Cuban Embargo

[Socialist Tera]

I deny them because they are not ready. You need to wait to make sure the bourgeoisie influence over the workers is gone. Lenin lead a revolution to build the first socialist state, I think that is commitment to communism.

His revolution also killed a ton of innocents.

Any revolution does that.

[Luveria]

Lenin was just like you.

Hostile to the thought of allowing the workers to have democracy. Neither you or Lenin are examples of a commitment to communism.

As 4years pointed out, democracy is an inherent part of socialism and communism. To reject democracy makes their strain of socialism a right-wing movement dedicated to protecting the interests of a privileged political class instead of being committed to equality which would be allowing every citizen to take part in the politics of their country. But no, you deny them that because you believe poor people are simply too stupid to be trusted with voting priviledges.

I deny them because they are not ready.

Sure they are.

They are apparently never ready because not one authoritarian socialist state has willingly allowed democracy.

You need to wait to make sure the bourgeoisie influence over the workers is gone.

No, I want your authoritarian influence over them to be gone. lets start by letting the workers vote for who they want vote for, and it's not going to be you they want to vote for as you've been insisting the workers are too stupid to be given democracy.

Lenin lead a revolution to build the first socialist state, I think that is commitment to communism.

That is a lie. The Paris Commune existed well before the USSR. Don't make up things.

And no, making a socialist state is not a commitment to communism.

[Luveria]

His revolution also killed a ton of innocents.

Any revolution does that.

Wrong.

Don't make up things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velvet_Revolution

[Luveria]

Aren't you familiar with Soviet propaganda grossly exaggerating the relationship between Lenin and Stalin?

I am aware with the cult of personality but a lot of Stalin's wrong doing and Lenin's criticism is often exaggerated by anti-stalinists and Trots.

No, I'm sorry, but reality and historical facts are biased against you on this one.

[Socialist Tera]

Any revolution does that.

Wrong.

Don't make up things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velvet_Revolution

I stand corrected.

Socialist Tera wrote:
Luveria wrote:

Aren't you familiar with Soviet propaganda grossly exaggerating the relationship between Lenin and Stalin?

I am aware with the cult of personality but a lot of Stalin's wrong doing and Lenin's criticism is often exaggerated by anti-stalinists and Trots.


No, I'm sorry, but reality and historical facts are biased against you on this one.

Read the Existentialist Stalin. It's based more on fact than whatever nonsense you read.

[YellowApple]

His revolution also killed a ton of innocents.

Any revolution does that.

Nope.

[The Scientific States]

His revolution also killed a ton of innocents.

Any revolution does that.

Most revolutions don't kill millions.

[The Scientific States]

Aren't you familiar with Soviet propaganda grossly exaggerating the relationship between Lenin and Stalin?

I am aware with the cult of personality but a lot of Stalin's wrong doing and Lenin's criticism is often exaggerated by anti-stalinists and Trots.

Not really. Open a history book.

[Regnum Dominae]

Aren't you familiar with Soviet propaganda grossly exaggerating the relationship between Lenin and Stalin?

I am aware with the cult of personality but a lot of Stalin's wrong doing and Lenin's criticism is often exaggerated by anti-stalinists and Trots.

Yep because the Holodomor, gulags, the purges, and the brutal crackdowns on resistance to collectivization are "exaggerated".

Once again, what if the workers don't want communism?

[Socialist Tera]

Any revolution does that.

Most revolutions don't kill millions.

You mean the civil war with the white army funded by the United States?

[Luveria]

Wrong.

Don't make up things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velvet_Revolution

I stand corrected.

Socialist Tera wrote:
Luveria wrote:

Aren't you familiar with Soviet propaganda grossly exaggerating the relationship between Lenin and Stalin?

I am aware with the cult of personality but a lot of Stalin's wrong doing and Lenin's criticism is often exaggerated by anti-stalinists and Trots.


No, I'm sorry, but reality and historical facts are biased against you on this one.

Read the Existentialist Stalin. It's based more on fact than whatever nonsense you read.

No, telling me to go read a book is not providing a source.

The nonsense I read is probably facts like historical accounts of the Holodomor.

[Estado Paulista]

Most revolutions don't kill millions.

You mean the civil war with the white army funded by the United States?

You do realize the White Army —and a lot of other factions in the civil war— enjoyed vast ammounts of popular support, right?

[Luveria]

Most revolutions don't kill millions.

You mean the civil war with the white army funded by the United States?

You mean the same civil war with Lenin having been supported by capitalist Germany?

I can play this game too.

[Socialist Tera]

I deny them because they are not ready.

Sure they are.

They are apparently never ready because not one authoritarian socialist state has willingly allowed democracy.

You need to wait to make sure the bourgeoisie influence over the workers is gone.

No, I want your authoritarian influence over them to be gone. lets start by letting the workers vote for who they want vote for, and it's not going to be you they want to vote for as you've been insisting the workers are too stupid to be given democracy.

Lenin lead a revolution to build the first socialist state, I think that is commitment to communism.

That is a lie. The Paris Commune existed well before the USSR. Don't make up things.

And no, making a socialist state is not a commitment to communism.

You might find this an interesting read about democracy: http://clogic.eserver.org/2005/furr.html

[4years]

Lenin was just like you.

Hostile to the thought of allowing the workers to have democracy. Neither you or Lenin are examples of a commitment to communism.

As 4years pointed out, democracy is an inherent part of socialism and communism. To reject democracy makes their strain of socialism a right-wing movement dedicated to protecting the interests of a privileged political class instead of being committed to equality which would be allowing every citizen to take part in the politics of their country. But no, you deny them that because you believe poor people are simply too stupid to be trusted with voting priviledges.

1. I deny them because they are not ready. You need to wait to make sure the bourgeoisie influence over the workers is gone. 2. Lenin lead a revolution to build the first socialist state, I think that is commitment to communism.

1. The proletariat is ready for democracy.

2. *cough*Paris Commune*cough* Besides, socialism in the USSR ended with the NEP which Lenin acknowledged was capitalistic in nature.

[The Scientific States]

Most revolutions don't kill millions.

You mean the civil war with the white army funded by the United States?

I'm not supporting the White Army.

Both armies were terrible.

[Socialist Tera]

You mean the civil war with the white army funded by the United States?

You do realize the White Army —and a lot of other factions in the civil war— enjoyed vast amounts of popular support, right?

Considering anti-antisemitism by the white army, I do not think it's that smart to mutter that phrase.

[4years]

You mean the civil war with the white army funded by the United States?

You mean the same civil war with Lenin having been supported by capitalist Germany?

I can play this game too.

The Germans didn't support Lenin in the civil war....

[Socialist Tera]

1. I deny them because they are not ready. You need to wait to make sure the bourgeoisie influence over the workers is gone. 2. Lenin lead a revolution to build the first socialist state, I think that is commitment to communism.

1. The proletariat is ready for democracy.

2. *cough*Paris Commune*cough* Besides, socialism in the USSR ended with the NEP which Lenin acknowledged was capitalistic in nature.

Stop being a utopianist. I guess you want a classless state after the first week of the revolution.

[Regnum Dominae]

You do realize the White Army —and a lot of other factions in the civil war— enjoyed vast amounts of popular support, right?

Considering anti-antisemitism by the white army, I do not think it's that smart to mutter that phrase.

So you are going to ignore all the atrocities carried out by the red army? And dont even get me started on Lenin s atrocities.

[Luveria]

You do realize the White Army —and a lot of other factions in the civil war— enjoyed vast amounts of popular support, right?

Considering anti-antisemitism by the white army, I do not think it's that smart to mutter that phrase.

Yeah, it's not like the USSR ever became anti-semitic...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_Soviet_Union

[The Scientific States]

1. The proletariat is ready for democracy.

2. *cough*Paris Commune*cough* Besides, socialism in the USSR ended with the NEP which Lenin acknowledged was capitalistic in nature.

Stop being a utopianist. I guess you want a classless state after the first week of the revolution.

That's better then creating a omnipresent, authoritarian state.

[Regnum Dominae]

1. The proletariat is ready for democracy.

2. *cough*Paris Commune*cough* Besides, socialism in the USSR ended with the NEP which Lenin acknowledged was capitalistic in nature.

Stop being a utopianist. I guess you want a classless state after the first week of the revolution.

Democracy is more imlortant than ideological purity.

[Estado Paulista]

You do realize the White Army —and a lot of other factions in the civil war— enjoyed vast amounts of popular support, right?

Considering anti-antisemitism by the white army, I do not think it's that smart to mutter that phrase.

Stating a historical fact isn't a particularly smart thing, but it helps people like you. Also, "it isn't smart to mutter" that the White Army was anti-antisemitic. You know, there were various ideologically opposed factions in the White Army. Some of them condoned anti-semitism, some of them endorsed it.

[Socialist Tera]

Considering anti-antisemitism by the white army, I do not think it's that smart to mutter that phrase.

So you are going to ignore all the atrocities carried out by the red army? And dont even get me started on Lenin s atrocities.

The whites did worse.