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Texas EduBoard won't put creationism in textbooks, after all

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Conscentia
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Postby Conscentia » Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:20 pm

European Socialist Republic wrote:
Conscentia wrote:I've always liked one of the African creation myths - a god vomited up the Earth.

In the beginning, Mbombo was alone, and darkness and water covered the earth. It would happen that Mbombo came to feel an intense pain in his stomach, and then Mbombo vomited the sun, the moon, and stars. The heat and light from the sun evaporated the water covering the earth, creating clouds, and after time, the dry hills emerged from the water. Then Mbombo vomited once more, bringing forth nine animals: the leopard, called Koy Bumba; the eagle, Ponga Bumba; the crocodile, Ganda Bumba; the fish, Yo Bumba; the tortoise, Kono Bumba; a black leopard-like animal, Tsetse Bumba; a white heron, Nyanyi Bumba; a scarab; and a goat named Budi. Mbombo also vomited many men, one of them was called Loko Yima.

These nine animals went on to create all the world's creatures. The heron created all flying birds but one, the kite, and the crocodile created snakes and the iguana. The goat, Budi, brought forth all the horned animals, the scarab all insects, and Yo Bumba, all fish.

Three of Mbombo's sons then said they would finish creating the world. The first to try, Nyonye Ngana, vomited white ants, but died after. To honor him, the ants went deep in the earth for dark soil to bury him and transformed the barren sands at the earth's surface. The second, Chonganda, created the first plant, which in turn gave rise to all trees, grasses and flowers. And Chedi Bumba, the third son, made the last bird, the kite.

Tsetse Bumba caused trouble on the earth so Mbombo chased him into the sky where he became the thunderbolt. This left people without fire, so Mbombo showed them how to make it from trees. Once the creation was complete and peaceful, Mbombo delivered it to mankind and retreated into the heavens, leaving Loko Yima to serve as "god upon the earth".

Teach the controversy!

One of the best creation stories ever, yes? :)

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Individuality-ness
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Postby Individuality-ness » Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:20 pm

Riiser-Larsen wrote:
Independent Canterbury wrote:Not at all.

A Catholic Theocrat would not be Creationist.
Nor would a Anglican.
Nor would a Lutheran Christian.

Explain that to me?

The Catholic Church accepts evolution for example.
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Pandeeria
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Postby Pandeeria » Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:20 pm

Andeer wrote:
Pandeeria wrote:
So why are you using an alternate account? Also nice that you pretty much ignored that you were being Trollish, insulting, and off-topic.

because I happened to be logged in on this one, and it was ignored for the hypocrisy


Yes, because obviously I was trolling and insulting you in that post. And obviously I was off topic, that is the reason why I was arguing about the topic on-hand.

Hurdegaryp wrote:
Pandeeria wrote:In your signature you're for Conservatism and even Theocracy!

So you're religious and want god in the government, but you believe in evolution, huh?

Maybe this newcomer is just lying. I've been told such things happen on the internet.

He obviously is.
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Independent Canterbury
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Postby Independent Canterbury » Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:20 pm

Riiser-Larsen wrote:
Independent Canterbury wrote:Not at all.

A Catholic Theocrat would not be Creationist.
Nor would a Anglican.
Nor would a Lutheran Christian.

Explain that to me?

Because the Official position of these 3 denominations is that Evolution is correct. :palm:
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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:21 pm

Snafturi wrote:
Conscentia wrote:I heard that the Earth grew from a seed, or hatched from a cosmic egg.

No, the earth was created by accident by the wizards.


And life by The Great Wizzard (with two zs) when he dropped an egg sandwich during timetravel.

Seriously. Why is all this not required reading and do people pretend evolution and creationism are the only two ideas people ever had ? The false dichotomy greatly aids the creationists of course, so their reason is obvious, by why do people go along with it ?
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Riiser-Larsen
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Postby Riiser-Larsen » Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:21 pm

Individuality-ness wrote:
Riiser-Larsen wrote:Explain that to me?

The Catholic Church accepts evolution for example.

Not all Catholic Theocracies are copies of the Catholic Church. Besides, the Church is more of an organization than an actual government.
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The Emerald Dawn wrote:I'm pretty tired of discussing serious issues in a serious manner with people who are so divorced from reality that the marriage was not only annulled, any historical records or witnesses to the original marriage were drawn, quartered, burnt, and then boiled in acid and served to hogs.

Thafoo wrote:So I guess leaving a negative environmental footprint now makes you a killer?

This just in: all cows are Hitlers. McDonald's releases the Heilburger.

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Hurdegaryp
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Postby Hurdegaryp » Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:21 pm

European Socialist Republic wrote:
Hurdegaryp wrote:Do you have a link that can guide me towards that creation myth? I am not familiar with it, but it sounds like the BEST creation myth! We are all vomit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mbombo

Thanks! Let it not be said that I do not appreciate mythology. You wouldn't believe the references to engorged and throbbing penises in the Old Testament, for example. That's some real hardcore action there, blessed by God Himself. He always likes to watch. Always.
Pandeeria wrote:
The Scientific States wrote:
Just because he's conservative, it doesn't mean he's a creationist.

He's a theocrat.

I don't know about you, but Theocrats are generally creationist if you ask me.

It's pretty much inevitable, since theocrats are fundamentalists are creationists.
CVT Temp wrote:I mean, we can actually create a mathematical definition for evolution in terms of the evolutionary algorithm and then write code to deal with abstract instances of evolution, which basically equates to mathematical proof that evolution works. All that remains is to show that biological systems replicate in such a way as to satisfy the minimal criteria required for evolution to apply to them, something which has already been adequately shown time and again. At this point, we've pretty much proven that not only can evolution happen, it pretty much must happen since it's basically impossible to prevent it from happening.

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Riiser-Larsen
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Postby Riiser-Larsen » Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:22 pm

Independent Canterbury wrote:
Riiser-Larsen wrote:Explain that to me?

Because the Official position of these 3 denominations is that Evolution is correct. :palm:

Official does not mean that every single member of that group feels the same way. Officially the United States is a republic, does that mean that every single person in the United States automatically agrees that it is a republic, and orients their life around that fact? No, some of them don't even know that it's a republic.
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The Emerald Dawn wrote:I'm pretty tired of discussing serious issues in a serious manner with people who are so divorced from reality that the marriage was not only annulled, any historical records or witnesses to the original marriage were drawn, quartered, burnt, and then boiled in acid and served to hogs.

Thafoo wrote:So I guess leaving a negative environmental footprint now makes you a killer?

This just in: all cows are Hitlers. McDonald's releases the Heilburger.

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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:22 pm

Hurdegaryp wrote:
European Socialist Republic wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mbombo

Thanks! Let it not be said that I do not appreciate mythology. You wouldn't believe the references to engorged and throbbing penises in the Old Testament, for example. That's some real hardcore action there, blessed by God Himself. He always likes to watch. Always.


The ancient Egyptian porn is better ;) It tells us where the term "woody" comes from :P
(and the creation of the universe through masturbation).
Last edited by The Alma Mater on Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Ainin
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Postby Ainin » Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:23 pm

Excellent.
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Hayabusa
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Postby Hayabusa » Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:24 pm

Seal of approval for you, Texas.
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Hurdegaryp
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Postby Hurdegaryp » Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:24 pm

Conscentia wrote:
European Socialist Republic wrote:
In the beginning, Mbombo was alone, and darkness and water covered the earth. It would happen that Mbombo came to feel an intense pain in his stomach, and then Mbombo vomited the sun, the moon, and stars. The heat and light from the sun evaporated the water covering the earth, creating clouds, and after time, the dry hills emerged from the water. Then Mbombo vomited once more, bringing forth nine animals: the leopard, called Koy Bumba; the eagle, Ponga Bumba; the crocodile, Ganda Bumba; the fish, Yo Bumba; the tortoise, Kono Bumba; a black leopard-like animal, Tsetse Bumba; a white heron, Nyanyi Bumba; a scarab; and a goat named Budi. Mbombo also vomited many men, one of them was called Loko Yima.

These nine animals went on to create all the world's creatures. The heron created all flying birds but one, the kite, and the crocodile created snakes and the iguana. The goat, Budi, brought forth all the horned animals, the scarab all insects, and Yo Bumba, all fish.

Three of Mbombo's sons then said they would finish creating the world. The first to try, Nyonye Ngana, vomited white ants, but died after. To honor him, the ants went deep in the earth for dark soil to bury him and transformed the barren sands at the earth's surface. The second, Chonganda, created the first plant, which in turn gave rise to all trees, grasses and flowers. And Chedi Bumba, the third son, made the last bird, the kite.

Tsetse Bumba caused trouble on the earth so Mbombo chased him into the sky where he became the thunderbolt. This left people without fire, so Mbombo showed them how to make it from trees. Once the creation was complete and peaceful, Mbombo delivered it to mankind and retreated into the heavens, leaving Loko Yima to serve as "god upon the earth".

Teach the controversy!

One of the best creation stories ever, yes? :)

Oh, absolutely. It's certainly better than that tripe in Genesis which was shamelessly stolen from (polytheistic) Mesopotamian mythology.
CVT Temp wrote:I mean, we can actually create a mathematical definition for evolution in terms of the evolutionary algorithm and then write code to deal with abstract instances of evolution, which basically equates to mathematical proof that evolution works. All that remains is to show that biological systems replicate in such a way as to satisfy the minimal criteria required for evolution to apply to them, something which has already been adequately shown time and again. At this point, we've pretty much proven that not only can evolution happen, it pretty much must happen since it's basically impossible to prevent it from happening.

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Individuality-ness
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Postby Individuality-ness » Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:25 pm

Riiser-Larsen wrote:
Individuality-ness wrote:The Catholic Church accepts evolution for example.

Not all Catholic Theocracies are copies of the Catholic Church. Besides, the Church is more of an organization than an actual government.

Aware of the former; one of my RP worlds (in development) hinges on that concept.

The Catholic Church is an organization, yes, but the Vatican is also considered a (I think) semiautonomous state. Diplomatic missions and all.
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New Zreuche
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Postby New Zreuche » Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:25 pm

Regnum Dominae wrote:Three months ago, creationists began a crusade to remove science from science textbooks by forcing creationism to be taught as an equally valid alternative to evolution. Because Texas is such a large state, textbook publishers often publish textbooks nationwide according to Texas standards, meaning that in a worst case scenario we could have ended up with creationism being taught as science not just in Texas, but throughout the US.

Luckily, the creationists have failed.

A panel of experts has rejected concerns by religious conservatives in Texas that a high school biology textbook contained factual errors about evolution and a state board approved the book on Wednesday for use in public schools.

The debate over the Pearson Biology textbook was the latest episode of a lengthy battle by evangelicals in Texas to insert Christian and Biblical teachings into public school textbooks.

Two years ago, conservatives pushed for changes in history textbooks, including one that would have downplayed Thomas Jefferson's role in American history for his support of the separation of church and state. That effort was unsuccessful.

The second-most populous U.S. state, Texas influences textbook selections for schools nationwide.
In the case of the biology book, an unidentified volunteer reviewer complained to the Texas State Board of Education that it presents evolution as scientific fact rather than a theory, which conflicts with the creation story written in the Book of Genesis in the Bible.

The reviewer concluded that the text, which includes lessons on natural selection and the Earth's cooling process, are errors that needed to be corrected by publisher Pearson Education, one of the nation's largest producers of school textbooks and a unit of Pearson Plc.

The opinion caused the board to delay approval of the textbook and appoint a three-member panel of science experts to analyze the book's lessons and report any factual mistakes.

"The professors didn't recommend any changes so the book is now approved," Texas Education Agency spokeswoman Debbie Ratcliffe said in an email. "Schools can purchase it this spring for use in the fall."

Until the expert panel ruled, Pearson was not able to market its book as approved by the board to school districts in Texas.

The state's more than 1,000 public school districts are permitted to order their own books and materials, but most follow the state-approved list.

Source: http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12 ... board-says


Frankly, considering the overwhelming evidence, I think it's a damn shame that it the Texas Board of Education actually spent three whole months seriously considering this, instead of throwing out this proposal as soon as it reached their desks. However, it's good to see that it ultimately failed, and we won't be seeing children taught a religious creation myth as science in Texas, or even worse, across the United States. This is a huge relief to those of us who care about quality education and the separation of religion and science.

Your thoughts, NSG?


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The Scientific States
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Postby The Scientific States » Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:26 pm

Hayabusa wrote:Seal of approval for you, Texas.


Let's not go that far.

They did one good thing, they've done many bad things, they still have my seal of disapproval.
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Riiser-Larsen
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Postby Riiser-Larsen » Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:28 pm

Individuality-ness wrote:
Riiser-Larsen wrote:Not all Catholic Theocracies are copies of the Catholic Church. Besides, the Church is more of an organization than an actual government.

Aware of the former; one of my RP worlds (in development) hinges on that concept.

The Catholic Church is an organization, yes, but the Vatican is also considered a (I think) semiautonomous state. Diplomatic missions and all.

True. At the same time, the actions of the Vatican and the actions of the Catholic Church do not go hand in hand. Also, the Churches opinion on secular topics changes depending on the current Pope. We currently have a very liberal pope, thus the Churches actions are rather liberal.
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The Emerald Dawn wrote:I'm pretty tired of discussing serious issues in a serious manner with people who are so divorced from reality that the marriage was not only annulled, any historical records or witnesses to the original marriage were drawn, quartered, burnt, and then boiled in acid and served to hogs.

Thafoo wrote:So I guess leaving a negative environmental footprint now makes you a killer?

This just in: all cows are Hitlers. McDonald's releases the Heilburger.

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Hurdegaryp
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Postby Hurdegaryp » Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:28 pm

The Alma Mater wrote:
Hurdegaryp wrote:Thanks! Let it not be said that I do not appreciate mythology. You wouldn't believe the references to engorged and throbbing penises in the Old Testament, for example. That's some real hardcore action there, blessed by God Himself. He always likes to watch. Always.

The ancient Egyptian porn is better ;) It tells us where the term "woody" comes from :P
(and the creation of the universe through masturbation).

And orgasm brought forth the universe. We're not stardust, we're spunk!
CVT Temp wrote:I mean, we can actually create a mathematical definition for evolution in terms of the evolutionary algorithm and then write code to deal with abstract instances of evolution, which basically equates to mathematical proof that evolution works. All that remains is to show that biological systems replicate in such a way as to satisfy the minimal criteria required for evolution to apply to them, something which has already been adequately shown time and again. At this point, we've pretty much proven that not only can evolution happen, it pretty much must happen since it's basically impossible to prevent it from happening.

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Magna Libero
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Postby Magna Libero » Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:29 pm

Pandeeria wrote:
Magna Libero wrote:Illogical things? Scientific method?
Lol. Basic philosophy and common sense, but I just wanted to point that out. (Just because your system says that 2+2=4 does not exclude the possibility of an other system being 2+2=5 . Simply explained.)


2 + 2 = 4

That is logical. Anything else is illogical.

Perhaps logical to you, but not 100% absolute true, since there is an improbable chance that someone not from our known planet or isolated from our modern world would use a system such as 3+3=8.
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Individuality-ness
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Postby Individuality-ness » Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:29 pm

Riiser-Larsen wrote:
Individuality-ness wrote:Aware of the former; one of my RP worlds (in development) hinges on that concept.

The Catholic Church is an organization, yes, but the Vatican is also considered a (I think) semiautonomous state. Diplomatic missions and all.

True. At the same time, the actions of the Vatican and the actions of the Catholic Church do not go hand in hand. Also, the Churches opinion on secular topics changes depending on the current Pope. We currently have a very liberal pope, thus the Churches actions are rather liberal.

I've noticed.
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Postby Ifreann » Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:30 pm

Magna Libero wrote:
Pandeeria wrote:


2 + 2 = 4

That is logical. Anything else is illogical.

Perhaps logical to you, but not 100% absolute true, since there is an improbable chance that someone not from our known planet or isolated from our modern world would use a system such as 3+3=8.

Mathematics. Another thing you don't understand.

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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:30 pm

Hurdegaryp wrote:
The Alma Mater wrote:The ancient Egyptian porn is better ;) It tells us where the term "woody" comes from :P
(and the creation of the universe through masturbation).

And orgasm brought forth the universe. We're not stardust, we're spunk!


Quite literally according to the Egyptians, indeed ;)

And since their tale is much older than the Bible, it is also closer to the actual event ;)
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Regnum Dominae
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Postby Regnum Dominae » Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:36 pm

Magna Libero wrote:
Pandeeria wrote:


2 + 2 = 4

That is logical. Anything else is illogical.

Perhaps logical to you, but not 100% absolute true, since there is an improbable chance that someone not from our known planet or isolated from our modern world would use a system such as 3+3=8.

And they'd be wrong. Two plus two is self evidently four.

Please tell me that this isn't the same old "facts are subjective" nonsense.
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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:37 pm

Regnum Dominae wrote:
Magna Libero wrote:Perhaps logical to you, but not 100% absolute true, since there is an improbable chance that someone not from our known planet or isolated from our modern world would use a system such as 3+3=8.

And they'd be wrong. Two plus two is self evidently four.


Not necessarily in all bases ;)
But then it is simply a matter of conversion. The actual math would be the same.
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Magna Libero
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Postby Magna Libero » Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:37 pm

Ifreann wrote:
Magna Libero wrote:Perhaps logical to you, but not 100% absolute true, since there is an improbable chance that someone not from our known planet or isolated from our modern world would use a system such as 3+3=8.

Mathematics. Another thing you don't understand.

Okay, you didn't understand. I'm either very bad at explaining, because I put too much (or too little) information for you to grasp in a few sentences - or what you just said was a joke.
Last edited by Magna Libero on Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Conscentia
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Postby Conscentia » Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:37 pm

Magna Libero wrote:
Pandeeria wrote:
2 + 2 = 4
That is logical. Anything else is illogical.

Perhaps logical to you, but not 100% absolute true, since there is an improbable chance that someone not from our known planet or isolated from our modern world would use a system such as 3+3=8.

Principia Mathematica disagrees.

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