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Your thoughts on communism?

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Senatus Populusque Lundensis
Secretary
 
Posts: 33
Founded: Nov 06, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Senatus Populusque Lundensis » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:50 pm

Duvniask wrote:
Senatus Populusque Lundensis wrote:The thing is, socialism isn't even nice in theory. It might seem like it is at first glance, but it is not.

For you.

True. I should have added a "in my opinion". I do, however, believe that most people who have commented "it is nice in theory" would agree with me if they thought more about it.
Socialism is all about equality above everything else. I have nothing against equality,

While important, absolute equality is not central to socialist thought.

Why on earth would one want to abolish private property and exterminate social classes if not for equality?
but (true) socialist are prepared to step over dead bodies to get there.

Clearly not.

Right. I should have said communism. My bad.
Another problem is that many socialists try to claim equality and charity as something unique to them -- worse still, they sometimes succeed.

Generalizing much?

Perhaps, but this is based on my perception of the political climate in Sweden. And I did say "many", not "all".

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New Socialist South Africa
Minister
 
Posts: 3406
Founded: Aug 31, 2013
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby New Socialist South Africa » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:50 pm

Unitaristic Regions wrote:
New Socialist South Africa wrote:
No sorry you are wrong. Socialism requires the workers to control the means of production, Democratic Socialism seeks to create a strong welfare, education and / or healthcare state with high amounts of state intervention and usually quite high taxes (particularly for the rich and for big businesses), but the bourgeoisie still control the means of production (they just have to be much cleverer, luckier, wealthier or more ruthless to survive and prosper). As the bourgeoisie and not the workers control the means of production under Democratic Socialism, it is actually just a leftist form of Capitalism.


Sorry, but I disagree. You're talking about social democracy here :).


From what I know, democratic socialism and social democracy are very similar. Wikipedia is my only source here so don't quote me on that. :lol:
"I find that offensive" is never a sound counter argument.
"Men in general are quick to believe that which they wish to be true." - Gaius Julius Caesar
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Unitaristic Regions
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5019
Founded: Apr 15, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Unitaristic Regions » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:51 pm

Clone Creatures wrote:
Unitaristic Regions wrote:
Guns defend liberty?

...

What the-


Thomas Jefferson said guns should be enshrined in every home. Quigley said that the only time liberty has ever existed is when the people where armed and armed with weapons equal to the military.

If you understand Washingtons plan than you understand that it is the local militia who are armed with the weapons of war, and these would be your own kids who would serve locally. In this way control over the sword of the nation is maintained by the people themselves.

The people need to be armed but in a responsible way. This has been removed, as well as the knowledge of how it was once accomplished.


Jefferson also thought we should own slaves. Really, he's a tad outdated.

Sorry, wrong Founding Father. Still, he lived in a somewhat earlier time :).
Last edited by Unitaristic Regions on Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Used to be a straight-edge orthodox communist, now I'm de facto a state-capitalist who dislikes migration and hopes automation will bring socialism under proper conditions.

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Tengria
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Posts: 16
Founded: Aug 07, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Tengria » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:51 pm

Unitaristic Regions wrote:Depends on what breed of socialism. Look, I'm a socialist, because I think it's the best way for the individual to grow, learn and critizice. I don't think the collective matters so much, actually, I care about fairness and honest individualism.

Yes, having the state control everything and decide what everyone deserves is totally fair. They know better, right?

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The Scientific States
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Posts: 18643
Founded: Apr 29, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Scientific States » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:51 pm

Kronstad wrote:
Duvniask wrote:
2. This is what social democracy has evolved to.

1. Wikipedia isn't a credible source; I or you or anyone else can go and edit Wikipedia now and then link their writings
2. this is how some interpret social democracy


It's how most interpret social democracy.
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The Scientific States
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Founded: Apr 29, 2013
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Postby The Scientific States » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:51 pm

New Socialist South Africa wrote:
Unitaristic Regions wrote:
Sorry, but I disagree. You're talking about social democracy here :).


From what I know, democratic socialism and social democracy are very similar. Wikipedia is my only source here so don't quote me on that. :lol:


They used to be, however the "modern definition" of social democracy is more capitalist.
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Clone Creatures
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Posts: 83
Founded: Dec 10, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Clone Creatures » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:52 pm

Kronstad wrote:
Duvniask wrote:
2. This is what social democracy has evolved to.

1. Wikipedia isn't a credible source; I or you or anyone else can go and edit Wikipedia now and then link their writings
2. this is how some interpret social democracy


Wikipedia is plenty credible, especially when it comes to stuff like this. Millions look at it, and what isn't right is corrected almost immediately. It isn't like you can just go and post any old thing ya know.

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Unitaristic Regions
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Founded: Apr 15, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Unitaristic Regions » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:52 pm

Tengria wrote:
Unitaristic Regions wrote:Depends on what breed of socialism. Look, I'm a socialist, because I think it's the best way for the individual to grow, learn and critizice. I don't think the collective matters so much, actually, I care about fairness and honest individualism.

Yes, having the state control everything and decide what everyone deserves is totally fair. They know better, right?


You know nothing about socialism if you think it's about state ownership.
Used to be a straight-edge orthodox communist, now I'm de facto a state-capitalist who dislikes migration and hopes automation will bring socialism under proper conditions.

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Driving Fast
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Posts: 25
Founded: Mar 18, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Driving Fast » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:52 pm

Commies are a bunch of teens who don't know about any other form of government
If you want a free, happy, region to reside in, try need for speed.

DRIVE FAST OR DON'T DRIVE!

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The Time Alliance
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10635
Founded: Aug 16, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Time Alliance » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:53 pm

Driving Fast wrote:Commies are a bunch of teens who don't know about any other form of government

You don't know a thing about Communism do you?

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Clone Creatures
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Posts: 83
Founded: Dec 10, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Clone Creatures » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:54 pm

The Scientific States wrote:
New Socialist South Africa wrote:
From what I know, democratic socialism and social democracy are very similar. Wikipedia is my only source here so don't quote me on that. :lol:


They used to be, however the "modern definition" of social democracy is more capitalist.


Social democracy? Look you're inventing terminology.

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Kronstad
Envoy
 
Posts: 337
Founded: Apr 24, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Kronstad » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:54 pm

New Laikland wrote:
Kronstad wrote:1. good joke
2. indeed, compared to capitalism, socialism surely is unfair, for 134 people having over $1 billion (2 of whom have around about over $50 billion every year, Bill Gates and Carlos Slim) is more fair 7 billion having money
3. in communism, all work for the same things and they share them; you need to search "steal" and "share" in a dictionary


1. Oh? I just provided links above why;
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/communism
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism
2. I wish we had wealth equality like North Korea! Dear Leader is just as wealthy as every person! Those guys worked for their wealth, they earned it.
3. See above.

1. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/communism "c : a final stage of society in Marxist theory in which the state has withered away and economic goods are distributed equitably"
2. I never endorsed North Korea's leader; further, I have posted earlier that I disagree with communism in practice, after the USSR and China. Of course, reading is difficult...
3. I see above that you (still) don't understand the difference between "sharing" and "stealing"

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Tengria
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Posts: 16
Founded: Aug 07, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Tengria » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:54 pm

Unitaristic Regions wrote:You know nothing about socialism if you think it's about state ownership.

So you're not in favor of a socialist regime?
Last edited by Tengria on Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The Scientific States
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Posts: 18643
Founded: Apr 29, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Scientific States » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:54 pm

Driving Fast wrote:Commies are a bunch of teens who don't know about any other form of government

I'm not a communist, but you clearly don't know what you're talking about.
Centrist, Ordoliberal, Bisexual, Agnostic, Pro Social Market Economy, Pro Labour Union, Secular Humanist, Cautious Optimist, Pro LGBT, Pro Marijuana Legalization, Pro Humanitarian Intervention etc etc.
Compass
Economic Left/Right: 0.88
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Political Stuff I Wrote
Why Pinochet and Allende were both terrible
The UKIP: A Bad Choice for Britain
Why South Africa is in a sorry state, and how it can be fixed.
Massive List of My OOC Pros and Cons
Hey, Putin! Leave Ukraine Alone!

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Unitaristic Regions
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Posts: 5019
Founded: Apr 15, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Unitaristic Regions » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:54 pm

Clone Creatures wrote:
The Scientific States wrote:
They used to be, however the "modern definition" of social democracy is more capitalist.


Social democracy? Look you're inventing terminology.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy
Used to be a straight-edge orthodox communist, now I'm de facto a state-capitalist who dislikes migration and hopes automation will bring socialism under proper conditions.

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Estado Paulista
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Posts: 5791
Founded: Sep 06, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Estado Paulista » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:54 pm

Hetalian Indie Rio de Janeiro wrote:
Estado Paulista wrote:And I told you why Uruguay votes for the left, so your argument is invalid.

I don't even remember my point anymore.


:palm:
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Unitaristic Regions
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Founded: Apr 15, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Unitaristic Regions » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:55 pm

Tengria wrote:
Unitaristic Regions wrote:You know nothing about socialism if you think it's about state ownership.

So you're not in favor of a socialist regime?


If I was, my political compass would be a tad more authoritarian, wouldn't you agree? :p
Last edited by Unitaristic Regions on Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Used to be a straight-edge orthodox communist, now I'm de facto a state-capitalist who dislikes migration and hopes automation will bring socialism under proper conditions.

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New Socialist South Africa
Minister
 
Posts: 3406
Founded: Aug 31, 2013
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby New Socialist South Africa » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:55 pm

The Scientific States wrote:
New Socialist South Africa wrote:
From what I know, democratic socialism and social democracy are very similar. Wikipedia is my only source here so don't quote me on that. :lol:


They used to be, however the "modern definition" of social democracy is more capitalist.


You mean even more capitalist. Democratic socialism and social democracy are both leftist forms of capitalism.
"I find that offensive" is never a sound counter argument.
"Men in general are quick to believe that which they wish to be true." - Gaius Julius Caesar
"I'm for truth, no matter who tells it. I'm for justice, no matter who it's for or against." - Malcolm X
"The soul of a nation can be seen in the way it treats its children" - Nelson Mandela
The wealth of humanity should be determined by that of the poorest individual.

"What makes a man

Strength enough to build a home
Time enough to hold a child
and Love enough to break a heart".

Terry Pratchett


Olthar wrote:Anyone who buys "x-ray specs" expecting them to be real deserves to lose their money.

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The Scientific States
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18643
Founded: Apr 29, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Scientific States » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:56 pm

Clone Creatures wrote:
The Scientific States wrote:
They used to be, however the "modern definition" of social democracy is more capitalist.


Social democracy? Look you're inventing terminology.


I'm inventing new terminology? :roll:

Most people perceive social democracy as mildy capitalist, and most social democratic parties around the world are fairly centrist.
Last edited by The Scientific States on Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Centrist, Ordoliberal, Bisexual, Agnostic, Pro Social Market Economy, Pro Labour Union, Secular Humanist, Cautious Optimist, Pro LGBT, Pro Marijuana Legalization, Pro Humanitarian Intervention etc etc.
Compass
Economic Left/Right: 0.88
Social Liberal/Authoritarian: -6.62
Political Stuff I Wrote
Why Pinochet and Allende were both terrible
The UKIP: A Bad Choice for Britain
Why South Africa is in a sorry state, and how it can be fixed.
Massive List of My OOC Pros and Cons
Hey, Putin! Leave Ukraine Alone!

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Esternial
Technical Moderator
 
Posts: 54369
Founded: May 09, 2009
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Esternial » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:56 pm

A nice pipe dream for the idealist.

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Aeken
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17135
Founded: Feb 12, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Aeken » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:56 pm

Clone Creatures wrote:
The Scientific States wrote:
They used to be, however the "modern definition" of social democracy is more capitalist.


Social democracy? Look you're inventing terminology.

Someone isn't thinking....

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Kronstad
Envoy
 
Posts: 337
Founded: Apr 24, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Kronstad » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:56 pm

Clone Creatures wrote:
Kronstad wrote:Wikipedia is plenty credible, especially when it comes to stuff like this. Millions look at it, and what isn't right is corrected almost immediately. It isn't like you can just go and post any old thing ya know.

That's a logical fallacy, actually, called argumentum ad populum. Clearly for you though, the fact that millions have never read Hegel, Marx, Lenin or Trotsky means their interpretations of social democracy or socialism are perfect.

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Unitaristic Regions
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Posts: 5019
Founded: Apr 15, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Unitaristic Regions » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:56 pm

New Socialist South Africa wrote:
The Scientific States wrote:
They used to be, however the "modern definition" of social democracy is more capitalist.


You mean even more capitalist. Democratic socialism and social democracy are both leftist forms of capitalism.


Sorry, no.
Used to be a straight-edge orthodox communist, now I'm de facto a state-capitalist who dislikes migration and hopes automation will bring socialism under proper conditions.

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Clone Creatures
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Posts: 83
Founded: Dec 10, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Clone Creatures » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:56 pm

Unitaristic Regions wrote:
Clone Creatures wrote:
Social democracy? Look you're inventing terminology.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy


As opposed to what? Fascist Democracy?

OK I looked at it and it's BS I've never heard of anywhere. Looks like crap invented by corporate black ops, but
then again we are still speaking about communism aren't we?
Last edited by Clone Creatures on Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Unitaristic Regions
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Founded: Apr 15, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Unitaristic Regions » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:58 pm

Clone Creatures wrote:


as opposed to what? Fascist Democracy?


Why should I know? I just wanted to point out that he wasn't inventing anything.
Used to be a straight-edge orthodox communist, now I'm de facto a state-capitalist who dislikes migration and hopes automation will bring socialism under proper conditions.

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