixed.

1. So, you admit that Lenin worked for Imperial Germany?
2.Really, why did he signed the capitulation of Russia in 1918.?
3. He once said to a Swedish diplomat if a revolution comes to Germany that he would move his headquarters to Berlin.

[Regnum Dominae]

It often is when dealing with rogue states like apartheid South Africa and North Korea.

South Africa wasn't a rogue state.

It was a peaceful and stable conservative state that was destroyed by aggressive cultural imperialism.

Apartheid...

[YellowApple]

Yes, they did. 1. The german secret servise was providing him a free pass from Switzerland to Russia in autumn 1917. 2. There was also suspicions that he worked for them (which the world press also reported the same back then). 3. He was also a proven germanophile.

1. That was before the Russian civil war, which began in 1918.
2. Which were thoroughly debunked a the time.
3. Not really, also fixed.

In all fairness, though, WWI Germany would have had motivation for endorsing the civil war, given that - if it happened earlier - it would have given Germany a bit of a strategic advantage in the Eastern front with Russian forces relocating to internal positions to try and restore order. That would weaken the Russian line and permit German forces to have an easier time penetrating further east.

I don't really have a source for that, though; just speculation on my part.

[4years]

1. That was before the Russian civil war, which began in 1918.
2. Which were thoroughly debunked a the time.
3. Not really, also fixed.

1. So, you admit that Lenin worked for Imperial Germany?
2.Really, why did he signed the capitulation of Russia in 1918.?
3. He once said to a Swedish diplomat if a revolution comes to Germany that he would move his headquarters to Berlin.

1. No, Lenin passed through Germany on sealed train. Both parties sought use each other, as Lenin needed a way to return to Russia and Germany wanted to disrupt the Russian war effort.

2. Because Russia was losing the war badly and was in no shape to continue fighting, because the promise of peace was one of the things that got him into power and there was widespread support for peace in Russis, and because his call for "peace without annexations or indemnities" wasn't going to be accepted by Berlin.

3. That's just basic internationalism and common sense: Germany had a higher degree of industrial development than Russia, a more developed proletriat, and was much less of peasant country.