Cuban Embargo

[The Scientific States]

What if the workers don't want Marxism? This question has been asked many times, you believe that Marxism makes the workers happy, but should you use force to do this, even if many workers are opposed?

If you're acting in the interests of the worker, wouldn't you want to enact what they want?

In a nutshell: http://www.marxists.org/reference/archi ... /01/01.htm

I don't see how that helps your argument.

[Conscentia]

He wasn't a communist.

Read the Essentialist Stalin .

Stalin was a liar, an opportunist, and a man who's actions seem to indicate no desire to establish a communist society.

[Socialist Tera]

In a nutshell: http://www.marxists.org/reference/archi ... /01/01.htm

I don't see how that helps your argument.

The party leads the workers.

[Regnum Dominae]

I don't see how that helps your argument.

The party leads the workers.

What if the workers don't want communism?

[Luveria]

Luveria, I am going to have to stand with you on this one: 'Socialist' Tera forgets that democracy is a fundamental tenant of Marxism and communism and ignores that socialism without democracy is patently ridiculous. As Marx asserted, "democracy is the road to socialism." Democracy is the only legitimate form of government in the eyes of a Marxist who recalls that "All forms of the state have democracy for their truth, and for that reason are false to the extent that they are not democracy." (Karl Marx, Critique of Hegel’s Philosophy of Right). The any revision, no perversion not revision, of Marxism that rejects democracy miss the entire message of Marx and Engels and is a slap on the face to any actual Marxist.

So, you just called Stalin, not a communist.

Stalinism is fundamentally opposed to all three core goals of communism.

Luveria, I am going to have to stand with you on this one: 'Socialist' Tera forgets that democracy is a fundamental tenant of Marxism and communism and ignores that socialism without democracy is patently ridiculous. As Marx asserted, "democracy is the road to socialism." Democracy is the only legitimate form of government in the eyes of a Marxist who recalls that "All forms of the state have democracy for their truth, and for that reason are false to the extent that they are not democracy." (Karl Marx, Critique of Hegel’s Philosophy of Right). The any revision, no perversion not revision, of Marxism that rejects democracy miss the entire message of Marx and Engels and is a slap on the face to any actual Marxist.

I have to agree that this authoritarian wing of socialism does seem very far removed from the ideals of Marx.

[Estado Paulista]

I don't see how that helps your argument.

The party leads the workers.

And what if the workers don't want to be lead by the party?

[Luveria]

I don't see how that helps your argument.

The party leads the workers.

What if they don't want to be lead by a Marxist party?

[4years]

Stalinism and Marxism aren't the same thing. I can keep sourcing that forever, if you want me to.

I am an Orthodox Marxist-Leninist not a pure marxist.

That's funny because Lenin called for Stalin to lose his post.

[YellowApple]

Well, can it?

It can only be reached through the collaboration of the workers and the proletariant. The establishment of Marxist study groups are vital.

I have a feeling that your advocacy of stripping the workers' political voice will cause them to collaborate against Marxist ideals. Calling them stupid doesn't help win their support nearly as much as you seem to think it does.

[The Scientific States]

Stalinism and Marxism aren't the same thing. I can keep sourcing that forever, if you want me to.

I am an Orthodox Marxist-Leninist not a pure marxist.

Marxism Leninism shouldn't be considered a communist ideology, as it goes against most principles of communism.

[Socialist Tera]

So, you just called Stalin, not a communist.

Stalinism is fundamentally opposed to all three core goals of communism.

Luveria, I am going to have to stand with you on this one: 'Socialist' Tera forgets that democracy is a fundamental tenant of Marxism and communism and ignores that socialism without democracy is patently ridiculous. As Marx asserted, "democracy is the road to socialism." Democracy is the only legitimate form of government in the eyes of a Marxist who recalls that "All forms of the state have democracy for their truth, and for that reason are false to the extent that they are not democracy." (Karl Marx, Critique of Hegel’s Philosophy of Right). The any revision, no perversion not revision, of Marxism that rejects democracy miss the entire message of Marx and Engels and is a slap on the face to any actual Marxist.

I have to agree that this authoritarian wing of socialism does seem very far removed from the ideals of Marx.

Stalinism is basically a slightly more authoritarian version of marixst-leninism. If you say Stalin is not a communist neither is Lenin.

[Socialist Tera]

I am an Orthodox Marxist-Leninist not a pure marxist.

That's funny because Lenin called for Stalin to lose his post.

Lenin was terminally ill and was having mental problems at that stage.

[The Scientific States]

Stalinism is fundamentally opposed to all three core goals of communism.



I have to agree that this authoritarian wing of socialism does seem very far removed from the ideals of Marx.

Stalinism is basically a slightly more authoritarian version of marixst-leninism. If you say Stalin is not a communist neither is Lenin.

Lenin wasn't much of a communist either. He was a lot like you, he believed the workers were to stupid to make their own decisions.

[The Scientific States]

That's funny because Lenin called for Stalin to lose his post.

Lenin was terminally ill and was having mental problems at that stage.

That was in 1922...

And since when was he having mental problems?

[Socialist Tera]

Lenin was terminally ill and was having mental problems at that stage.

That was in 1922...

And since when was he having mental problems?

By 22, he was having problems due to he was terminally ill and he was incapable of making decisions. Stalin and him were good friends during the first 5 years.

[Luveria]

Stalinism is fundamentally opposed to all three core goals of communism.



I have to agree that this authoritarian wing of socialism does seem very far removed from the ideals of Marx.

Stalinism is basically a slightly more authoritarian version of marixst-leninism. If you say Stalin is not a communist neither is Lenin.

Lenin was just like you.

Hostile to the thought of allowing the workers to have democracy. Neither you or Lenin are examples of a commitment to communism.

As 4years pointed out, democracy is an inherent part of socialism and communism. To reject democracy makes their strain of socialism a right-wing movement dedicated to protecting the interests of a privileged political class instead of being committed to equality which would be allowing every citizen to take part in the politics of their country. But no, you deny them that because you believe poor people are simply too stupid to be trusted with voting priviledges.

[The Scientific States]

That was in 1922...

And since when was he having mental problems?

By 22, he was having problems due to he was terminally ill and he was incapable of making decisions. Stalin and him were good friends during the first 5 years.

Source?

And that last part was true, but Stalin stabbed him in the back. Stalin stabbed communism in the back.

He was a bastard.

[4years]

Lenin was terminally ill and was having mental problems at that stage.

That was in 1922...

And since when was he having mental problems?

I imagine that Lenin calling Stalin a "nationalist-socialist", and even a vulgar Great-Russian bully was also a product of those mysterious 'mental problems'?

Also, am I to take it that Lenin's democratic leanings as expressed in The State and Revolution and Khrushchev's criticism of Stalin were the products of 'fevered brains' or some such?

[Luveria]

By 22, he was having problems due to he was terminally ill and he was incapable of making decisions. Stalin and him were good friends during the first 5 years.

Source?

Aren't you familiar with Soviet propaganda grossly exaggerating the relationship between Lenin and Stalin?

[The Scientific States]

Source?

Aren't you familiar with Soviet propaganda grossly exaggerating the relationship between Lenin and Stalin?

Propaganda? Do you oppose the state?!

Into the gulag with you!

[Socialist Tera]

Stalinism is basically a slightly more authoritarian version of marixst-leninism. If you say Stalin is not a communist neither is Lenin.

Lenin was just like you.

Hostile to the thought of allowing the workers to have democracy. Neither you or Lenin are examples of a commitment to communism.

As 4years pointed out, democracy is an inherent part of socialism and communism. To reject democracy makes their strain of socialism a right-wing movement dedicated to protecting the interests of a privileged political class instead of being committed to equality which would be allowing every citizen to take part in the politics of their country. But no, you deny them that because you believe poor people are simply too stupid to be trusted with voting priviledges.

I deny them because they are not ready. You need to wait to make sure the bourgeoisie influence over the workers is gone. Lenin lead a revolution to build the first socialist state, I think that is commitment to communism.

[Estado Paulista]

Lenin was just like you.

Hostile to the thought of allowing the workers to have democracy. Neither you or Lenin are examples of a commitment to communism.

As 4years pointed out, democracy is an inherent part of socialism and communism. To reject democracy makes their strain of socialism a right-wing movement dedicated to protecting the interests of a privileged political class instead of being committed to equality which would be allowing every citizen to take part in the politics of their country. But no, you deny them that because you believe poor people are simply too stupid to be trusted with voting priviledges.

I deny them because they are not ready. You need to wait to make sure the bourgeoisie influence over the workers is gone. Lenin lead a revolution to build the first socialist state, I think that is commitment to communism.

Socialism =/= communism.

[The Scientific States]

I deny them because they are not ready. You need to wait to make sure the bourgeoisie influence over the workers is gone. Lenin lead a revolution to build the first socialist state, I think that is commitment to communism.

Socialism =/= communism.

Indeed.

Soviet Russia was far from communist.

[The Scientific States]

Lenin was just like you.

Hostile to the thought of allowing the workers to have democracy. Neither you or Lenin are examples of a commitment to communism.

As 4years pointed out, democracy is an inherent part of socialism and communism. To reject democracy makes their strain of socialism a right-wing movement dedicated to protecting the interests of a privileged political class instead of being committed to equality which would be allowing every citizen to take part in the politics of their country. But no, you deny them that because you believe poor people are simply too stupid to be trusted with voting priviledges.

I deny them because they are not ready. You need to wait to make sure the bourgeoisie influence over the workers is gone. Lenin lead a revolution to build the first socialist state, I think that is commitment to communism.

His revolution also killed a ton of innocents.

[Socialist Tera]

Source?

Aren't you familiar with Soviet propaganda grossly exaggerating the relationship between Lenin and Stalin?

I am aware with the cult of personality but a lot of Stalin's wrong doing and Lenin's criticism is often exaggerated by anti-stalinists and Trots.