Cuban Embargo

[4years]

1. The proletariat is ready for democracy.

2. *cough*Paris Commune*cough* Besides, socialism in the USSR ended with the NEP which Lenin acknowledged was capitalistic in nature.

1. Stop being a utopianist. 2. I guess you want a classless state after the first week of the revolution.

1. Stop being dictatorial revisionist who is apparently unfamiliar with communist and socialist literature.

2. When did I say that? Remind me.

[Luveria]

You mean the same civil war with Lenin having been supported by capitalist Germany?

I can play this game too.

The Germans didn't support Lenin in the civil war....

"In the middle of April [1917] the Germans took a sombre decision. Ludendorff refers to it with bated breath. Full allowance must be made for the desperate stakes to which the German war leaders were already committed. They were in the mood which had opened unlimited submarine warfare with the certainty of bringing the United States into the war against them. Upon the Western front they had from the beginning used the most terrible means of offense at their disposal. They had employed poison gas on the largest scale and had invented the ‘Flammenwerfer.’ Nevertheless it was with a sense of awe that they turned upon Russia the most grisly of all weapons. They transported Lenin in a sealed truck like a plague bacillus from Switzerland into Russia.”

Winston S. Churchill
The World Crisis, Volume five.

So you are going to ignore all the atrocities carried out by the red army? And dont even get me started on Lenin s atrocities.

The whites did worse.

Stop using fallacies.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque

[The Scientific States]

So you are going to ignore all the atrocities carried out by the red army? And dont even get me started on Lenin s atrocities.

The whites did worse.

It doesn't mean the "Reds" didn't do bad.

Both sides were awful, and both sides had little regard for human life.

[Socialist Tera]

1. Stop being a utopianist. 2. I guess you want a classless state after the first week of the revolution.

1. Stop being dictatorial revisionist who is apparently unfamiliar with communist and socialist literature.

2. When did I say that? Remind me.

You think Leninism is revisionism? AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

[Luveria]

Sure they are.

They are apparently never ready because not one authoritarian socialist state has willingly allowed democracy.



No, I want your authoritarian influence over them to be gone. lets start by letting the workers vote for who they want vote for, and it's not going to be you they want to vote for as you've been insisting the workers are too stupid to be given democracy.



That is a lie. The Paris Commune existed well before the USSR. Don't make up things.

And no, making a socialist state is not a commitment to communism.

You might find this an interesting read about democracy: http://clogic.eserver.org/2005/furr.html

No.

[4years]

The Germans didn't support Lenin in the civil war....

"In the middle of April [1917] the Germans took a sombre decision. Ludendorff refers to it with bated breath. Full allowance must be made for the desperate stakes to which the German war leaders were already committed. They were in the mood which had opened unlimited submarine warfare with the certainty of bringing the United States into the war against them. Upon the Western front they had from the beginning used the most terrible means of offense at their disposal. They had employed poison gas on the largest scale and had invented the ‘Flammenwerfer.’ Nevertheless it was with a sense of awe that they turned upon Russia the most grisly of all weapons. They transported Lenin in a sealed truck like a plague bacillus from Switzerland into Russia.”

Winston S. Churchill
The World Crisis, Volume five.

That was before the civil war began. The Russian civil war occurred after the Bolshevik revolution when Lenin was already in power.

[Socialist Tera]

The Germans didn't support Lenin in the civil war....

"In the middle of April [1917] the Germans took a sombre decision. Ludendorff refers to it with bated breath. Full allowance must be made for the desperate stakes to which the German war leaders were already committed. They were in the mood which had opened unlimited submarine warfare with the certainty of bringing the United States into the war against them. Upon the Western front they had from the beginning used the most terrible means of offense at their disposal. They had employed poison gas on the largest scale and had invented the ‘Flammenwerfer.’ Nevertheless it was with a sense of awe that they turned upon Russia the most grisly of all weapons. They transported Lenin in a sealed truck like a plague bacillus from Switzerland into Russia.”

Winston S. Churchill
The World Crisis, Volume five.

The whites did worse.

Stop using fallacies.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque

You honestly think it was possible for it to be solved peacefully? If you were Lenin, what would of you done? Give them flowers?
Also, the Russian civil war happened in 1920.

[4years]

1. Stop being dictatorial revisionist who is apparently unfamiliar with communist and socialist literature.

2. When did I say that? Remind me.

You think Leninism is revisionism? AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

You do realize that I have provided documents written by Lenin was sources, correct? Including the article in the post you quoted when you called me a "utopianist"

The ones that say "V.I. Lenin" at the top? Lenin wrote them, get it?

[Luveria]

Stop using fallacies.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque

You honestly think it was possible for it to be solved peacefully? If you were Lenin, what would of you done? Give them flowers?

Irrelevant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

When you defend yourself by saying "you're doing it too", it's not a defence. It's a fallacy.

[Regnum Dominae]

1. Stop being dictatorial revisionist who is apparently unfamiliar with communist and socialist literature.

2. When did I say that? Remind me.

You think Leninism is revisionism? AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

Honest question from a non communist here: why the fuck does it matter what is "revisionist" and what isn't?

[Socialist Tera]

You think Leninism is revisionism? AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

Honest question from a non communist here: why the fuck does it matter what is "revisionist" and what isn't?

Revisionism caused the destruction of the Soviet Union, China and North Korea.

[Luveria]

That was before the civil war began. The Russian civil war occurred after the Bolshevik revolution when Lenin was already in power.

The point I was trying to make was that Lenin was at one time supported by capitalist Germany, so it means nothing saying the Whites were supported by the US.

[The New Lowlands]

Honest question from a non communist here: why the fuck does it matter what is "revisionist" and what isn't?

Revisionism caused the destruction of the Soviet Union, China and North Korea.

...No, it didn't.

[Socialist Tera]

You honestly think it was possible for it to be solved peacefully? If you were Lenin, what would of you done? Give them flowers?

Irrelevant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

When you defend yourself by saying "you're doing it too", it's not a defence. It's a fallacy.

So, you have no idea what practicality is. Good job.

[Luveria]

You think Leninism is revisionism? AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

Honest question from a non communist here: why the fuck does it matter what is "revisionist" and what isn't?

Because Socialist Tera thinks this is RevLeft where everyone gets into a drunken fistfight whenever someone accuses another of being "revisionist".

[Luveria]

Irrelevant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

When you defend yourself by saying "you're doing it too", it's not a defence. It's a fallacy.

So, you have no idea what practicality is. Good job.

Read your post.

So you are going to ignore all the atrocities carried out by the red army? And dont even get me started on Lenin s atrocities.

The whites did worse.

You have been defending your position with a fallacy. That makes your position invalid.

[4years]

You think Leninism is revisionism? AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

Honest question from a non communist here: why the fuck does it matter what is "revisionist" and what isn't?

Because Socialist Tera is appealing to theoretical purity in the tradition of Marx and Lenin and I am pointing out that his dictatorial tendencies are incompatible with Marxism and communism and that the theoretical tradition Socialist Tera appeals to stands for democracy.

If Socialist Tera admits to revisionism, much of his/her argument is destroyed and, as a Marxist, I will not allow the red flag to to sullied by the black stain of dictatorship as Socialist Tera advocates.

[Rio Cana]

1. Stop being a utopianist. 2. I guess you want a classless state after the first week of the revolution.

1. Stop being dictatorial revisionist who is apparently unfamiliar with communist and socialist literature.

2. When did I say that? Remind me.

Kind of off topic but has to do with Utopianism.

One of the nations that got close to being Utopian was Paraguay at independence. Its first President Jose Gaspar de Francia was a follower of the French revolution. To be more exact

Francia's policies and ideals perhaps most closely resembled those of François-Noël Babeuf, a French utopian who wanted to abolish private property and communalize land as a prelude to founding a "republic of equals."

Read this - http://countrystudies.us/paraguay/7.htm

then continue here
http://countrystudies.us/paraguay/8.htm

[Luveria]

1. The proletariat is ready for democracy.

2. *cough*Paris Commune*cough* Besides, socialism in the USSR ended with the NEP which Lenin acknowledged was capitalistic in nature.

Stop being a utopianist. I guess you want a classless state after the first week of the revolution.

No, 4years has been consistent about not expecting a classless state to happen anytime soon.

[Conscentia]

The topic is up there, you know.

[4years]

The topic is up there, you know.

Yes, we do seem to have strayed off topic....

Are we all agreed, or mostly agreed that the embargo is a bad thing and should be done away with?

[Luveria]

The topic is up there, you know.

Yes, we do seem to have strayed off topic....

Are we all agreed, or mostly agreed that the embargo is a bad thing and should be done away with?

Everyone except Hippo.

Then there are those who are being pragmatic about it, realizing that the US is in a position of power with the embargo, and because of that it's unrealistic for the US to end the embargo without Cuba easing up on political or economic restrictions in return.

Ending the embargo with no strings attached would be the US giving up something for nothing.

I would prefer the embargo was ended simply for the economic benefits the US and the Cuban people would receive, but I know it won't happen.

[Socialist Tera]

Honest question from a non communist here: why the fuck does it matter what is "revisionist" and what isn't?

Because Socialist Tera is appealing to theoretical purity in the tradition of Marx and Lenin and I am pointing out that his dictatorial tendencies are incompatible with Marxism and communism and that the theoretical tradition Socialist Tera appeals to stands for democracy.

If Socialist Tera admits to revisionism, much of his/her argument is destroyed and, as a Marxist, I will not allow the red flag to to sullied by the black stain of dictatorship as Socialist Tera advocates.

He actually believes that Marixst-Leninism is revisionism. He basically called Lenin and every other communist revolutionary leader of the 20th leader, a revisionist.

Yes, we do seem to have strayed off topic....

Are we all agreed, or mostly agreed that the embargo is a bad thing and should be done away with?

Everyone except Hippo.

Then there are those who are being pragmatic about it, realizing that US is in a position of power with the embargo, and because of that it's unrealistic for the US to end the embargo without Cuba easing up political or economic restrictions in return.

Ending the embargo with no strings attached would be the US giving up something for nothing.

I would prefer the embargo was ended simply for the economic benefits the US and the Cuban people would receive, but I know it won't happen.

Dictating other nations sovereignty is not the best way to deal in international politics.

[Estado Paulista]

Then there are those who are being pragmatic about it, realizing that US is in a position of power with the embargo, and because of that it's unrealistic for the US to end the embargo without Cuba easing up political or economic restrictions in return.

That's me, kind of.

[Luveria]

Everyone except Hippo.

Then there are those who are being pragmatic about it, realizing that US is in a position of power with the embargo, and because of that it's unrealistic for the US to end the embargo without Cuba easing up political or economic restrictions in return.

Ending the embargo with no strings attached would be the US giving up something for nothing.

I would prefer the embargo was ended simply for the economic benefits the US and the Cuban people would receive, but I know it won't happen.

Dictating other nations sovereignty is not the best way to deal in international politics.

It often is when dealing with rogue states like apartheid South Africa and North Korea.